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What does DLP feel about Canon Harry?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alexx, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    I've read most of the fics in the Library and most of their Harry's aren't really much similar to Canon Harry. But Dumbledore, Snape etc the main characters are pretty much their canon self. So why is that?
     
  2. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I only speak for myself, not for DLP, but let me ramble for a minute. I might also paraphrase myself from here.

    Canon!Harry was, first and foremost, an average kid who got caught up in events because of a prophesy. He was not particularly smart, driven, powerful, or anything else. He never got properly motivated to become those things and, by the time he might have taken it seriously, he was on the run.

    His best characteristics were his willingness to take action, his bravery, a bit of determination, and a willingness to die for his friends ("love"). Those are good characteristics, and a little realistic.

    But reading about a Harry like that would get old really fast, so many authors give him some motivation, make him powerful (or at least able to become powerful).

    I went into Harry Potter expecting a typical hero-type story after the first four books (I picked up the series after GoF but before OotP). I expected Harry to saddle up, get good at magic, get motivated, and generally learn how to not suck at everything. But he never did - he was in the middle of a war and still struggling to cast spells in 6th year classes. It took me a long time to realize that that was part of the point — Harry Potter is a story about an average boy who was inexplicably targeted by a terrorist (because of a prophecy) when really he's not worth being a blip on Voldemort's radar.

    But a lot of authors choose to take a more typical, pro-active, hero path for Harry.

    There's something to be said for both.

    Also, Potter Law seems relevant to link here.
     
  3. yak

    yak Moderator DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    I started reading Harry Potter at the same point as Cheddar did and expected the same things.

    I came to dislike the direction of the series though. Harry never improved, he did not earn or deserve his victory. He won by deus-ex-machina, that is to say: the author cheated to have him win.

    I think that's a big part of DLP's dissatisfaction with the series and the reason why we tend to alter Harry's character.
     
  4. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    Potter Law is always relevant. I never minded Harry that much, but I just felt the story lacked interesting character development. I mean, even when Death Eaters were out to take over the magical world of Britain, kill him and all his friends and enslave/kill all muggleborns, he was still unwilling to kill them even in self-defense.

    Probably why I didn't like Deathly hallows all that much.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Canon Harry is a great character for a certain kind of fic, and that kind of fic can be great. RustyRed's Ectomancer is the ultimate canon Harry fic: action adventure with mystery elements, involving Harry picking up unusual, interesting and powerful magic through hands-on trial-by-fire learning, and showcasing all of Harry's best qualities: his ability to deal with stressful situations, to think under pressure, to survive against the odds, to never give up, to improvise, and to make canny conclusions with thin evidence.

    It's for that reason that Ectomancer is, in my opinion, the best fic in the fandom by quite a long way. It really is exactly what canon should have been: the character is clearly canon Harry, but the situations he finds himself in force him into the role of a hero more. It continues the series in the spirit of PoA, which was easily the best book in the HP series (ironically, the one with the least Voldemort).

    However, for other types of fic - e.g. war leader Harry, Dumbledore's successor genius Harry - canon Harry just isn't up for the job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  6. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I need to re-read Ectomancer with that in mind.
     
  7. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    I'm in the minority that thinks canon Harry is best Harry.
     
  8. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I don't think there is a "best" Harry. There's something to be said for every kind of protagonist Harry can feasibly be, including canon. Maybe even especially canon.

    But I do think that Rowling fumbled books 6&7.
     
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Master of Death

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    The Harry from books 1 to 4 was great. He not only felt like a real person, but you felt inpired by him. He didn't dwell in self pity or wangsting, he didn't took thing in a stride, but he never got stuck with anything. He grew up, and had his funny moments, his rage moments and idiot ball moments. He felt real, but also someone you would follow and befriend, and above all, trust unconditionally.

    Then came book 5 and angst, so much angst. 6 and obsessions and more angst. And book 7, despite the sacrifice scene being nice, it felt hollow, like it was duty to him. And in the end, we got a epilogue that showed us a complete mundane and boring Harry.

    The other main problem isn't the missing power up, is the fact that while the war scalated, Harry role just got smaller, because he couldn't rise up to the situation anymore, he didn't get more creative or genry savvy, it seemed like he got stuck.

    I love Harry from books 1-4, as the best young hero protagonist in a book I've ever read. The Harry from 5-7, not so much, not so much by far.
     
  10. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    I always start off with canon Harry. Start with the familiar, so the reader can connect, then slowly mold him into what you need to be, even if it's just extrapolating upon his normal qualities, and sculpting him for the new challenges ahead. Lots of writers change Harry for no reason, like making him omgsuperuberawesome when the actual story didn't need it. canon harry has a lot of potential, and in canon, we never really see what he really can do.
     
  11. kostigan

    kostigan Temporarily Banhammered

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    I don't think DLP simply hates canon Harry. If that were the case there would be no DLP.

    Harry from books 1-4 is a likable guy with a potential to be great in some way, to develop as a person and as a wizard. He's the ultimate underdog, mistreated, scrawny kid with glasses that somehow always defies the odds and comes up victorious. Self-sacrificing, loyal, modest, generaly a good person. People like protagonists with whom they can identify themselves in a way. That's one reason why JKR is a billionaire and why HP fanfiction is so popular.

    The thing is, that can only get you so far. That whole transition from kid to adult was really badly executed in canon. If you start from canon Harry you should aim to, gradually, turn him into something different.
     
  12. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I like Harry from all the canonical books, even if I think he reached his peak in my subjective like of him in book 4. I can also relate to him in a lot of ways, as kostigan mentioned. But that being sad, every time I write a story about Harry, I always put in mind as a starting point the canon Harry, who I recognize and understand, and let him be changed by circumstances in the most natural way I can handle to the best of my abilities. It can be fun to read the alternate versions of Harry, but when they don't start from the same place, it's more like reading a 13-year old boy's "this is how Star Wars should be".

    For example, Harry is attracted to women and plenty are attracted to him, but he's not a ladies' man. Part of this is the whole "socially awkward" aspect of his character and part is how teenagers don't know crap about anything. Yet it seems like there's a lot of wish fulfillment stories out there that have Harry being unbelievably well purposed to banging broads. Hard to believe.

    That being said, I get it. It's fun to read, but it gets tiresome. But that's when the real fun begins. That's when you can get... interesting.
     
  13. tragicmat1

    tragicmat1 Death Eater

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    Honestly, here's my opinion. I like to read about Harry, he's the protagonist. It's why 98% of HP fics I read are ALL Harry-centric.

    With Harry-centric down, there's two ways to go about changing the story. One is to change his character directly in the beginning, the other is to change his environment and let that affect him. Either way, usually his base character will change. To have different events happen but have the character be the same is usually pretty poor writing. Yet, not having different events wouldn't be called fanfiction anymore, but rather a rehash.

    Also, in the end, every writer's writing style is different. Once any fic gets to a decent amount of length, it's pretty impossible to keep to the "canon" Harry, though writers can try their best to keep it close.
     
  14. Rache

    Rache Headmaster

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    I feel that Voldemort was robbed of his rightful throne and victory by Harry Potter. But hey, nobody asked him to steal the Elder Wand and get killed by his own spell.

    While the initial character development of little Harry was very good, it gradually gave place to an angsty bitchy teenager too lazy to do anything. Fandom authors and fans call Ron a slacker and lazy, but duh, Harry is one too.

    So, prefer a well portrayed fanon Harry to his canon counterpart.
     
  15. R. Daneel Olivaw

    R. Daneel Olivaw Groundskeeper

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    When I first read Philosopher's Stone I thought Rowling was going to do a series about an average kid and that he would stay average. But after the first book where it took the combined strengths of his friends to overcome the odds, Harry became the Chosen One. Sure, he still got help from his friends, but he was still the basilisk slayer, dementor defeater, Triwizard Champion, Banisher of Voldemort, DA Leader, etc., etc., etc.

    He got further and further away from the mild mannered little boy in the cupboard and more and more became Clark Kent: Superboy with a pack of sidekicks. Not that he ever got strong enough to win against the Big Bad in a straight fight, but it was still the story of the classic Greek hero facing off against a god he shouldn't win against (but still would by virtue of him being the hero).

    I would have liked it more if he hadn't been made out to be so exceptional by the end and if the help he got was not so circumstantial.

    I like various fanon!Harry for completely different reasons.
     
  16. Snarf

    Snarf Squanchin' Party Bro! ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Canon Harry was a jock. He took the easy electives, concentrated any time he could onto Quidditch, acted without thought and dreamed of dating the prettiest girl in school. His dark past and celebrity were all that kept him from true mediocrity. If that hadn't caught up with him year after year, I truly believe that Harry would have passed his OWLs with maybe a single Exceeds Expectations and been recruited as a star seeker for some Quidditch team that next year.
     
  17. Idiot Rocker

    Idiot Rocker Auror

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    Like most of the other people, I was quite fond of Harry during the early part of the series. Unlike many here I actually thoroughly enjoyed OotP. I felt like book number five was a turning point for the character. Harry goes through some pretty serious stuff, culminating in Sirius' death. When I read book 5 I saw it as a wake up call. It was going to be the moment where Harry began to step up. I saw the angst as a point of juxtaposition. If book 5 was going to be angsty, it would make Harry's burgeoning productivity in book 6 all the sweeter. Then HBP came out and even now I can only remember a few things about it (bathroom fight, Dumbledore, Slughorn's party?).

    Canon Harry is a good kid who can think on his feet, will do anything for his friends, and knows how to inspire people. I just wish he'd applied some of that outside of life and death situations.
     
  18. Ravnius

    Ravnius Auror

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    Quite honestly, if I met Harry during my tenure at school, I probably wouldn't have thought much of him. He seems, to me, to be one of those kids who is likable, bright, and a general good guy. But dammit, he just doesn't do anything with it! I'd probably think well of him, but I doubt I'd want to associate too much.

    People with some of my flaws always make me uneasy. I prefer to seek out friends who have flaws in different areas so that we compensate for each other.

    Back to the point: I like the guy as a person, but I don't think much of him as a student. When you add in the constant fear (4th year onwards) of violent murder by a Hitler-esque psychopath... Yeah. I'd have studied hard, if only to have a ghost of a chance at saving my own cowardly hide.
     
  19. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    Harry is not a slacker.

    Year 3: He spent half the year learning the Patronus Charm
    Year 4: He trained himself whole year for the tournament
    Year 5: He trained again whole year with the DA
    Year 6: He improved himself in potions and was learning new useful spells from HBP book

    Harry is not like Ron at all.
     
  20. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Okay. I don't disagree with you completely, since I don't really think Harry is a slacker so much as your average kid.

    I like canon!Harry for the most part.

    But your examples of why Harry is not a slacker failed to impress me.
     
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