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Naruto- Chakra Laws?

Discussion in 'Other Fandoms Discussion' started by Shezza, May 27, 2013.

  1. Shezza

    Shezza Renegade 4 Life DLP Supporter

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    Hey guys. So, I'm trying to get some mechanics of the use of chakra for my story down, but it's very rarely explained in the manga and canon is all over the place. I'm wondering if there's anybody who'd like to put their 'laws' of chakra down. I've had a few thoughts, but I could use some more.

    Here's what I got so far.

    Rule 1- Chakra is finite
    Chakra can manipulate fire, create floods and level the ground. However, whatever it creates is temporary. Forest fires started by fire-nature chakra will die fairly quickly. Lakes created by water-nature chakra will dry up. Swamps created by earth-nature chakra will... I dunno, do the opposite of swamp. Tools created by shadow clone techniques will dissipate fairly quickly. This makes Amaterasu special- seven day flame.

    Exception: Wood Release, Sage of the Six Paths
    See Below

    Rule 2- Chakra cannot create life
    Like stated. With chakra, a shinobi can manipulate the world around them- but only that which has no life. That's why the First Hokage was so special- his chakra created life, a pretty big deal.

    Exception: Wood release, Sage of the Six Paths

    Rule 3- A shinobi's chakra may align itself with a certain elemental nature, but not exclusively

    The way I see it, any shinobi can learn and master the use of any of the non-bloodline elements. While their chakra may be easier to form a specific element (e.g., wind), that doesn't mean that through training and hard-work that a shinobi can't master other affinities.

    Because otherwise it's just boring.

    The Rinnegan aligns a user's chakra to all affinities. It makes it substantially easier for the user, but elemental affinities don't really seem to be the 'special' part of those eyes.




    And that's all I got so far. I suppose I'm trying to create something like a 'Potter Law' thread, so we can get a solid foundation of some good points, and perhaps a list of cliches to avoid.
     
  2. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject, but I'm pretty sure it'd be a lot easier to hammer out the laws if you specifically exclude bloodlines and people playing host to tailed beasts right from the start.
     
  3. knight504

    knight504 The Chosen One

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    Here's some mechanics I did a while back, excluding Rule 7 which is a variation of something Lord Raine wrote several years ago.

    Rule 4: Chakra can be used to enhance a ninja's physical capabilities.

    A ninja is able to enhance their body by generating chakra and concentrating it in the necessary areas. By focusing it in the legs they can run faster and jump higher and focusing it in the arms allows them to hit harder and lift a greater amount of weight. The Body Flicker Technique is a ninjutsu based on this concept which supercharges the entire body with chakra so the user can move at extreme speeds, appearing to vanish from sight. The more a shinobi trains their body then the more chakra can be focused within their limbs, meaning that a taijutsu specialist would achieve greater benefits from chakra enhancement than a genjutsu specialist. The more chakra focused in the area, the greater the force produced.

    Certain individuals have developed unique forms of chakra enhancement that can achieve even greater results than usual. Haruno Sakura developed a jutsu which builds up as much chakra as possible in her fist and releases it at the moment of impact for incredible destructive power. But the most famous example is Tsunade of the Tsunade whose super strength is a result of her chakra control and fine-tuning. It is described as “by instantly collecting chakra into her fist and fingers, she obtains a power of destruction bodily strength alone cannot achieve.” She channels her necessary amount of chakra to the right place at the moment of exertion to increase the force expontentially.

    Chakra enhancement isn’t limited to the limbs either; it can also be used to enhance the user’s senses. By concentrating chakra to the right areas, a ninja’s sense of touch, smell, hearing, sight and taste can be enhanced beyond what humans are normally capable. Certain individuals and ninja clans are predisposed towards certain types of enhancement such as the Inuzuka who possess an incredibly sense of smell.

    Rule 5: Chakra can be used to project a person's will i.e. killing intent.

    A shinobi is capable of projecting their will through their chakra out in the surrounding environment, usually directed at a specific target. This creates a form of atmospheric pressure that instigates an instinctive psychological reaction in victim, and its intensity depends upon the strength and nature of their chakra as well as the strength of their will.

    The most common form of this is killing intent where shinobi project their will to kill at a target to generate fear, potentially causing discomfort, paralysis, suicidal impulses and violent hallucinations. There are cases of the opposite being done when the user project to desire to protect another, enveloping the target with a sense of security and safety which is considered useful when fighting alongside comrades or protecting civilians. There are as many types of intention as they are emotions but it’s rare for a shinobi to experience or use any more than those two.

    Rule 6: Anyone is capable of sensing chakra but not everyone can be a sensor.

    Everyone has a certain sense that allows them to detect chakra. This sense is most apparent when touching another person or an object that contains chakra however it’s possible to sense chakra from a distance. Even with training, for most shinobi that wouldn’t extend beyond ten meters unless there’s a powerful and/or huge spike of huge chakra.

    A smaller percentage of the population are known as Sensors. Their ability to sense chakra extends far beyond what most people are capable of, allowing them to detect targets from a great distance as well as differentiate individuals from their chakra signature alone. They possess an awareness of when other sensors are using their ability. The range and detail of this technique various between sensors as some are so skilled that they can tell when a person is lying or preparing a jutsu whilst others can only tell the general direction of a chakra mass

    It’s also possible for a ninja to suppress their own chakra to prevent them from being sensed. For most ninja, this doesn’t completely hide a person’s chakra but it does make them far harder to sense which is useful for stealth and evasion. A sensor on the other hand is essentially able to make themselves completely invisible to chakra sense at the cost of not being able to use their own chakra sensing. It’s very difficult to use a jutsu and suppress chakra at the same time due to the needed concentration, usually forcing the ninja to stop the suppression when they need to attack or defend.

    Some shinobi have developed specific jutsu which allows them to detect the presence of enemies either because they aren’t sensors or to expand the range of their sensory ability. This is known as contact-type sensing. The most notable examples are Nagato creates rain infused with his chakra and Gaara who spreads a special type of sand over an area.

    Rule 7: Hand-seals are used to automatically* mould, shape and transform a ninja's chakra.

    Hand-seals serve an important function to chakra users, in that they allow the user to mould and shape their chakra in the correct way to utilize jutsu. Because each hand-seal can shape and mould chakra in a different way, stringing multiple hand-seals together can create increasingly complex effects.

    While it is a general rule of thumb that more powerful jutsu require more hand-seals (because they involve complex effects), this is not always true. Some of the most infamous and legendary jutsu are actually relatively simple at heart, and require only one or two hand-seals, if any at all.

    However, while hand-seals are extremely important, they are also, at their core, a crutch of sorts, because they mould and shape the user's chakra for them. Identical effects could be accomplished through training and chakra control, and high-level chakra users or individuals with a high degree of control can easily drop certain seals from their jutsu, because those seals are no longer needed; they can mould their chakra in that manner without seals.

    To this end, chakra control is essential to powerful chakra users, because it allows them to use their abilities and techniques with greater speed. The less seals you require, the faster you can fight and cast jutsu.

    The twelve primary hand-seals act as the core hand-seals for chakra users. Each of the twelve hand-seals represents a different animal of the Zodiac, along with a different celestial house and planet. The purpose of hand-seals is to mould and shape chakra, and to that end, different combinations of hand-seals have different effects.

    Among the twelve standard seals for jutsu, each of which represents an animal of the Zodiac, there are five seals that are special, in that they convert your normal chakra into elemental chakra for you automatically when used.

    They are:

    Tora (Tiger): The Fire seal.
    U (Rabbit/Hare): The Wind seal.
    Tatsu (Dragon): The Water seal.
    Mi (Snake/Serpent): The Earth seal.
    Tori (Bird/Rooster): The Lightning seal.

    These elemental hand-seals are used by ninjutsu users who have not yet mastered or trained in elemental manipulation. They are, just like the other seven "normal" seals, crutches, as they allow someone who normally has no power over a given element to make use of jutsu that use that element.

    However, these five hand-seals are considered to be more vital and important than the other seven, because unlike those seven, the elemental seals cannot be dropped or ignored simply by improving one's control. Only mastery of an elemental training exercise would allow someone to drop an elemental hand-seal, because only mastering the ability to shift the elemental nature of their chakra to another element would render an elemental seal obsolete.

    While the twelve primary hand-seals cover the basics for most chakra use, there are still some techniques that require a more exotic or extreme touch. These techniques and jutsu utilize what are known as "off-seals" and "secret seals", or seals that are not part of the twelve core seals known by all shinobi.

    These seals serve two primary functions:

    1.) To provide an effect or shape chakra in a manner that would be impossible with the twelve core seals (in this context, 'impossible' is defined as "far too many to be of any use", as there are actually very few effects that could not be created with the twelve core seals, provided they were used in the correct (often extremely long) sequence and given enough time. However, an effect that would otherwise take hundreds or thousands of seals to create is considered "impossible" for the sake of the term).

    2.) To keep certain specific techniques and abilities exclusive to a group, organization, or family. Most powerful clans have created their own secret hand-seals, and the clan's hijutsu (secret techniques) are designed to require this hand-seal to operate properly. Most villages also possess one or more secret seals, which are usually tied into that villages secret or forbidden techniques, and are jealously guarded.

    *Not literally automatic, of course, otherwise you'd be able to learn a jutsu in one try. More like handseals provide the directions that your chakra needs to follow to produce an effect.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  4. Cxjenious

    Cxjenious Supreme Mugwump

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    Would your rule 5 include chakra "corrupted" by negative emotions? Kyuubi's chakra was nigh unusable when he hated everything, and Sasuke's chakra was different as well when he was hell bent on destroying Konoha.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  5. knight504

    knight504 The Chosen One

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    Pretty much, though I figure it would automatically have a negative effect on those around them rather than it being 'neutral'. Even if they're not trying, they could make you feel uncomfortable or worse and when they do try it's worse than normal.
     
  6. someone010101

    someone010101 Groundskeeper

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    I personally would simplify like this.

    1. The more Chakra one has, the more difficult chakra control is.
    Apparently, chakra is controlled by percentage.

    2. Only Sensors can sense Chakra. All Ninja can sense malevolent Chakra.


    "Malevolent Chakra" meaning Biju chakra, killing intent, fighting chakra.
    If you go with knight504s Rule 5, you get a linear sensing vs masking conflict, that basically crushes all complicated attempts of subterfudge. In a ninja story.

    3. Affinities
    Each Ninja has one primary affinity. With training, he can learn to turn his own chakra into that affinities and wield it intuitively.
    With way more training, he can develop a secondary affinity and turn his chakra into chakra of that second element too, but he can't use it as smoothly.

    Even a Ninja who has not developed an affinity towards <element> can use techniques of <element>.
    But it is alike to navigating a maze blindly. Sure, it's possible if you have an exact route: One meter north, two east, half a meter south ...

    That is the reason why the Sharingan can copy Jutsu of an element the Sharingan owner does not have an affinity towards. It is also the reason Uchiha teach their children the Grand Fireball technique.

    Some Kekkai Genkai exist because some people are born with an affinity towards two elements. In the case of Haku that is Wind and Water, for Mokuton Water and Earth.
    When said people merge those elements, they create a new element, in our examples Ice or Wood.
    Curiously enough, we didn't see any Kekkai Genkai merging the Fire element despite our main casts origin in Fire Country. Come to think of it, does anyone actually have a fire affinity and did we see any meaningful fire techniques?

    The Rinnegan owner has access to the hell statue Gedo Mazo, all techniques of the six paths and a primary affinity to every element. It follows he can merge every element with any other element too. But the Rinnegan is so ludicrously broken it doesn't really matter.

    Kekkai Genkai are pretty much gamebreaker, they don't follow any law or logic. Like Kimmimaros, which he can use to control bones, and apparently heal all the flesh, skin and tendons he destroys when he rips bones out of his body.
    And what eyes have to do with a giant bony humanoid THING (Susanno) is known only to god.
     
  7. knight504

    knight504 The Chosen One

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    Never been a fan of ninjas developing 'secondary affinities', personally. One of those things that bug me when they pop up in fanfiction.

    I take it you mean Rule 6. Pre-TS, Sasuke was able to sense the chakra in Lee's arms despite not being a sensor or having his Sharingan active. Hence why everyone can sense chakra but only to a very limited degree i.e. Sasuke was standing right in front of him (and had just been in contact with him) and Lee was likely enhancing himself somewhat. For most non-sensors, it'd be still possible for someone to sneak up on/past them even if they weren't actively suppressing the chakra. Though a ten meter range from training might be too generous a range. (Edit: Tbh, I wasn't thinking of these in the context of fanfiction when I wrote them. I was just coming up with theories based on canon so I guess parts of what I've done might not work as well for story purposes.)

    I should probably be re-reading these before I post them but oh well.

    Rule 8(?): Only ninjas who possess an elemental bloodline can combine nature transformations.

    An elemental kekkei genkai allows the user to generate two different chakra natures simultaneously and release them together to form a combined element. They possess modular chakra circulatory systems which allow different parts of their body to close themselves off from each other and produce different types of chakra simultaneously. So they can combine different chakra elements while a normal person is physiologically limited to producing only one element at a time. Technically, this is a single kekkei genkai but it is classified as several thanks to their being multiple elemental combinations.

    These advanced elements possess the properties of the elements that were used to compose it e.g. Ice Release can be a highly offensive style and is greatly compatible with shape manipulation. These advanced elements can produce different substances and effects depending on the ratio of the elemental chakra being used. Whilst numerous clans and individuals have been known to share the same advanced element, their environment, history and individuality mean that they can create different kinds.

    The standard method of doing this is to gather the chakra of one element in each hand and then bringing them together to produce the advanced element chakra. This is because the tenketsu in the hands are the easiest to emit chakra from and whilst it’s possible to combine them entirely within the body, it’s much harder. The nature of their chakra system means that they are capable of performing standard elemental jutsu with one-handed hand-seals.

    The clans who possess these elemental bloodlines developed them through long-term specialisation in elemental jutsu. They focused on two nature transformations exclusively and their continued usage of this altered their genes so that their clan members all shared these affinities. They grow stronger over time, aided by selectively breeding with individuals who also possessed the correct affinities to make them far more capable than regular ninja. Eventually they developed a kekkei genkai; they were born with two affinities and were capable of performing both nature transformations simultaneously and combining them. Gene therapy and genetic engineering have been used to ensure their kekkei genkai would awaken in those who carry the genes without needing to resort to inbreed and ensure that their offspring always inherit the bloodline’s genes.

    However, there have been individuals born with this kekkei genkai without belonging to these clans thanks to possessing the right genetic code. These may be the only generation to possess it or it sometimes results in them starting their own bloodline clans. And then there are some truly special individuals who are capable of using two advanced elements; a result of having parents of each possess different advanced elements. In most cases, the offspring would only inherit one but if the parents share an affinity, the child would be able to use both advanced elements. Terumi Mei is an example of this as she has two kekkei genkai thanks to both advanced elements using fire-natured chakra as a component. Theoretically, it would be possible for someone to possess four advanced elements though it’s undocumented and probably couldn’t be achieved through natural means.

    People who possess this kekkei genkai have the instinctual ability to transform their chakra into both elements thanks to their extreme affinities, allowing them to use their advanced elements without training. To what extent this is true depends on the individual. But this overspecialisation leaves them nearly-incapable of performing nature transformation for any of the other elements, limiting them to their inborn elements unlike regular ninja.

    Rule 9 (?): Combining natural energy with a ninja's physical and mental energy allows them to perform Senjutsu.

    Senjutsu is a form of chakra manipulation which was discovered by the summon animals. As animals they are closer to nature than humans and their instincts led to them learning to harness its power. Not all the summon animals possess knowledge of senjutsu and not all of those that do are willing to pass on their teaching. The ones that do are willing to teach those who sign their clan’s summoning contract in blood.

    To use senjutsu, it’s necessary to possess extreme levels of chakra as it would mean that the user has a body which can use the full potential of this training, one that’s capable of handling a foreign energy being introduced into it. The process involves sensing and absorbing natural energy into the body and blending it with their chakra to create the more powerful sage chakra. The user is required to balance their physical and spiritual energy with the natural energy they gather from nature. If the user puts too little natural energy into using senjutsu, the technique will not work and if they gather too much then they transform into an animal and turn to stone. Once a balance has been reached, the user will enter an empowered state known as Sage Mode. Reaching this point means that the user is no longer in danger of turning into a stone animal.

    There are two types of Sage Mode; perfect and imperfect. Perfect Sage Mode is achieved when the user is able to perfectly balance natural energy with their chakra. The only part of their appearance which changes is their eyes; usually changing colour, shape and/or gaining markings. The advantages provided by this form are that the user's physical strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, and durability dramatically increase and their ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu become more powerful. They can harness the natural energy surrounding them, turning it into an extension of their body, which increases the reach of their attacks. Lastly, they gain a sensory ability to detect and identify other people's chakra even from very long distances away, measure the strength of size of someone’s chakra and enable them to predict the movements of their enemies.

    Imperfect Sage Mode is when the user hasn’t achieved a perfect balance of energy, causing their body to take on animalistic properties. The disadvantages of this are that the increase in physical abilities and the strength of their jutsu isn’t as great as they would be in the perfected form, and they are unable to harness natural energy as an extension of their body to increase the reach of their attacks. Instead they are capable of transforming parts of their body to become more animalistic which can be useful in combat.

    Despite common belief, it isn’t necessary for humans to sign a contract with a summon animal for them to use senjutsu. However it’s far more difficult for a human to become in tune with nature without a blood bond with summon animals, assuming they even possess the necessary knowledge. And the lack of tools that would prevent them from turning to stone would make it a dangerous and time-consuming endeavour.

    When an un-contracted human learns senjutsu, instead of transforming into an animal they remain humanoid but undergo unnatural alterations with the exact features being unique to each individual. The only common features are yellow eyes with a black sclera, skin changing colour, and longer hair, though someone who can use a perfect Sage Mode would only have their eyes change colour. This type of senjutsu is incredibly rare and those that use it are known as Demon Sages.

    (That last part might end up being contradicting depending on the origin of Hashirama's Senjutsu.)

    Edit: I don't think I have any more pre-made ones after this which is essentially a different version of Rule 3:

    Rule 10: Ninja can transform their chakra into any element with training, regardless of affinity.

    This is an advanced method of chakra control which transforms the nature of the user’s chakra into an innate type of chakra nature, altering its properties and characteristics. There are six types of nature transformations; fire, water, lightning, wind, earth and yin-yang.

    Elemental ninjutsu can be performed without the need for nature transformation by using specific hand seals which automatically change the user’s chakra into a specific element. However the more advanced the elemental ninjutsu, then the greater number of hand seals is required and the elemental hand seal becomes repeated more and more often. And a jutsu used with this method would be less powerful, slower and less cost-effective than one used with mastered nature transformation. So it’s common for shinobi to learn nature transformation for at least one type.

    Every individual will have an affinity for a certain chakra type which makes it easier to learn to how create and control the nature in question, although even with an affinity this process will usually take any number of years. This affinity is a result of their genetics which makes it natural for entire clans to share the same one with the occasional exception. Shinobi who come from hijutsu-using clans will often have an affinity for yin-yang rather than one of the elements. This is because the continued moulding of chakra in such a specific fashion has been passed down enough generations that clan members have become genetically predisposed to its usage.

    Some clans specialises in nature transformations for a specific element. This can cause their descendants to have an affinity for that element which grows stronger throughout the generations if they can continue to train it. A by-product of this is that the clan member may be capable of transforming the chakra in that element even without nature transformation training. For instance, the Uchiha Clan are known for having members who are capable of instinctively transforming their chakra into fire chakra and perform a basic jutsu.

    It’s expected that most shinobi will master the nature transformation for their affinity, above-average shinobi will master an additional nature transformation and the most exceptional master three. Learning four is incredibly difficult and time-consuming and it’s almost impossible to master five. Only those who have the Rinnegan can master all six. Not only does it usually takes years of effort, but whilst most individuals possess an affinity for a specific element it’s equally likely for them to have one or two elements which are more difficult to master than usual.

    People who possess elemental kekkei genkai are born with more than one affinity and are able to instinctively transform their chakra into each of those elements. The only training that they would need to do in this respect would be increase the amount of elemental chakra they can produce in an instant, and they would be able to do it in less time than it would take regular people.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  8. Evan Tide

    Evan Tide Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    Rule 10: There are only 6 Human Chakra Elements.

    This has been stated both in the manga and by Kishimoto.

    Water
    Fire
    Wind
    Earth
    Lightning
    Yin-Yang

    Yin-Yang Release are both sides of the exact same coin. Humans can only use one side of it. Only bloodlines, like the Rinnegan, can use both and combine them. Examples of Yin-Yang techniques are Akimichi multisize jutsu for Yang and Nara shadow jutsu for Yin.

    Wood is not a new element. It's a mixture of Water and Earth properties, but does not spawn a "Wood" Element.

    Same with Ice. It's a mix of Wind and Water but there is no "Ice" Element. It's a hybrid Water/Wind abbreviated to "Ice" for sake of convenience.

    Rule 11: Chakra rotates naturally throughout the body. Movement controls effects of chaka

    Jiraiya states this during the initial Rasengan training. Chakra naturally rotates right or left and affects jutsu, affinities, and physical traits. It is possible to control how your chakra moves as that's how different jutsu are made.

    This rotation can be checked based on how your hair swirls from the back.

    Naruto's chakra naturally rotates to the right.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  9. Menace

    Menace Minister of Magic

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    I'm pretty sure Yang chakra is capable of this. 'S why Naruto's Kyuubi cloak made Yamato's constructs grow.
     
  10. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Not sure I fully agree with the whole fire issue. I mean fire chakra in itself may be temporary, but so long as the target itself is flammable, then surely the heat from the fire chakra would ignite the target. So for example if you have incredibly dry trees and you shoot fire at them, I would expect that the fire would continue even after the chakra runs out.

    Basically I would view fire chakra to be similar to a flamethrower. If you shoot fire with a flamethrower, the fire from the flamethrower runs out the moment whatever fuel runs out, but if the flames have caused something to ignite naturally due to the innate heat, then that will continue to burn. So basically, whether fire chakra causes a permanent fire or not, would depend on how flammable the target material is.

    However at that point it would obviously be a natural fire rather than chakra fire. The fire created by chakra would run out quickly.

    I would tend to agree with the other ideas (such as water vanishing), since creating permanent water from basically nothing basically goes into reality manipulation, of which only old-rinnegan!Madara and Sage of the Six Paths have shown any sign of.

    Given the recent chapter where the entire alliance all used an earth-technique, I would say this is accurate. However in order for the whole training to master your affinity to make sense, then there are presumably limits.

    So maybe for example.

    If you have a natural wind affinity like Naruto has, you can learn wind techniques more easily, they cost less chakra, and they are more destructive. There might also be some hard limit where extreme level elemental techniques (think A&S-class) can only be used if you have a natural affinity, while the simpler and more basic techniques can be used by anyone.

    I seem to recall it also being implied, that its possible to learn an affinity. Kakashi atleast implied that most jounin have 2 affinities. So Naruto might have a natural wind affinity, but he could also learn fire affinity, which would then allow him to use top-level techniques which he otherwise could not. However I would presume that learning extra affinities becomes increasingly difficult or Jiraiya would not have emphasized the fact that rinnegan is so unique in having all affinities.

    So maybe for example, learning 2nd affinity is twice as hard as mastering your natural affinity.
    Learning 3rd affinity is four times ar hard as mastering your natural affinity.
    Learning 4th affinity is eight imes as hard as mastering your natural affinity.(approaching impossible).
    And learning 5th affinity is 16 times as hard as mastering your natural affinity (completely impossible).

    Well thats just speculation, but I would presume that there has to be somekind of limiting factor, or every jounin would certainly have mastered every element by the time they reach the age of 30 or something.


    Not sure if this is really ever truly confirmed in canon. Unless I have forgotten something, I don't think we have ever seen normal shinobi enhance their senses with chakra. Yes, the Inuzuka do, but given that it seems to be unique to them, and even then only the smell, one might suspect that its somesort of (semi)-bloodline ability rather than something anyone can learn.

    I would say this is pretty rare and not all that powerfull. Sasuke was able to break free as a genin from the killing intent of Orochimaru. And we have not really seen anyone that has actually gained experience truly fall for this trick.

    Also, I wonder if its possible to just project your chakra outwards without any actual intent. In the recent chapters, Hashirama basically seemed to do that to impress how serious he was to Tobirama, and while everyone was shocked by it, no one seemed to react the way Sasuke did to Orochimarus killing intent for example. So it might be possible for someone with extremely powerfull chakra to sort of "show off" in order to try and dissuade others, without imbuing any emotion (positive or negative) into it.

    Basically, a case of "I have this much chakra, are you really sure you want to mess with me". The downside of that ofcourse would be that the opponent would then know you are a chakra beast and possibly be able to change tactics if the intimidation does not work.


    Hmm. Not sure I would say that everyone has that. There are examples of people hiding and not being detected. Though there are also lots of examples of people being detected. Hmm, not sure.

    This I am very unsure about. Yes, we know that Karin was able to hide her chakra, as was Muu. However both of them are arguably somewhat special cases. Karin is a descendant of the Sage, and Muu became a kage. I would not automatically give total sensory invisibility to every sensor.

    Furthermore, I wonder if even these hidden sensors can be detected in other ways. For example, Naruto in SM might be able to sense someone hiding due to some nature energy shenanigans (since presumably the hiding sensor is still connected to nature or something). And ofcourse I would presume that no sensory invisibility technique can avoid being detected by KCM, which senses not ones chakra but literally the emotions/malice/evil in someones mind/soul.

    I would argue that bijuu are generally a special case when it comes to this. I mean humans are basically truly physical creatures, made of real flesh and blood and all that. Bijuu however are more like chakra entities, so it makes sense that since they are completely* composed of chakra, the emotions/will of said bijuu can change the nature of that chakra to far greater extent than any human could.

    *Thanks to the recent chapter, I am no longer as sure that the bijuu are truly chakra all the way. There might be some separate "bijuu soul" that produces chakra. The popular theory for how Minato was able to go to KCM is that all of Kuramas "soul" went into Naruto, and so the Yin-chakra in Minato has no mind or will, which is why he was able to use it so easily. We will probably find the answer to this in the coming chapters, but it does seem to make sense to me.

    That would also explain how bijuu return from the dead. Lets say a human is killed. The soul of the human then completely leaves the physical (impure) world and enter the afterlife or (pure world). Techniques such as Edo Tensei summon souls from the pure world back into the impure world.

    However its possible that since Juubi is somehow linked to the planet/nature, the bijuu who were formed of its chakra share that property. So when a bijuu dies, its physical chakra body is destroyed and the chakra in that body is lost, but the soul does NOT enter the pure world but sticks around. The bijuu soul then continues to generate and store chakra, until eventually it has accumulated enough to recreate the chakra body.

    This is just WMG on my part though.


    Is this a confirmed canon fact? I know that its common fanon that Naruto has difficulty with his chakra control due to being such a huge chakra battery, but is this actually confirmed anywhere.

    For one, Naruto is a very unique case in that his seal constantly transfers small amounts of Kyuubis chakra into his body. Any difficulty in chakra control might originate from there, rather than from his huge chakra reserves. Naruto was also pretty lazy when he was a kid, so he might not have practised as much as he should.

    Furthermore, Narutos chakra levels are far greater than Sasukes, and yet both learned the tree walking excercise about the same time.

    Then there are things like mastering the most difficult aspect of the rasengan in a week (which Tsunade thought was utterly impossible) and mastering SM so quickly. Even the recent ability to transfer and match his own chakra with the unique chakra of other people suggests that when Naruto really puts his mind to it, he can actually achieve exceptional chakra control.

    So I wonder if this might be a popular fanon? Can anyone recall anything from canon where it is plainly stated that more chakra means less control?

    Merging requires unique genetic bloodline ability. I wonder if its possible for someone to be born with an affinity to two elements without being able to merge them. Hmm.

    I don't belive the rinnegan user can merge elements. It was clearly implied that the only reason Madara can use Mokuton, is because Kabuto implanted Hashiramas face on the guy. There is zero proof that rinnegan can use things like acid-release.

    Gedo Mazo is the corpse of the Juubi. The fact that rinnegan users can summon it implies some link between the two.

    Susanoo is pretty odd. However one possibility exists that it might have something to do with Juubi. Its interesting that Narutos Fox form is basically a physical shroud of chakra that takes the form of a fox, with Naruto floating inside it. Thats basically exactly like Susanoo. Then we have the comment from Tobirama about how Uchiha have some "special chakra" in their brains that tends to drive them unstable or insane. I wonder if maybe there is a connection. That special chakra might be chakra inherited from the Juubi due to the Sage being a jinchuuriki of Juubi when he sired the Uchiha ancestor. Susanoo might then be something related to bijuu-chakra, and a sort of "corrupted" version of Narutos BM!fox-mode.



    It was strongly implied to be the case by Kakashi though. It might be a case where rather than learning a true "affinity", you simply brute-force practise so long that you master one element to the same degree as the one you DO have an affinity in. Though I am not sure what the difference would be at that point anymore.

    We do have examples of other ways of doing this. For example, the current Mizukage literally blows lava from her mouth, and we have examples of Yamato turning parts of his body into wood.

    I would say most skilled bloodline users don't need to do the "combine hands" thing.

    Is this speculation on your part, or is this confirmed somewhere in canon. I cannot recall this being said?

    We don't know for sure that only animals can utilise senjutsu. Hashirama uses a form of genjutsu where rather than taking on animal aspects, he gets those seals/tattoos on his face. That might imply the existence of either a human!SM or mokuton!SM. It should also be mentioned that in canon, only three animal summoning places are implied to possess senjutsu. We know two of them are the toads and the snakes, so most assume the third are the slugs. Furthermore, we know that Juugos clan have a bloodline ability that automatically absorbs NE, and rather than turning to stone, they go berserk.

    Thats what Fukusama said, however I have a theory/guess that those who are descendants of the Sage of the Six Paths through the younger brother may have some natural aptitude in achieving SM. Mostly because Kabuto achieved perfect snake!SM and gave credit to dna from Uzumaki Karin. Kabuto was never a chakra monster. Hashirama also having SM supports that theory, but we shall see.

    We don't know for sure that only imperfect sages are capable of transforming body parts into animal form. Its possible that perfect sages can do that too, but there has just never been a time when it would have been usefull. It might also be that imperfect SM lacks the sensing ability of perfect SM. The perfect Sage Naruto was able to sense things from literally global scale and perceive all the battlefields after he escaped from the sensor-blocking temple. Jiraiya however was unable to sense someone literally meters behind him and got ambushed.

    Pretty sure this is not canon, though I do tend to support the idea itself. See above with my guess that maybe Hashirama has human!SM.

    Where are you getting this?


    Thats true, but I would point out that Yin and Yang can be separated. So for example there can be a technique that uses only Yang element.

    Infact using both Yin AND Yang together was implied to be very rare, and only used in things like Izanagi and the Sot6Ps Creation of all things, where you imagine something with Yin and then turn it into actual reality with Yang.


    Furthermore, just to confuse the issue further, we have confirmation that Bijuu chakra is composed of unique "elements" of Positive chakra and Negative chakra. This is different from Yin and Yang. By merging bijuu-positive and bijuu-negative chakra in a certain ratio (8:2), its possible to form a tailed beast ball. Since normal humans apparently cannot form those, we must assume that positive/negative chakras are a separate element (or whatever you want to call it) that is unique to bijuu alone.


    Yes, but that was Yang affecting already existing mokuton constructs, rather than creating life from nothing. Enhancing rather than creating.

    I do recall that during his fight with Itachi, Kabuto used SM to do something bizarre (cause rock to grow in a way that was not an earth-release technique). Not sure what that means, but it might imply that Natural Energy has the ability to atleast create somekind of semblance of "life" or atleast growth or something.
     
  11. knight504

    knight504 The Chosen One

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    To be clear, not everything I've written is something that can be definitively confirmed in canon. In various places, I've elaborated on canon concepts or introduced ideas I think would fit e.g. elemental bloodline users being incapable of elements outside of their affinities and combination. Most of what I've written is based on examples seen in canon but it's not all like that.

    Thinking back, I don't think I've seen that either. But given the way it was described (focusing chakra to the nose), it felt like something that anyone could do if they wanted. It just wouldn't be as effective as an Inuzuka's version thanks to their genetics and training.

    I'd say so. Though that's probably used as a form of intimidation even without directing malice towards someone.

    Everyone has a sense of hearing but it doesn't everyone hears a person walking up to them from behind for one reason or another. Think of it like that. It's not like spider sense that causes you to automatically notice when someone with chakra is around.

    (Though a recent chapter implies you can only sense chakra when generating chakra yourself (says Tobirama) so that may need revising anyway.)

    Maybe, maybe not. I think that line of thought was based on how it wasn't treated as a big deal when Karin did it. While individual ability's a factor, I prefer the idea that Sensor are all capable of same basic abilities.

    It's not confirmed. It could be true (though I don't like the assumption) but it's never been confirmed in canon.

    I don't like the term "secondary affinity" since I think it fuels the misconception that ninja are limited to using their elemental affinities, and I just don't think it's necessary. Kakashi has a lightning affinity and then (presumably) mastered nature transformation for earth and water. He didn't develop an affinity for them, he just learned to use them. Replace "secondary affinity" with "secondary element" and I'd be happy.

    Yeah, I know. That's why I said using your hands is the standard method, not the only method, and that it could be done entirely inside the body. Mei doesn't count she forms a handseal with both hands, but Yamamoto changes his body without handseals and the Fourth Kazekage used Magnetic Release without them too.

    It was an idea I came up with based on Juugo who's basically a human sage, as well as the cursed seal users who all possess unique transformations with some common features. It could be a result of his bloodline rather than human senjutsu but I went with this out of personal preference.
     
  12. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    I don't actually recall where it was said that Inuzuka do it by focusing chakra to their noses. Do you recall what chapter it was said? Does that give any more details?

    Regardless, I would assume that even IF its possible for anyone to do it, in order to fit into the manga world, it would have to be extremely difficult considering that I don't think we have a single example of anyone enhancing their senses with chakra (not counting Inuzukas enhancing smell). Or can you recall any?

    Yeah, generally. For reference, here is the pages where Hashirama does his chakra thing.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/6
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/7
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/8

    In that chapter, some are intimidated such as Suigetsu, while others such as Minato are more impressed. However whats interesting is that in those pages, its not just the people that are affected, but the general environment aswell. You can see cracks appearing in the walls for example, even though Hashirama apparently only creates chakra or somesuch. He does not perform any techniques, his chakra level is apparently just so extreme that he radiates it outwards and breaks stuff just by creating it or something.

    Thats pretty strange actually. Why does Naruto for example not do that, even though he is also has extreme levels of chakra. I guess I could accept that Hashirama has more chakra than Naruto, but this effect does not happen even when Naruto goes KCM or BM. And I do believe that BM!Naruto does infact have more chakra than even Hashirama. Maybe its more contained in Naruto or something or maybe there is a skill involved in "radiating chakra" that Hashirama knows and Naruto does not. For whats it worth, I could accept the idea that a more skilled Naruto (such as the one in Shezzas ANBU story) could do what Hashirama does here.

    Tobirama is a somewhat poor example for ordinary sensing anyway, since its confirmed that he actually IS a fullblown sensor of somekind.

    In this chapter, he is able to detect incoming enemies and even their numbers by just touching the ground with his finger.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-46747-4/naruto/chapter-481.html

    Its a bit odd that he needs to touch the ground though. I don't think other sensors do that? Naruto in SM certainly does not, and neither does Karin.

    I went back and checked the page. Its here:

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-29786-9/naruto/chapter-461.html

    Juugo states that Karin has the ability to hide her chakra, but he does not actually link that ability to her sensory talents. Furthermore, it seems that Karins sensory abilities are so extreme that she can even detect if someone is lying, just from the way their chakra changes.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-18115-6/naruto/chapter-457.html

    I would argue that she is not an average representation of a sensor.

    Hmm. On the other hand, we know that chakra is actively generated by that whole combining of spiritual and physical energies. Would that not then suggest that you could hide from chakra sensors if you just stopped generating chakra. Obviously that would mean you could not use any techniques/abilities though. Or maybe living beings naturally always generate small amounts of chakra (some minimal level required for life or somesuch maybe?) whether the person wants to or not, which would explain why hiding ones chakra is actually a distinct skill.

    I think it actually would make sense that everyone subconsciously always generates a tiny amount of chakra, considering that we have an example of someone dying from lack of chakra (Kakashi). That would certainly suggest that you always need some small amount of chakra to keep living. Shinobi would then be the people who can actually create larger amounts of chakra consciously, and use that chakra to do stuff, while normal civilians would just produce the bare minimum needed to maintain life. Does that make sense?

    There is also the example of Naruto sensing things with SM, which is actually a bit odd. If you look at the panels where he senses the war happening, you notice that he seems to actually get a visual image of sorts of whats going on, including a rough picture of the terrain. He also sees images of dead Zetsus, and surely dead things don't have chakra. How does that work? I guess maybe SM sensing is better somehow than normal sensing and somehow is not limited to just sensing chakra. I guess I could accept that given that it is linked to Nature and as such you might say linked to the planet itself or something.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/535/7

    I would assume then that its not true to be honest. Not enough proof of it. Especially considering that we have examples of Naruto not practising his chakra control as an academy student, which would explain his poor control. But when he actually really starts working on it, he seems to reach exceptional levels of control. Take for example the water walking exercise. The moment Jiraiya removed Orochimarus seal that was screwing Narutos chakra, he basically managed to water walk on the first try.

    You are probably right, and infact there seems to be some proof of this. I mean there is that chakra paper thing which tells you what your affinity is. When Kakashi tests Naruto, he demonstrates how the paper works, and even though Kakashi has indeed mastered elements other than lightning, the paper still only shows his affinity as lightning (it crumples, and nothing else).

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-320-15/naruto/chapter-315.html

    That being said, I would still argue that there has to be something that makes it increasingly difficult to master other elements. Why has Kakashi only mastered earth and water for example. Why has he not mastered fire and wind too? Sasuke managed to achieve some degree of mastery in both lightning and fire by the age of 12 (about), so it cannot be a question of time or the adult Kakashi would certainly have had time to master all elements. Nor would Jiraiya have been so impressed at Nagatos feat.

    I think the idea that with each additional element mastered, it gets exponentially harder to master more makes sense? What do you think.

    I also wonder how much ones natural affinity affects things. For example, is Kakashi just as good with lightning, as he is with earth, even though lightning is his natural affinity and earth is just something he learned by practise. Would make sense to me that lightning would always be the best element for Kakashi to use, no matter how much he practised the ones he lacks a natural affinity to. Thoughts?

    I think the cursed seal should not really be considered here. I mean we know that each one actually has a tiny Orochimaru living in them :p. Odds are they are a poor example of human senjutsu.

    Juugo however might be a valid example. Hmm, or maybe not. I mean we know that Juugo naturally absorbs Natural Energy due to some unique clan bloodline of his. However a Sage is someone who actually balances NE with the other two energies to produce SM chakra. From the top of my head, I cannot recall any mention anywhere that Juugo knows anything about this energy balancing thats the critical component in being a proper Sage.

    Actually, its worth mentioning that Kabuto genetically engineered himself to have the same ability as Juugo. However since Kabuto DID undergo actual training in becoming a Sage, he does not go berserk or suffer any of the other problems Juugo suffers from. So I would actually suggest that Juugo is not a Sage at all. He just has a genetic bloodline ability that somehow protects him from turning to stone from absorbing too much NE, and allows him to use raw unbalanced NE to do crazy stuff, but at the cost of lack of control.

    Its possible that if Juugo were to be taught how to balance NE with the internal spiritual/physical energies, his problems with going berserk would stop. And I think only at that point could he actually be considered a true SM user.

    The fact that Juuho lacks sensory abilities, while Naruto in SM is arguably one of the best sensors in the entire manga further implies that he is not a true Sage. There are other examples of that too. Both Naruto and Kabuto for example possess a sort of "sharingan-like" perception of enemy movements (Naruto uses it against edo!raikage and Kabuto against Itachi&Sasuke). Juugo has nothing like that. I think Juugo just has a bloodline that allows him to do all this crazy stuff with NE, but he is not a human Sage. He could become one maybe if someone taught him, but he is not one right now.
     
  13. chaosfire999

    chaosfire999 Groundskeeper

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    On the subject of the Yin and Yang Releases, I recall Shikamaru mentioning that his family's techniques had an imbalance to Yang, does anyone have this reference? I'll assume It's just fanon, otherwise.
    __________________
    Here is a very hastily thrown together theory about some aspects of Chakra. It does not take into account certain complexities, such as certain elements only being available to certain bloodline limits or there being only five Elemental Releases. It does not comment on how finite Chakra is or the strain on the body except to mention the issue. Nature Chakra is ignored.

    Energies

    There are three kinds of energy that can be combined to form Chakra: Mental Energy, Physical Energy and Natural Energy. The first two are internally produced while Natural Energy is an external source. Yin and Yang relate, respectively, to Mental and Physical energies.

    These energies cannot be used alone to create Chakra and must be combined. A baseline ratio exists where the first two are mixed to form Basic Chakra, this is Yin-Yang release chakra. There is, strictly, no Yin Release or Yang Release, but these labels can be used to indicate an overbalance of one of the other type of energy, relative to the baseline or total amounts of such energies.

    Typically the function of Yin Release is to project the imagination into the real world while Yang Release gives substance to it. In it's most basic use: Yin directs Yang.

    Shape and Nature

    Other than altering the Yin-Yang ratio, there are two Yang deformations of Yin-Yang Release Chakra, these are Shape and Nature manipulations. Shape manipulation regards changing the macroscopic behavior of a mass of chakra, ie. causing it to take a rigid form or move in a given direction. Nature manipulation involves changing the activity of the chakra on very small scales, ie. making it slippery or brittle.

    The five common Elemental Releases are achieved by altering the Nature of Chakra with Yang Release and, using the mind to make qualitative associations of certain motions of physical particles to properties of matter, using Yin Release to impose the imagined element on the Chakra.

    Elemental Affinities are a Yang trait, as they are measurable, and arise when an individual has a predisposition to a specific elemental Nature Manipulation. These can be complimented by the individual having an intuitive grasp of the associated Yin Release and imagination component, leading to some affinities seeming stronger in practice than they are.

    Laws of Yin-Yang Release:


    1) The human body cannot sustain long-term expenditure of Physical and Mental Energy.

    2) All feats have an optimal Yin-Yang ratio

    3) Feats must resemble reality
    a. The less the feat resembles reality, the more
    Yin Release must be expended
    b. Certain ‘routes’ of imagination may be more or less efficient

    4) The greater the physical form created, the more Yang Release must be expended

    5) Constructs are as permanent as their construction allows. If the creator has the knowledge and ability to project an image that could function independently (ie. with fully functioning nervous, respiratory, etc. systems for life or worked into the landscape in a self-sustaining way for inanimate objects) then it will persist beyond the end of the technique.

    6) No two persons’ Yin-Yang Release are naturally attuned.
    a. They may be synchronised or desynchronised by force of will and examination of structure, by either individual.

    (Can anyone else think of any basic laws that would fit here?)

    Sealing (Speculation)
    Seals are a method of achieving complicated or difficult Yin Release. Chakra is still supplied in whatever Yin-Yang form is necessary by the user, but the absolute specifics regarding the Yin Release are ingrained in the seal. This is typically required for self-sustaining constructs as in the Fourth Law.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  14. Shezza

    Shezza Renegade 4 Life DLP Supporter

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    Some good ideas- had a good skim. Something I want to put in is:

    Rule Whatever-we're-up-to
    - Naturally occurring chakra within the body, whether shinobi or civillian, will resist and mitigate the effects of foreign chakra
    - For example- a great fireball technique striking a shinobi will not set him alight and turn him to ashes. His chakra will fight against the foriegn chakra in the fireball as it strikes him and mitigate the damage- not all of it, but enough.

    This, in my opinion, fixes two problems

    1) Shinobi taking a shit loud of jutsu to the face and surviving

    2) The prevalence of weapons (kunai, swords, etc)

    Weapons are there because they are objects mirred in reality, and as such, the chakra circulatory system offers no such defense. I would say that in many cases, a sword of fire would be less effective than a sword of metal.

    It raises one issue, though.

    1) Genjutsu

    I had an idea that genjutsu users had to trick the body into assuming that their chakra was the body's own in order to start messing with senses and shit.
     
  15. knight504

    knight504 The Chosen One

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    I sort-of like that but it feels like it undermines the effectiveness of many offensive ninjutsu (though I guess you could canon does the same). I always chalked it up to even the weakest ninjas being more durable than regular humans thanks to their training and continued use of their chakra. (Edit: How often have we actually seen someone get hit directly by a fire jutsu anyway?)

    Genjutsu falls under Yin Release so it could be that it's able to manipulate the flow of chakra in their brain because it's composed of Yin Chakra.

    Rule ???: Fuuinjutsu is the written equivalent of a ninjutsu.

    The inscribed runes determine how the chakra is molded in the same manner as handseals do in a jutsu, and any kanji incorporated into the fuinjutsu control the shape and/or elemental transformation of the chakra (such as the kanji for "explode" that's written on the center of every explosive tag). The majority of fuinjutsu either pull in and contain something within them, or hold something in place – variations on the concepts of containing, binding and sealing.

    Because the fuinjutsu does all the heavy lifting in performing the jutsu inscribed upon it, all the ninja using it has to do to activate it is provide the seal with the correct amount of chakra with the correct ratio of physical to spiritual energy, and possibly the correct ratio of yin to yang if the fuinjutsu calls for that. That information for the most common seals such as storage seals and exploding tags would be taught to every ninja in the academy, so most ninja would be able to utilize them without needing any special understanding of how fuinjutsu functions. Copying a seal requires only excellent calligraphy skills and no knowledge of fuinjutsu - so long as the new seal is a perfect replica then it will function the same as the reference seal.

    Actually creating new seals would be just as difficult as creating a new jutsu, actually even more difficult because in addition to requiring a great understanding of chakra meta-physics, you'd need to study the "language" of fuinjutsu to know precisely how to translate the instructions of hand-seals and elemental/shape chakra transformation into runes and kanji on a piece of paper. So if you wanted to create a new medical seal, you'd need a great understanding of both medical jutsu and fuinjutsu, and to create a new kind of exploding tag you'd need to study fuinjutsu and have mastered fire elemental transformation and have a good many explosive jutsu in your repertoire.


    (Created by TFF's Altered Nova) (Might need to re-do this one to emphasis the actual sealing aspect of fuuinjutsu which is its main function.)

    Rule ???: Space-Time jutsu can only be utilised properly with fuuinjutsu.

    Whilst space-time jutsu is its own category of ninjutsu, it's impossible for someone to use it properly without involving fuuinjutsu as it needed to provide co-ordinates. Without the fuuinjutsu script creating when someone uses the summoning technique, the summon animal could end up in any random location or even become lost in a dimensional void. Even one of the greatest space-time jutsu users, Namikaze Minato, needed jutsu-shiki to land at the correct place when using his Hirashin.

    Exception: Uchiha Obito, Hatake Kakashi (and Senju Tobirama?)


    @Datakim:
    Here. I'll admit, Kurenai's statement links the ability specifically to Kiba though that could more of a reference to how much his sense of smell is enhanced, rather than him being able to enhance it at all. So when you say non-Inuzuka can't do it, I just think "why the hell not?" A ninja can generate chakra and focus it in different parts of their, so why not these nose, ears or eyes? Other than Kakashi being said to have a better sense of smell than Pre-TS Kiba, there are no examples of it but I just find it difficult to believe other people can't do it.

    Bear in mind, they're in an underground room. It could simply be a result of having all that people in an enclosed space whereas Naruto's been outside the entire time. Plus what Hashirama did was deliberate so it probably doesn't happen when he's just creating and using chakra in a fight, which is what Naruto's doing.

    The fact that he's a sensor would mean he knows what he's talking about. The requirement of having to actively use your chakra to sense would work in how you ninja can sneak around anyway.

    And I think that the ground touching thing actually something different to chakra sensing. Minato does the same in the Kakashi Gaiden, who I don't think has been called a sensor. No-one else, sensor of non-sensor, ever does it and how it works isn't explained. In Hashirama's flashback, it seems that Tobirama's sensing would be no different than anyone else and I think he was doing some sensing whilst in the shrine (Edit: Okay, that's not the case. They just sensed Naruto's massive chakra).

    Fair point. Though it'd be strange that numerous people have chakra sensing skills whilst only two can hide it.

    Yes, because it's canon. ;)

    I think it's brought up at the start of the tree walking training but everyone produces a small amount of chakra. What makes ninja ninja is that they learn to generate additional chakra to be used.

    I took that scene as something for reader's benefit rather than something Naruto saw. What Naruto felt was all kinds of people, including his friends, fighting and dying in a huge battle. The panels involved are just so we can see what Naruto's feeling since it's a manga which is primarily visual. Same with that scene where Sasuke can apparently see those Deidara bombs in his bloodstreams; imo, that was for the reader's benefit whilst all Sasuke could see is thousands of specks of Deidara's chakra within his own chakra.

    Agreed on all fronts. I thought of that "it gets harder each time" myself which could be interesting, or it could be that an individual's talent differs for each element. Someone could be terrible at the elements they don't have an affinity for, or they could neutral or good or it could be a mixed bag.

    You've touched on a lot of the thoughts I've had about Juugo. I see him as an Imperfect Sage like Jiraiya, except he lacks any of the training and knowledge involved. It's just a natural part of him so it backfires. With help, I came up with a theory on where he comes from and how his powers work in TFF's Naruversity thread.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  16. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Auror

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    I've got a few points from early Naruto that seem to be glossed over or ignored in fandom. Not sure if it's intentional or not.

    Chakra is Invisible, and Intangible at Lower Concentrations:
    Remember back when Kakashi first unveiled his Raikiri at Zabuza and how it was such a big deal that it was visible? How about when Jiraiya was asking Naruto for a description of the few times he'd pulled out the Kyuubi's chakra, and it wasn't until he told him to think of the different chakras as colors (not what color they were, but to think of them as such) that he described it as such (interesting point, chakra was supposed to be yellow, not blue initially)?

    This is because chakra is naturally invisible, as it has no physical form (also why the chakra circulatory system can't be seen without aid of the Byakugan.) So chakra that is un-natured (wind, water, fire, etc.) is invisible. At higher concentrations it starts to become visible as a haze or distortion in the air (the Hokage vs Orochimaru fight, when Naruto unleashed the Kyuubi on Haku, Kakashi's Raikiri, etc.), and might begin to affect the matter around it (cracked tiles during the Hokage vs Oro fight). Chakra also cannot be cut or damaged by simple means (the Hyuuga Kaiten technique, that one filler arc with the fake Kabuto that needed the charm on the kunai to cut the chakra heart-strings).

    The colors chakra in the anime and manga is literary short-hand to show the audience that something is happening, not the characters. That also means that the rasengan is not a swirling blue ball, but most likely closer to the original Japanese 'Fighting Dreamers' opening, with the swirling distortion.

    Chakra does not exist as a pool, but as separate ingredients that when mixed, produce chakra:
    This goes back to Ebisu teaching Naruto water-walking. During his explanation of how chakra works, he mentioned that in order to use chakra, you must draw out the yin and the yang chakras and mix them before expelling them into a jutsu. Draw too much yin or yang, or create too much chakra for the jutsu, and the excess is wasted (hinted at being 'lost' to the air or something, as opposed to returning to the body). And if the chakra isn't used effectively in the creation of the jutsu, it too is wasted.

    It's assumed on my part that since the chakra circulatory system occurs naturally in the body, that the body does naturally produce a small amount of chakra constantly in order to keep the body's functions running. This would account for the 'chakra sense' that some people have, provide a use for the system itself, as well as explain why using up too much chakra kills you.

    -----------

    A few points on topics already brought up:

    -Minato can also pull off the sense people by touching the ground thing. He did it in Kakashi Gaiden.
    -I assumed that when the Shodai did his chakra glare, the reason the ground and walls broke was caused by his Mokuton-natured chakra causing the wood in the floorboards and wall-supports to warp.
    -Chakra rule number what-ever that mentioned the special circulatory system for elemental kekkai genkai wouldn't work for Shezza. What with the whole Sandaime pulling off multiple-layered/natured chakra techniques in a single non-bloodline body.

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    A few rules/thoughts I had come up with before:

    The Eight Celestial Gates allow the cells of a body to use more chakra than they are allowed.
    The Gates were mentioned to remove limiters on the human body, allowing him to use more chakra than normal. A few authors took this to mean that shinobi could use more chakra in jutsu, leading to in at least one instance an eighty-meter Rasengan (before the showing of Sage Mode too, I might add). This is probably not the case.

    The mental limited likely limit the amount of chakra each cell can consume in its use. Moving your body or flooding you limbs with chakra will enhance your strength up until the point that your brain says no more, I can't take it. Unlocking the Gates allows you to break past this limiter, and infuse your cells with progressively more and more chakra. But since this chakra is over the damage threshold, it begins to damage the tissue. Cells burst due to over-flooding, muscles become stronger than tendons and rip free, the heart and lungs pump into over-drive and begin to fail, nerves begin to fry, calories are being burned up like the Griswolds' electricity meter in Christmas Vacation. As you get farther and farther down the Gates, more damage is cause until by the final gate it is catastrophic. THAT is what happens when the Gates are opened.
     
  17. knight504

    knight504 The Chosen One

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    I think the Rasengan could be visible due to the amount of power used and its compressed nature. And I like the Gates rule.

    Omoi was able to cut chakra threads with just his sword though Sasori might have implied you need some skill to do it.

    Wouldn't it? I thought Shezza's version basically has Sarutobi create different types of chakra consecutively and then release them one after another. A bloodline user could create them at the same time and release them at the same time (the second half being the most significant factor).
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  18. chaosfire999

    chaosfire999 Groundskeeper

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    Regarding the Eight Celestial Gates. I know my theory so far is a bit contradictory with the one you guys are throwing together, but you lot mentioned that people each have a certain backdrop of Chakra, this is what resists foreign Chakra (the fireball example from earlier). It doesn't work for my stuff but would the Eight Celestial gates basically be taking this 'backdrop' Chakra and converting it into usable Chakra.

    It starts damaging the body because there is no longer any defense against Chakra in the cells, including your own Chakra.

    Tonight I'll see if I can revise my shit to take into account all the phenomena you lot have mentioned, make it a more attractive theory :p
     
  19. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    I don't know if my interpretation agrees with what Shezza has in mind, but...

    "Chakra" name derives from the Sanskrit word for "wheel" or "turning".

    I don't know much about Indian Buddhism or the actual way chakra works. I could sit down and try to read some stuff on the manner, but any site I find on Indian Buddhism starts throwing more and more vocabulary at you before you can even get anywhere. But anyway, because of the "wheel" motif, I equate chakra with the concept of change; the wheel of life.

    Secondly, I don't follow Naruto anymore. In my mind, the series ends at Part I. And if you want to try and rigorously define what chakra is in the sense of the Naruto universe, you have to acknowledge that it's a magical system which requires it be in-tune with that universe. Basically what I mean is, Naruto isn't an existential story about the nature of truth, so while it's a little hard to pin down what chakra should be, it is important to make sure it sticks with Naruto's thematic elements. Whatever those may be, Naruto isn't a serious story by anyone's imagination, so it's tough to give the system a serious meaning.

    But I guess if it does have a 'theme', that it would be the first Sage. He "created" ninjutsu, after all, so any attempt to define what chakra is, should use him as an origin. You should probably treat this Sage as though he were Buddha himself, as some seem to worship him that way in the series?

    "In the beginning, many thousands of years ago, in a time of great war and strife, the Great Sage was born. Although we do not know much of his life, we can discern from his followers that it a culmination of tragedy and violence. The Great Sage was inspired to bring about change in the world, and so chakra came about as his vessel of change."

    I: Chakra is infinite. It cannot be destroyed or created, but it flows. Chakra is like a river, always changing, always moving. When you die, your chakra is dispersed into the world, and when you generate chakra, it comes from the death of other things in your habitat.

    One would think this would mean that a concentration of shinobi in one area could drain an area of its chakra, but this isn't the case. Chakra moves in the world like wind, if many chakra users congregate in one area, it means chakra too will congregate there, instead of other places. If a chakra-vaccuum is created, it won't last long.

    II: Chakra is a vessel of change. It cannot create anything, it cannot destroy anything, it can only bring about change. When one 'creates' fire through chakra, they have ignited the oxygen in the air, their chakra having changed the proper amount of stuff in the air to fuel, while keeping the rest air, so that there is a balanced air/fuel mixture sufficient for combustion. When one 'creates' water through chakra, they have changed the hydrogen and oxygen composition of the air, separating and combining the necessary elements. When one 'creates' wind through chakra, they have changed the density of the air in certain places, creating channels for which gusts to move naturally and with great strength. When one 'creates' earth through chakra, they have pulled it up from the ground itself, given it will by 'creating' faults in the ground. Everything is preserved, but everything changes. In essence, a bit of a paradox - everything stays the same by changing.

    III: No 'hand signs' or 'words' or 'techniques' are actually required to utilize chakra. A master of chakra need only their spirit. Performing something with chakra requires someone have strong talent in being able to 'visualize' with one's mind. Signs and symbols are useful in cultivating the right frame of mind to perform a technique; the right frame of mind might be impossible to acquire in-combat, so words and actions are useful in performing chakra techniques in stressful situations; but they are never required.

    IV: Bloodlines all hail from the Sage. There are no actual "demons". Bloodlines may become perverted/polluted through natural corruption of genetics or spirit, but bloodlines provide the unique manipulation of certain things with chakra, because the Sage was perfect at manipulating all aspects of chakra. The Sage could change anything; those with a bloodline can perfect the ability to perfectly change some thing with their chakra.

    V: The capacity to 'hold' chakra in one's body is determined by one's strength of body, strength of spirit, and strength of mind. What is "strength"? That's a little more open to interpretation; Sakura was very book-smart, but that was it - her mental strength was actually very weak (as she was a child) - it's why her chakra reserves were so small in the beginning. Anyone has the potential to store as much chakra as Naruto does, however, attaining his levels of chakra would require countless centuries of meditation and refinement in body, mind, and spirit. The Kyuubi is something of an ancient entity given life by the Sage, so it has the potential to store vast amounts of chakra. Chakra can be "used up" in the body, emptying it of its chakra, but the body, while it lives, is a natural vessel for it. Resting and recovering allows chakra to properly enter the body, refilling its stores.

    VI: The mind shapes chakra. The spirit molds chakra. The body exerts chakra. "Molding" is the act of preparing chakra for use; it is during this state that natural chakra gains its affinity. If the user's spirit is wind-oriented, chakra will be mold into a state where it is most easily used to manipulate wind. "Shaping" is when one visualizes what the chakra will do once it leaves the body, using handsigns/shouts, one can bypass actually visualizing something, the mind 'storing' the concept with the symbol. "Exerting" is pushing chakra through tenketsu in the desired shape and manner. A master of chakra then, is not deficient in any aspect of themself. Lee cannot "exert" chakra very well, but he can perform the first two stages fine.

    Anyway, that's my intepretation and how I generally aim to write whatever I do, about the Narutoverse.
     
  20. Lamora

    Lamora Definitely Not Batman

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    Rule Zero: Naruto is not out of chakra. Ever.