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Hogsmeade: Local community

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ninclow, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

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    Anyone who have ever theorized or have had fun coming up with a general picture of how it would be like living in Hogsmeade? For me, it is one of those cozy little places where everyone knows everyone. Like - you can have three children whose thick like thieves, and that's largely because their fathers and/or mothers were good friends as children and still remain good friends at "present day". One of those places where everyone know each other and is on a first name basis, the sort of place where everyone sort of looks out for each other.

    I have this idea that there also an annual ceremony commemorating the introduction of the International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy, where all the residents gather in the square around this huge bonfire not unlike the ones used by Muggles to burn witches and wizards on the stake onto which they would throw bad memories (figuratively and literally) and celebrate with free coca at the Three Broomsticks Inn.

    Or maybe an annual celebration of the founding of Hogsmeade or a Hengist of Woodcroft Remembrance Day.

    I also imagine that there would be a Mayor's office and a Sheriff's department, or some sort of outpost of the Ministry of Magic where a member of the Wizengamot settle disputes between villagers and maybe some officers from the Magical Law Enforcement Squad is stationed to keep the peace.

    What about you guys?
     
  2. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I don't think there would be a Ministry outpost or DMLE people stationed there for a single, simple reason. HP is a setting in which teleportation is easy and frequent, so there's no need to spread out essential services like that. You don' t need hospitals, police stations, or courthouses everywhere. A child can use the floo and go to the ministry if they needed to, and if the DMLE is responding to something they do so by one of the various forms of teleportation.

    I think of Hogsmeade as a bit larger than you do. It has enough people to need more than one bar, and even a specialty tea shop. In fact, here's a list of known businesses in Hogsmeade.

    Even if you assume that each business only employs a few people, that's a fair amount of business that is not solely sustained by Hogwarts students on the weekends.
     
  3. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I'd like to shop in a place called Dogweed and Deathcap. I bet they have good herbs. :) Why haven't they ever used that name in fanfic. That's much better than them having to make "trips to Diagon" so they can get gifts and shit. It seems just as big to me. I'm assuming Diagon is fuck huge though.
     
  4. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

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    There are just a couple of flaws with that reasoning, as I see it:

    • Apparition: Apparition is out of the picture. Apparaiting between countries are very risky due to the chance of death by splinching, and I seem to remember, though I could be wrong, there being some unwritten law about how far it is advisable for people who is not Dumbledore to even try. So - they could not teleport that way.
    • Floo Network: Maybe, but that wouldn't really make sense unless there are some thus far unknown arrangement between the Ministry and one of the pubs. If the Headmaster of Hogwarts can, as Pottermore described it, "resist" having the fireplaces in the castle connected to the Floo Network out of concern that the security of the castle could be breached, I doubt the Ministry can just ignore the right to privacy by popping in and out of the fireplaces of the locals. And even if there is an arrangement with a pub, that too would be risky: If the Ministry can access the inn by floo, so can everyone else. Like Dark Wizards.
    • Portkeys: Maybe... but - I would think the Portkey Office have other things to do than sending officials from other departments around the UK, and Fudge did arrive in the third movie by a horse-drawn sleigh with the Ministry logo embossed on the doors...
    No Ministry outpost, eh? How do you suppose the village is run?
     
  5. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    @Sauce Bauss: Yeah, but your own reasoning applies. People can apparate in from everywhere, so it's actually likely Hogsmeade will have shoppers from all over -- possibly even internationally. Don't forget the ad at the World Cup, "Gladrags -- London, Paris and Hogsmeade".

    Personally (of course I would be, heh ...), what I'm interested in most is the socio-political makeup of Hogsmeade. Given that it's a purely wizarding town -- what is the attitude regarding Muggles? Is it full of purebloods and sympathisers? (No one said all purebloods had to own a manor.) Are there many wizards that have, in fact, never even seen a Muggle? Do they feel more free and/or safe, there -- is that a strong pull factor? Are there, perhaps, even special rules or waivers for the statute -- seeing as no Muggle will see it performed? Canon fact: Underage magic is a thing, except for when the students are at Hogwarts -- and out on Hogsmeade weekends.

    Hogsmeade is, I think, massively underdeveloped in FF. There is a ton you can do with it that can't be done with any other place.
     
  6. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

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    Not really. Apparition requires familiarity with the area and terrain you mean to travel to, and people "from everywhere" would have that. It'd be like trying to drive from point A to B without GPS, maps, road signs or any other indication of the right way to go, and being unable to stop to ask for directions when you first started the car.

    Hogsmeade is, I think, massively underdeveloped in FF. There is a ton you can do with it that can't be done with any other place.

    I imagine that the number of residents increased during the witch-hunts and that many of the families who moved there fleeing persecution felt free and happy there, and I imagine that sentiment would linger for quite a while. I like to think, however, that any dislike from Muggles are more due to righteous anger than outright bigotry.
     
  7. Sorrows

    Sorrows Professor Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I see it as a large sized village, but still a village, in the UK that is not an unusual amount of local shops to have in a med-to large village and the population would not have to be all that substantial if you add tourism. But then villages can be up to about 7/8000 people which makes no sense for the amount of wizards there are in the UK, if you scale it down to say 3-5000 then that is still a hefty chunk of the UK wizard population.

    If you are going to base it off British villages. The Sheriffs department would be a Police Station (or wizard equivalent) and not be an elected post. Actually most villages don't have a permanent police presence, even the large ones, but Hogsmeade is unique so maybe it would. Only the largest cities have mayors in the UK and its a modern US import. There might be a wizarding equivalent of a parish council I guess.
    There will probably be a village hall and I'd love to see the wizarding equivillant of a village fate. Prehaps there would be a wizarding equivalent of a GP (doctor) but in a world with apparition and Floo powder I don't see why people would not just pop to the Hospital instead.

    The Bonfire thing is already a celebration of ours. Its called Guy Fawks night and its our yearly celebration where we ritualistically burn the effigy of a long dead Catholic dude. I guess you could make a wizard equivalent or else you could make Guy Fawks into a magic/muggle unionist or something.

    If you want to draw from local culture, Scotland still does some pretty epic paganistic firefestivals, Samhian and Beltane come to mind, as well as Candlemass and Hogmany and Up Helly Ah. Worth looking up if you want inspiration and I'm surprised they have not been worked into more fics.



    I wonder if there would be a church? Basically every village in Britain has an ancient and largley unused church or two , wizards are pretty secular but they do celebrate christian holidays which suggests that there is some influence, plus there main immigrant population (muggleborns) were likly to be christian for the last few hundred years. Still its unlikly to be the center of village life if its anything like most of the villages I been to lately. If there is a Vicar he should rightly be shared between about 6 other churches with single digit congragations but thats probably a bit true to life. If so would he be CofE or pre-reformation catholic or some wizarding offshoot of Protestantism? hmm I don't think I've ever seen anyone explore wizard religion and the fact they celebrate christian holidays, unless they are adding some pagan ceremonies.

    For reference Samhian
    [​IMG]
    Hogmany
    [​IMG]


    Beltane
    [​IMG]

    Up Helly Ah
    [​IMG]

    Basically Scotland loves its crazy Pagan fire-parties and its a crime they are not utilized more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  8. Download

    Download Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    Did you miss the bit where the UK is still whole and part of the same nation as England?
    What? You think pubs, who depends on patrons arrive at their place of business and buying their stuff, wouldn't have an open fireplace? The Leaky Cauldron did. Even Borgin and Burkes, a shop that caters to darker clientele, had an open fireplace. There's no reason to not think nearly every shop has an open fireplace.

    By a mayor or some sort of local council? I can think of plenty of small towns that don't contain bastions of the federal government. I don't see why in a setting with instant teleportation that they need them at any higher rate.
     
  9. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Except in this case, we're talking about apparating within the same country. It's treated no differently from a driver's license.

    We know that there are communal and public floo locations, since you can floo to Diagon Alley and Knockturn Alley. Just because you're going to Hogsmeade doesn't mean it dumps you in some random person's living room. Hogwarts is secured specifically since it's a school. The danger of Dark Wizards is no greater than it would be to have them apparate outside and walk in.


    While that's valid, I think the fact that it's one of the only purely wizarding areas is pertinent. You could raise your children surrounded by magical folk. Despite the various forms of teleportation, Knockturn/Hogsmeade/Diagon

    We had a pretty lengthy discussion about apparation, and it's pretty general. The Death Eaters could apparate to Voldemort when he touched a mark, the Snatchers could apparate anywhere where Voldemort's name was said, and Harry/Hermione were able to apparate to Godric's Hollow despite never having been there.
     
  10. wordhammer

    wordhammer Supreme Mugwump DLP Supporter

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    I can easily see a post-Express fire party in Hogsmeade as the residents celebrate the beginning of a student-free summer..

    Also I think they regularly take advantage of the isolation to practice magic out in the open. Broom races, a version of a dog show where owners bring their trained beasts, and of course there would be much more frequent collaboration and experimentation going on, since there are plenty of wizards around to help get things under control if one were to really botch something.
     
  11. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    I don't really feel like having the apparition argument in this thread too. TL;DR, there's evidence you can at least use it cross Britain from north to south (using the second part of the quote Ninclow forgot), and that same distance from Hogwarts gets you onto the continent in various places, from Norway to the Netherlands. And just because I can, I will now make Norwegian Viking Wizards regulars in Hogsmeade in some story. How did Hagrid get that dragon egg? Uh-huh, thank you kindly.


    As regards the administration of the village, the least overhead would be to have it administrated like all other wizarding homes and settlements -- directly from the Ministry. If there is some sort of council, I'd posit it's -- like Hogwarts -- detached from the Ministry and actually a rivalling governing body. There could well be some friction between a confident group of villagers, representing Hogsmeade and its interests, and ministerial staff. If the village numbers a thousand in size, it could be a third of all British wizards -- a very serious power base.

    So actually, the statute was never waived for anyone, but Hogsmeade residents don't really care, and a Minister that wants to get elected can't do shit or he won't be elected. That's why underage wizards use magic in Hogsmeade all day long and the Ministry stopped caring. I like it.
     
  12. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

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    The Ministry of Magic is in London, England. Hogsmeade is in the Scottish Highlands.

    Yes it is. Dark Wizards who don't live in Scotland can't simply apparate cross-country, so using the floo netwrok to get to Hogsmeade if Dark Wizards decide to attack Hogwarts for example, is the easiest way to get there. Honestly, movies aside, how do you suppose the hundreds of Death Eaters, Snatchers and imperiused Ministry personal could gather so quickly at Hogwarts to help Voldemort fight against the students, staff and teachers without the Floo Network?

    Those examples are very specific, because when Voldemort's name is uttered or the Dark Mark is touched by Voldemort, the relevant parties are made aware of the time and places through the Protean Charm or something similar, so that's, as far as I've gathered, the exceptions. As a rule of thumb, familiarity with the area and terrain is required for everyday travel.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  13. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    @Ninclow: You are simply, factually wrong. But I'd very much like this thread not to be side-tracked. If you have questions about apparition, bump the other thread.

    Everyone else ditto.
     
  14. Ninclow

    Ninclow Fourth Year

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    Speaking as a Norwegian myself, that's really cool of you. ^^