Do you think anyone finding and destroying the things had a chance of killing V before the prophecy was uttered?

Or did they all lack the "power of love"?

 

I have always been in the minority, believing that the profecy (or is it profesy?) is only a guideline of the most likely ending, and that someone with sufficient power could go against the prophecy. Of course, on may have to deal with the "power" behind the profecy, may it be MAgic itself, or...

 

I agree with Lord Ravenclaw, however before the prophecy was made, yes I think he could have been killed by others.

 

i look at the prophecy that way: a seer can penetrate the future only to a certain degree with her visions, this however doesn't mean that another seer couldn't have predicted the same thing sooner, so harry was meant to be the one who can kill voldemort before the prophecy was made, even before he was born
anyway, that doesn't mean that it was impossible to kill voldemort before, rather that the ones that had the means to do so didn't for whatever reason (e.g. dumbledore, because he abhors killing) and so the real content of the prophecy is that a child will be born that has 1. the means to kill voldemort and 2. the determination and intent to do this

 

I think that once a prophesy is given, nothing can go against it. In fact, even before the prophesy is given, nothing can go against it, as it's still the future, it just hasn't been discovered yet.

I don't think prophesies are rules that are laid down i.e. it's not a rule says Harry is the only one capable of killing Voldemort, it's a vision to the future says that Harry is going to be the only one who tries to (and then leaves the ending open, otherwise the 7th book wouldn't sell as well).

 

I think we're defining the situation too strictly to begin with. Prophecies are only ever clear after they've been fulfilled. It's part of why so many are self-fulfilling, and/or vague in their meaning.

Sure Voldemort could have been killed. It's my belief he could still be killed by anyone. Were that to happen, the prophecy would shift and wait for the next "Dark Lord" who "marks" someone born at the end of July. They rarely have any certainties, nor do they ever expire. Although the second prophecy about rejoining his Master, was far more clear and indicative. But considering it was only hours away from coming true... who knows.

The belief that it is this Dark Lord and Harry is the one with the power to vanquish him, is the first unsubstantiated jump you have to make to believe in their semi-immortality.

If in the end, Voldemort hasn't been killed by anyone until either he or Harry dies at the hand of the other, then we can interpret to mean he couldn't have been killed. But still it's just a hindsight interpretation.

 

Hindsight is 20-20, but isnt a prophesy supposed to give you a glimpse into the possible future.

Lets look at it this way, Lord Voldemort would not have been killable by anyone, even before the prophesy, because he made those Horcruxes.

I do believe that Dumbledore wasn't aware of those, and it only came to his attention when Harry destroyed the Diary.

He then started researching the possible ways in which Tom Riddle could have created that diary, and he came to the conclusion of Horcruxes.

Plural, cause the second prophesy did infact indicate that LV wasnt gone forever.

It was Harry again who weaseled out the information about the possible count of 7 pieces (6 Horcruxes + LV) out of Slughorn.

Dumbledore had to die, I knew this after a couple of chapters of reading HBP. He could not continue to act as the main proponent of LV's downfall. He had to secede the task, it is Harry's job according to the prophesy to bring about LV's downfall, or die trying.

And as such a prophesy becomes self-fulfilling.

I am still a bit unclear about "neither can live, while the other survives"...

Does it mean that live as in "being alive and not just living" kind of way?

"One has to die at the hands of the other"... it does not necessarily mean that the act of killing has to be done by LV or Harry themselves, it could mean that, their actions lead to the downfall or death of the other. They alone played the major role in doing so.

Anyone killing Harry would be at the bidding of LV, and Harry destroying the majority of the Horcruxes and leaving LV in a position to be killed by anyone, could be contrived to say "at the hands of the other".

my two cents...

 

Vold probably could of had his soul removed from his body, but not destroyed, since his Horocruxes would of still done their job. Harry being the "one" to kill vold, which the prophecy speaks of is important, like Dumble said he was given the tools by Vold and certain ability's in order to acomplish the task. Nobody even knew about the Horocruxes untill Harry unknowingly destroyed the diary, one of his own (R.A.B knew), but he probably is dead and gone after only getting 1 of 6 peices of his soul, Lucious wasn't aware of how valuable that diary was, so we can assume nobody else knew about soul splitting, and thus Vold was invincible untill the prophecy was made.

Even if people did know of the Horocruxes, I don't believe anybody could of destroyed them, since the most poweful wizard only got 1 of the 6 before dieing. The enchantments that guard horocruxes have something to do with Harry's "gifts" that Vold gave him. I believe this because that is the only thing that seperates Harry from Joe Blow. Only skill we know Harry was given is Parslemouth is it possible their may be more? I really don't see love being the all encomposing power to destroy vold, as I feel 3 horcruxes and 1 missing are going to require talent, knowledge, power, and perhaps agility. Love may be the the nail in the coffin for vold, but disloyalty, and retribution from certain Death eaters are also going to play a role.

Edit: My post is similiar to coupdmain, as we were both thinking along the same lines, and typeing at around the same time.

 

So, taking all this into consideration, are we to believe that in JK's universe Fate controls the lives of men?

after all, it doesn't just state they could kill each other, it also says only Harry can kill Voldemort (while everyone else is capable of killing Harry), and that one of them will die at each other's hand, that they'll be forced to duke it out!

A couple thousand years ago, there were prophecies made by priests in Delphos, and even back then people knew they were scams, why would anyone believe this in the first place? Was Voldemort that scared of prophecies?

He certainly doesn't look like it now.

 

I think it was possible, and that it is still possible for him to be killed by someone other than Harry. Because I do not think that the prophecy is binding but rather self-fulfilling, a la MacBeth.
Dumbledore believes in it, so he does not try to kill Voldemort. Voldemort believes he is threatened by the one mentioned in the prophesy, so he goes out to kill him, resulting in him being marked as an equal.
If neither had heard the prophesy, things would have gone differently...

 

Harry probably can die by someone else's hand, but Vold has declared it a taboo to harm Harry one reason he is still untouched, this is in part is becaues of the prophecy. Notice Death Eaters won't kidnap or kill Harry on Vold's orders, so the only person that can harm Harry is Vold because he want's to have the privledge himself. In book 4 Harry dueled Vold and Vold said leave him to me even when he was losing in the priori incantantem. He wants to prove to his followers he is all powerful by killing Harry himself.

 

It is my belief that before the prophecy was made so could anyone have killed voldy but once the prophecy was made so was it only harry that could kill him.

Another question is, was the prophecy made at random or was it made so that a wizard would be created that could kill voldy?

 

Good point. But what kind of force or power reveals these prophecies to humans? And what are the chances that seemingly random prophecies are uttered in the presence of people who are directky or indirectly affected by them?

 

It all depends on what a prophesy really is though, doesn't it. It's possible that the prophesy is, from the moment stated, unbeatable, and the future must play out as it states, or whether it is not a rule but merely a guideline that can be ignored if one wishes to. Personally, before the prophesy singled out one person, i think it probably was possible for someone else to kill him, if they had the power and ability. After the prophesy was heard and believed by the one man who probably had enough power to kill Voldemort, it became true simply down to Dumbledore's unwillingness to act himself. Not so much Self-fulfilling but a forced fulfillment. I think that someone else could still kill him, if Harry wasn't one of the very few people to know about the horcruxes.