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Slash Fanfic Discussion

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Taure, Sep 26, 2021.

  1. Gengar

    Gengar Degenerate Shrimp –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Whole lot of missing the point going around apparently.
     
  2. darklordmike

    darklordmike Headmaster

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    Lol yep. I'm sorry for the role I played in it. At this point, everybody's accusing everybody else of being narrow-minded and deliberately obtuse, when the whole point of Taure's thread was to create a distinction to avoid that.
     
  3. Lindsey

    Lindsey Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I am not talking about the HP fandom. Nor am I talking about about all fanfic writers who are still writing. I am talking about Generation Z's entry into the fanfiction community. While slash has been popular since the 80s and 90s, it has grown considerably in the last five years and now dominates several fandoms. I'd even make a bet that there have been more HP slash fics being published in the last two years than het pairings but not by much. They still won't make up the HP majority for a long time due the sheer amount of HP works out there.

    Moreover, I am including non-binary people in the LGBT community, which has exploded in the last couple years. Hell, just recently my old high school did a poll and 70% of the students said they were LGBT or non-binary. The younger generations coming into the fandom are far more likely to be LGBT than not.
    Perhaps HP is the exception then. HP seems to attract more men than most other major series outside ASOIAF.

    This is exactly what I meant. You had very few real famous female authors until the mid to late 90s outside of romance. Now you are seeing countless books, of all different genres, written by women and becoming successful. Don't get me wrong, it's still a majority of men in many genres but it's been changing and will continue to do so imo.

    Here is a great representation until 2015: https://pudding.cool/2017/06/best-sellers/
     
  4. Download

    Download Professor ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I can only assume wilful misunderstanding at this point.
     
  5. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti Professor

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    At least in Ao3 out of 113 643 works in Harry Potter - J. K. Rowling -fandom updated since 1st Jan 2020, 47 446 of them have been marked M/M, it being the largest category by incrediby narrow margin (F/M containing 47 435 works). Most used relationship tags are Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter with 17 086 counts and Sirius Black/Remus Lupin with 11 614. Following them are Hermione/Draco with 8 075 and the first canon pairing, James/Lily at 7 927. Hermione/Ron and Harry/Ginny follow with 6 274 and 5 190, respectively, with Harry/Snape and Harry/Tom Riddle coming after with 2 883 and 2 545 counts. Rounding up the top 10 are Hermione/Harry (2 294) and Hermone/Snape (2 245).
     
  6. moribund_helix

    moribund_helix First Year

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    Yeah. with "mentally stimulating" I meant to be truthfully fully engaged with the work because it's actually telling you something.

    You'd have to read a good book or two, or maybe three to know. If you honestly believe that world-class literature and average Joe's fanfiction story (or even good fanfiction stories) are comparable in any way whatsoever, then I really can't help you.

    That's all off topic though. On topic, I still maintain that a clear distinction between "I, as a reader, am not into that stuff because I'm limited in this way" and "the story is bad because it's badly written" is needed. As it stands now in the OP it reads a bit as though it's the story's fault if the reader is self-inserting himself and can't enjoy the story otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  7. Hansar

    Hansar First Year

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    No, I haven't. I care about the story, not what the author is trying to tell me through the story. I have a deep emotional connection to Lord of the Rings, but how could I possibly relate anything that happens in it to myself? I've never experienced anything like what happens in the book and none of the characters are anything like me. I've never been at war and had it leave me a hollow shell of my former self. I've never been faced with the temptation of using evil means to achieve good ends. If industrialization destroying nature didn't cause global warming, I wouldn't give a damn. I've never had a friend 1/100th as good as Sam and I'm not sure if I even want one but I'm still moved by the friendship between him and Frodo.

    I love the story but it doesn't mean anything to me. I learned nothing from reading it, it didn't make me think about anything it was saying and it had zero impact on how I chose to live my life. I read it for purposes of entertainment and that's what I got from it, that's the only reason I consume any kind of media.

    I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. There are not that many LGBT people, unless bisexual now includes people who are willing to acknowledge that someone of their gender is attractive, or if the bar for being non-binary is a man who's not against wearing nail polish. I'm Generation Z (admittedly one of oldest) and my school year had 180 people in it and there were, to the best of my knowledge, two gay kids. My school wasn't a hostile environment to that kind of thing, there weren't over a hundred more people who were still in the closet.

    There's nothing intrinsic to fanfiction that will attract the LGBT community. It might provide a good outlet to LGBT people who are still coming to terms with their identity and sharing their work among online communities will bring in a bigger audience of LGBT fanfic authors and readers than straight people who learn about the concept by stumbling across a decent fanfic. However, the majority of slash have always been, and will always be, written by straight cis women, just like how the majority of wanky harem power fantasies will always be written by straight cis men.
    Every story is telling you something. The Very Hungry Caterpillar is telling you something. It's educating you on the butterfly's lifecycle and warning you about the dangers of binge eating. Millions of children have been gripped by this compelling narrative for decades.
    Well, perhaps you could help me by giving the names of these works of world-class literature and tell of what profound truths of the human condition they taught you.
     
  8. soczab

    soczab Professor

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    Interesting post! I would say this is the part I disagree with. Not to be all like meta here (if that's the right terminology lol). But while on a surface level you don't relate to hobbits and magic rings or even environmentalism, thats a somewhat simplistic viewing of the book imo.

    A lot of times, what you are relating to is a lot deeper. Like you said you have a deep emotional connection to LOTR (as do I). Why?

    There is something the author did there that connected to something in yourself. Like you went so far as to say a "deep emotional connection." That clearly means something in the story is resonating with you, right?

    Like to take me personally (also a huge LOTR fan). Part of my love of the series is it has an emotional resonance to a specific time in my life.

    Part of it is i love history and lore in real life, and so I relate to that in the books.

    Part of it is just I love epic heroic battles. Something about those sort of figures and actions rings a bell to me, so I connect via that.

    Part of it is maybe connecting and relating to a desire to escape my world for a fantasy world.

    And so on.

    So I agree with you fully in terms of the direct surface level relation, but I do think in a good book there is a deeper level and the very fact that you are describing it as a deep emotional connection makes me think that something the author did formed a connection even if it is not the obvious surface experience of going on a magic quest lol!

    I suppose the key is, what the author is trying to tell you is not just the obvious plot. The ENTIRE WORLD is the author telling you. If you emotionally connected to it, then something the author was trying to tell you resonated, even if it wasn't the actual plot say.


    Also you've got great taste in books!
     
  9. Eimim

    Eimim First Year

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    If you're sincere in your question, perhaps you wont mind if I jump in here to answer this as well.

    The Gulag Archipelago trilogy is non fiction, but genuinely immersing and life changing to read. If you can get through those without learning anything about yourself, I'd be amazed.

    If your question is only applicable to fiction, The Man Whose Teeth Were All Exactly Alike by Philip K. Dick is a short read. As far as I know it's his only non scifi book, but just like all his books, it's packed full with characters that confront the reader with the absurdity off everyday human behavior. I'm only recommending this book above his other ones because perhaps the lack of shiny scifi will help you to look at the 'lessons' you usually disregard.
     
  10. Lindsey

    Lindsey Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    LGBT stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans. It's also been expanded to include queer, questioning, intersex, asexual, and agender. While my high school is probably an exception on the numbers (because of living in a very liberal area, being 'woke' and self reporting), most studies say that LGBTQIA rates for Gen Z are between 25% and 50%. The numbers vary as many of the Gen Z generation are still in middle and high school and aren't being polled as often compared to older Gen Z members. Now, a good portion of these numbers are probably made up of bisexual members, but it's probably these same members writing slash fanfic. Fanfiction has always been a safe space for minorities-- it shouldn't be surprising that it has higher rates of LGBT and other minorities compared to the general population too.

    My point stands though, Gen Z has increased the amount of slash being posted by a decent amount and will continue to do so as they age up, especially as more and more millennials leave fanfiction.
     
  11. Hansar

    Hansar First Year

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    I think beyond just nostalgia for the series and me being emotionally effected by it being habits formed when I was younger and less emotionally stunted, I think a lot of my love for it comes from the comfortableness of the experience of going through the books. There's no real awkward interpersonal drama or cringy romance, I don't feel the need to question the characters actions or details of the world and the story's well crafted enough that all the great moments land with me correctly.

    Lord of the Rings has no negatives attached to it for me. I can just happily be an outside observer and go along for the ride. There might be some deeper reasons behind it, but I don't think I have the introspective skill to figure them out.

    I just don't agree with your conclusion that more teenagers identifying as LGBT+ means they're writing more slash fics because of it. Testamentary said that he found them weird and fetishistic. I thought it was universally agreed that slash was the woman's answer to lesbian porn, I don't think many of them are being written by gay or bisexual boys as a form of exploration.

    I think this new deluge of slash fics is being caused by fanfiction becoming more and more well-known and accepted by the mainstream. I discovered fanfic's less than a decade ago and had no idea they were even a thing beforehand. These days I think most people know about their existence and that's brought a higher number of enthusiastic amateurs who are slash inclined. The non-slash writers might find fanfiction earlier but I think most did find it in the end, so there's less of an influx of them.
     
  12. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Yoda Admin

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    Coming late to the thread and reading through now several walls of text, I think you guys are talking past each other a lot more than you imagine you are. If you're trying to be understood, make your post direct and it'll be hard to be mistaken.
     
  13. AlbusPHolmes

    AlbusPHolmes The Alchemist

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    Meh, this isn't directed at you at all @Silirt , especially since I don't know what you do and do not strictly read, but I remember in past threads on this issue of slash fics, several people echoed the same point that they wouldn't read slash fics with a gay Harry, gay Sirius, gay Lupin, etc, because it was out of character.

    Except those people gladly wrote and rec'ced fics with lesbian characters confirmed to be straight in canon. They wrote murderous characters confirmed to be lawful good in canon. They wholeheartedly rec'ced Dark Lord Potter stories. I could go on.

    The OOC argument has always baffled me. It's fanfiction. Almost by definition of OOC much of fanfic features OOC characters, locales, plots, etc. So if you'll gleefully read Bellatrix slobbing over Harry's dick, but Lupin snogging Sirius under the moonlight is OOC, then your real issue isn't the presence of OOC elements. It's the presence of gayness as an OOC element.

    Canon straight characters being written as gay in slashfics doesn't even begin to register as OOC in my books because of how fluid sexuality is for some people. I thought I was straight till 18. Loved girls, crushed on girls, hardcore envisioned married life with my chemistry class crush lol. It wasn't till 18 that attraction to guys even blipped on the radar. At 29 now I'm pretty happily bi.

    If someone doesn't want to be deemed homophobic for abhorring slash fics, just the rejoinder shouldn't be because it's OOC. It should be because it's a trash fic because the writing is terrible, or there is no plot, etc. If a slash element is the only dealbreaker in what would otherwise be a very readable fic, then...

    It goes without saying most slashfics are barely readable.

    Again, not directed at you @Silirt. Mostly just used your comment as a vehicle.
     
  14. Silirt

    Silirt Minister of Magic DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I understand; I'm aware some people will gladly read one kind of homosexuality and not the other and then they use inconsistent arguments to justify their preferences, which they believe to require justification. It's pointless at multiple stages and that's kind of what makes it funny to me. There are people who have clicked on threads on the internet to express their preferences on sexuality in Harry Potter fanfiction and leave argumentative comment threads a mile long with some other idiot addicted to a different kind of smut. You'll notice how I'm not saying this is objectively funny; my sense of humor is kind of ruined by a decade of nearly constant internet use.
    A word about OOC- I read the first three books of Prince of Slytherin and while I can't say it's efficient, it's entertaining. The author decided to just do whatever he wanted with the characters, was upfront about it, and what he did worked. Hats off. Similarly, I'm sure there are stories that have compelling narratives and interesting characters despite having godawful grammar. Thing is, it's the exception and not the rule. I'm willing to bet the most likely reason that someone writes with bad grammar is not particularly caring and I'm willing to bet the most likely reason someone writes, I don't know, Snape, to be a real stand-up guy, is thirsty wish fulfillment. Not caring and thirst are not ingredients for good stories, and that is why I close the tab without a second thought. I've noticed, for other people, the simple presence of Harry Potter or a character with that name is perfectly necessary and all other stories are boring and stupid or something. OOC works as a filtration keyword for me, and not having Harry works as a filtration keyword for them.
     
  15. oakes

    oakes Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Ah, tbh I don't read female slash either generally speaking. At the end of the day when a fic is slash it's %99 of the time it's slash for the sake of being slash and it's mostly romance / comfort / hurt focus. Which is quite out of my usual habits regardless even when it's straight. Also the way the writing is done is quite jarring as well.
     
  16. Garden

    Garden Supreme Mugwump

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    I'm straight but would read Slash fics if they didn't come with completely unrealistic male characters. Lots of angst, a focus on emotion over action, etc. are not my interest in fanfiction. Seems like the vast majority of the time, slash is written by female authors and effectively features stereotypically female characters in male characters. I don't want a fic filled with angsty Harry or Naruto. Not my interest.

    Not sure I've found more than a half dozen slash fics over years that are good and don't fall into those traps.

    So my instinct at this point is to assume "slash fics tend to suck".
     
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