1. Another story competition is beginning! (Q1 2018)

    "You're bleeding on my floor."

    We've moved to a quarterly format, so you really have no excuse not to participate this time.

    So check out the new thread discussing scoring, rules, and other such matters in the in the Story Competitions forum and get cracking.

    Dismiss Notice

Can you apparate or make a portkey to a location you see via legilimency or pensieve memory?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Reiku, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,223
    Location:
    Hbg., Germany
    Dude, I don't have the patience to quote your own posts to you. It starts in post #4 in the Hogsmeade thread, continues in post #6, and has nothing to do with any death eaters. Ask someone else, maybe they will.

    And the last sentence -- that's amazing. You managed to find some odd side point even there? No, that was obviously not what I meant. I can't think of a different way to phrase it, though, so I'll leave it to anyone else who wants to try.


    Canon Fact: Average wizards can apparate over several hundred kilometres safely, to places they haven't been. And if you disagree with this, ask yourself why anyone would consider it a "canon fact". The answer is in this thread -- multiple times.
     
  2. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    High Score:
    0
    Hallucinating and incoherent...

    1) Dumbledore had overcome most of the effects of the potion by the time he saved Harry from the inferi.
    2) Only a few minutes later, Dumbledore realized the Dark Mark hung over Hogwarts and decided to go to the school with renewed resolve, so he couldn't have been THAT out of it immediately before.
    3) The "heretofore unseen and unexplained piece of magic to help Harry do something he'd already learned" you refer to is called Side-Along Apparition...
    4) Seventh book:
    As he turned into darkness he caught one last view of the drawing room of the pale, frozen figures of
    Narcissa and Draco, of the streak of red that was Ron’s hair, and a blue of flying silver, as Bellatrix’s
    knife flew across the room at the place where he was vanishing –

    Bill and Fleur’s . . . Shell Cottage . . . Bill and Fleur’s . . .

    He had disappeared into the unknown; all he could do was repeat the name of the destination and hope
    that it would suffice to take him there. The pain in his forehead pierced him, and the weight of the goblin
    bore down upon him; he could feel the blade of Gryffindor’s sword bumping against his back: Dobby’s
    hand jerked in his; he wondered whether the elf was trying to take charge, to pull them in the right

    direction, and tried, by squeezing the fingers, to indicate that that was fine with them . . .

    And - point missed. Okay. I'm going to bed now, it's like eight in the morning and I forgot the time waiting for your replies. :p

    Sorry if I annoyed you, mate. I just enjoy a good discussion. ^^'
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  3. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,024
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Are you saying that Dumbledore apparated them, then? Either Harry apparated and brought Dumbledore, or a disabled Dumbledore apparated Harry. As per Half Blood Prince:

    House Elf magic is explicitly fucky, and doesn't follow the normal rules. They aren't blocked by apparition wards, and can teleport even within Hogwarts. Dobby is not a good example of what wizards and witches can do, and there is no evidence that Dumbledore did so in HBP. Even if he had, the bit you quoted in DH shows that Harry was able to detect what was happening, and did not mention as much when he was apparating with Dumbledore.
     
  4. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    High Score:
    0
    I am saying there is a big chance of Harry apparating them, and Dumbledore having helped him out. If Dumbledore could fend off an army of inferi, apparating, even such a distance, shouldn't be too difficult. So - yes, even if Harry initiated the travel, Dumbledore could very well have been participating to make sure the pair arrived safely without splinching. Dumbledore was just as intent on returning to Hogsmeade as Harry, so how are we to know that Dumbledore weren't concentrating on picturing the village in his mind and doing his part mid-apparation?

    Irrelevant. Apparition is apparition, even though house-elves does it slightly differently. Please produce a canon piece of information suggesting only house-elves can "take charge to pull [them] in the right direction".

    It isn't an example of what a wizard can do contra what a house-elf can do, it is an example of what magic can do. Sure, house-elf magic differs from that of wizards, but not excessively so. After all, the Ministry could detect Dobby's magic around Harry and labeled the hovering cake as a result of a Levitation Charm, if I'm not very much mistaken.

    Also - yeah, you're right. It isn't as if Harry had spent the better part of a year on the run and apparated frequently and gained experience and understanding of what apparition can and cannot do, meaning Harry wouldn't necessarily been aware of Dumbledore taking charge in HBP.

    Though I admit Dumbledore appeared worse for wear than I remember him being...
     
  5. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,110
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Ninclow, your approach to burden of proof is all off. You are responding to explicit canon evidence with speculation that it could be something other than what it is presented as. Speculation and "could have" is not a counter-argument. If speculation was a counter-argument, that would make everything that is not-directly contradicted part of canon.

    Did the ghost of Dumbledore help Harry kill Voldemort by possessing Voldemort and stopping his heart? Well, there's nothing to say that he didn't, so let's say that's canon!

    Harry is presented as apparating Dumbledore. If you want to say Dumbledore helped, you have to show that he actually did so. It's not enough to argue "there's nothing saying he couldn't".
     
  6. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    High Score:
    0
    I believe this is where my afterthought of "Though I admit Dumbledore appeared worse for wear than I remember him being..." comes in, making my supposed mistake in regard to the burden of proof more of a misunderstanding because I misremembered, really.
     
  7. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    798
    High Score:
    1,802
    That is one of the lamest attempts to backpedal I have ever seen.
     
  8. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    High Score:
    0
    Thanks, I practise regularly. :p

    Would you be more happy with a; "Okay, I guess you've got the right of it" instead?
     
  9. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    High Score:
    0
    I believe Rowling said at some point that the thought behind apparition licences were so that wizards couldn't for example apparate into Muggle banks to steal money and disapparate away with the goods - how would the Ministry know? As per the books, you can't trace apparition unless it is used nearby or alongside of someone underage with the Trace still on them, and even then they could only detect someone apparating, not whereto. A little off topic, I know... ^^'