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DOTA 2

Discussion in 'Gaming and PC Discussion' started by leenK, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    ES is indeed hard to completely shut down, and a good ES will be a pain as soon as he gets a blink dagger. Lineup playing against one should try to favor 1-2 melee heroes max, and put the rest at range to reduce the chance of positioning issues and end up in a big echo slam. Additionally, proper vision (ward and sentries but also hero ability such as KotL Agh or NS Agh during day/time) will allow you to anticipate the ES initiation. I also like to play hero that can disrupt blink dagger when playing against big initiator like ES/Enigma/Mag (e.g. Spectre).

    Veno is just annoying for his slow, but lack a lot of actual fighting power if he can't land his ability. Early game, that means you can bully him out of lane to prevent him from acquiring experience. He might still get gold from his ward's last hits, but at least he'll be lower level and this will greatly reduce his damage. Heroes with high magic resistance or high mobility are what I favor against veno (e.g. AM) since they can just ignore his slow and escape or chase. Additionally, Veno lack any sort of hard control, and alone he can't stop you from TP out until he has a eul. So if a Veno blow his Q and/or his R on you, and you feel like you can't survive, a good TP home is always a solution. In teamfight, Veno is a pain. He should always be focused down early, and controlled if you can to prevent him from using his R, but barring that, delaying as much as possible is also a good option. Scrappy fight don't favor Veno either. His ultimate will only hit a limited number of player instead of the whole team. Always keep an eye out for him, and if you can engage him separately from his team, do so. It might force him to blow his ult only on you, and save your team from having to deal with it. Either way, if the ult ends up being blown you need to treat it like a race. That ult (w/ Veil) is going to destroy your team in a matter of seconds. You need to get your picks (ideally those that can interrupt your TPs) and get out. If you have healing, you might be able to stand your ground and fight (hence the popularity of KotL/Necro for the sustain they bring).
     
  2. theronin

    theronin Order Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    My games float around somehwere between 2-4k, and I've yet to see a game that was decided more by the "OP"-ness of heros than by whose carries failed less at farming. I feel like until you actually get good, it doesn't really matter all that much what you pick as long as the lineup doesn't require 2 maps worth of farm.
     
  3. Medfly

    Medfly First Year

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    26
    Thank you Hawkin for the more in depth responses.

    I agree adequate farming can pretty much decide games at our bracket, I am not sure I agree with the "pick anything" line of thought. This could just be a personal thing, but I feel the draft is considerably more important this patch than previous ones. An example of this is pretty much any line up I have played in that lacked solid counter initiation has been an uphill game and more often than not a loss. This could also be a result of climbing a playing against more competent players and I am just now noticing it.
     
  4. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros.

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Philippines
    3.5k scrub here. Started playing ES recently with decent winrate (hovering around 70% atm)

    Not disputing that kotl/NS aghs + wards do a lot to help anticipate large initiation, but I find you still have to pay attention to your positioning. It can be easy for people to think they're safe when they don't see an ES close to the tower and decide to clump up together to siege. All it takes is a 50 gold SoD to capitalize on that and I can't count the number of times I've gotten engagement winning echo slams off just by using them out of sight and blinking in before they realize I'm there.

    TLDR, always assume the big initiators are about to initiate at any given moment (unless you killed them/saw them farming the other side of the map with no TP).

    I don't entirely agree with this tbh. I mean sure, picking a hero you're comfortable with trumps counterpicking with a hero you suck at at my bracket, but that doesn't mean counterpicking is entirely useless. I've been on teams and been against teams where a meepo just stomped midgame and ended things because there was no AOE control, even though the gold and xp advantage was significantly against his team.
     
  5. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    Dota is such an interesting game for deciding moment such as these. While ES is a great initiator, his force lies more in counter-initiation as many other heroes. It's amazing what smoke can do, and how little they are used in lower brackets. However, I do want to point out that smoke break at 1025 range (vision) and most heroes have 1800 Day / 800 Night. Add to that the unobstructed vision from NS/KotL Agh, and they can (if aware enough) prevent you from blinking forward.

    Nonetheless, one should always keep an eye out for ES. Stay spread, and just chipped at towers or at heroes until he either revealed himself, or you have a clean kill without committing all of your heroes so you don't get echo in the face.