In a game of F7, where I expected GH to flip scum, Rubicon I would never Lynch because there was No way I could see him with GH. Since GH flipped town, I'm probably seriously misreading something, and then the whole exchange thing where I voted him pinged me as something I think scum Rubicon would do.

 

Sorry about the formatting/lack of clear wording on the last one by the way. Was really hard to mentally organize when writing it and I think it comes across :|.

Fable/Rubicon

I wish I'd had the lived experience of being scum with the same person in back-to-back games because I'm not totally sure what to make of their behavior around each other, esp. early on, in light of that. Rubi dumping on his partner's strategy to subvert past DLP meta as early as #104-#109 seems pretty harsh, although light scumreads based on meta are definitely in Rubi's distancing playbook (burned me before).

I mildly liked this when they were discussing their meta early on. Tonal depth is the best way I can describe it.

-
One problem is that Fable's thing with looking into Rubicon's meta is something I can see being motivated by trying to unalign them. Even hardbussing wouldn't actually help them two in particular much due to reputation. If that is their game plan, though, I am not sure that conversation happens in tandem with the early distancing by Rubicon - their early interactions in general seemed natural/nuanced.

They /have/ kept each other well out of the PoE for the entire game (besides, arguably, today on Fable's end). And they also just haven't interacted a ton in general, which Fable's stated he probably wouldn't with a buddy. In my experience Rubicon tends more toward forcing interactions with buddies (although, Rubicon tends to make more of a point of interacting with Fable than the other way around?? lmao). When they do interact, though, I do mostly like it??

This is light but I feel like if they're buddies Rubicon is less likely to self-ID his towniness by how his scumbuddy has previously worded it this game.

This one at EOD2 gets posted in scumchat instead, right? Or has more words to it, since it's not like scum is just thinking <name> with partner TMI.

I don't really have a strong feeling about this entrance to D3/followup on the above either way but felt like I should include it anyway in case I'm missing something.

The tone here seems super neutral in a way that I think is hard to post if you already know the person's doing this as an excuse.

...Apparently I found very little Fable's said about Rubicon this game at all quotable.

 

This is really, really scummy.

 

Six hours left!

 

This appears to be the core of your case on me? That read wasn't about Miner. That was my point. GH's read on me, as expressed in his posts, wasn't just based on interactions with Miner... he was actually coming up with stuff about me that he said was questionable on its own, then acting like the read was fully conditional on a Miner flip and he would clear me if Miner was town.

That made no sense to me. I thought it was a scummy and mechanical way of putting together his reads.

Well yeah dude, we know that now. Thanks for the reminder.
That wasn't what he'd actually used his words to express at the time, though.

Will dig into this wallpost deeper after I've had some breakfast.

 

+?

Super light, but #thescumclaimswag. ...Rubicon/miner rand in a game with fonti is actually a sad situation to be in, so I can actually see it. lmao

-

I do think that miner could have coached Rubicon in private to notice this/that the initial banter could have been planned, but I like (in terms of them not being w/w) that miner didn't explain until D2 that he was townreading Rubi for this reason. miner just gave some allusion to Rubicon confusing him during D1.

- That being said, I found this bit of banter from miner's end actively not partnery? The mindset with it doesn't feel scum theater-y.

- Rubicon's D2 push doesn't feel overexplained - seems more internal than external.

He sets his default for that Day as a miner lynch; initially rejecting a fluff CFD and finally moving to GH after spending real-time trying to resolve GH, rather than trying to, like, bury miner further.

+ I feel like it's mildly partnery for miner to be defending both himself and Rubicon most strongly via the nightkills.

- For some reason I sorta believe miner when he's like, uh, Rubicon and I are /never/ a team. Maybe it's mere exposure effect.

+ I found this line of questioning about me interesting (partly because I'm self-centered).

Am still wondering what Rubicon's thought process here was (was the implication that miner and I are aligned?), and when I invited him to talk about it, he didn't pick it up. Which just for that I feel like is more partner-y than not. There's a coldness to the last bit that is almost prosecutorial, which...now that I think about it, I feel like Rubi's been chillier to miner than anyone in particular this game. This comes to mind from D1:

I think this is more likely a thought that comes to mind when unaligned? The alternative is, uh, pettier than I think these two would be. Tend to think Rubi is more aggro as town in any case.

- Regarding the "soft defense thing with asking GH to push Rubi directly rather than tie him to miner, I disagree with Asmo that it is a "soft defense"?

Seems like a philosophical disagreement. If anything, it puts more pressure on Rubicon/miner as a pair, and is more complicated/thoughtful than I would expect from that.

+ It is unclear to me how Rubicon ended up having GH lower than miner on D3.

+?

I...don't believe this is The Moment it came together for Miner that Rubicon was likely enough scum to deserve a vote, under the assumption that 3=hardlynch. Not only that, but for obvious reasons it's less dangerous for scum to vote early. Potential for w/w, particularly with miner's convenient flip to Fable.
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^ Er, forgot the title.

Still should be obviously a Rubicon/miner post.
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.-.

 

filler?

 

Asmodeus/Fable

This is the weird world where one of the driving forces behind the Fable-is-a-good-wolf thing is his partner. I feel like Asmo went from townreading Fable D1-D2 to forcing Fable into the tail end of most of his scumpairs D3, but all throughout there was doubtcasting about Fable coasting. (I....really hope this isn't the team because I kinda feel like I'm walking on eggshells around the implications of that <_<). I do feel like TMI would lead itself to Asmo putting something besides "I like all of Fable's posts but <he's a good wolf> or <he's coasting>" as his read on Fable in readwalls. Would take a certain level of mental gymnastics.

There's a lot less here than between either other possible Asmo pair, and what interactions they have, feel like Asmo's going out of his way to have them a lot of the time? One of those moments was Asmo pinging Fable about his exp with fonti early-mid D1. Another is him pinging out Fable about the apparent contradiction w/r/t me that fluff found.

+ (Although in the case of the latter, this feels more aggressive than I think it typically would as w/w.)

- Light, but Asmo makes a point on D2 of making Fable justify lack of follow-up on GH read and Fable makes a point of making Asmo justify his progression on Beruru; these felt non-softbally.

+ Asmo tying Fable so strongly to the GH scumflip (but wanting to lynch GH first) as well as bears, and then looking at Fable primarily in terms of Rubicon, is particularly scumsided in this world.

+ The "non-agenda-y" post counts Fable posts are great for this pair in particular. It's like, subtle propaganda.

+ Fable's MSPA read on Asmo this phase feels a bit cherry picked.
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I just had a massive panic of "how the fuck is day over."

But besides that, thanks.

 

Lol

Also that post count theory is great and I'm noting it for later games......if I ever get a wolf teammate that's active.
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Also delphine's posts are making me feel like I barely have any interactions with anyone. ._.

 

More propaganda. /s

In all seriousness, I kinda believe this thought.
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A lot of them were with/about Fluff or Jan

 

Explain. You could have literally quoted any post in this game and said exactly what you said and I wouldn't have been any better off in figuring you out. Why is that "really really scummy?"

What? How did you get that? I even summarized my read at the bottom. Can you actually answer the questions there though (just CTRL+F "@Rubicon" in that post for questions. #806 and #1391 are most important)

I wrote a bit about things that bother me most about you in the conclusion of that post. Here:

 

So.

I actually just don't believe in Asmodeus/Rubicon for several reasons.

I ultimately don't think that miner ever plays out EOD2 that way if Fable's his partner.

I feel like if Fable is mafia it's more likely with Rubicon, because I think that that best explains why as scum he would have done the thing (checking his bears read). Asmo/Fable makes a certain amount of sense with nightkills and why my head hurts so much, but less with Asmo's mindset and Fable's emotional trajectory.

Rubicon/miner I'm considering, especially since GH felt so strongly about it. Rubicon's D2 and D3 progression on miner and I'm not actually seeing much that's partner indicative other than ultimately Rubicon just pushing GH more than miner D3.

Asmo/miner have the most convoluted interactions to me on both their ends and I feel like unless I'm drastically misunderstanding things, at least one if not both are mafia. My main hesistance there is Asmo burying miner with meta no one was expecting him to provide.

After I digest my dinner, I'm going to more fully digest Asmo's recent wall.

 

Fair. I hate the "if she is she deserves the win" thing, but I can't even blame you for it because I've thought the same thing myself at different points of game.
I'm jealous of the luxury you have if you're town. For me, the PoE isn't as clear cut because there's nothing that prevents Rubi/Fable from being a world, so I keep getting scared and coming back to that every time the universality of a Miner lynch becomes clear.
I just hope you're right.

 

I'm actually tilted that whoever is scum here decided that they can't fake a scumread on me well enough to push it today but still didn't respect me enough to kill me.
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I'm having to restrain myself from Garciaing. Must be a good breakfast.

This is...not the actual order this stuff happened in, and I feel like the order is important?
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I'm most interested in how Asmo fell down in Rubicon's reads, of anything.
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I was like, where the hell are you getting hypeball from Rubi's iso in Mountainous 1, but it's definitely there on page 4 and 5 (D1).

Not something I'd consider a cornerstone of his town meta? Though he does have a strong alignment preference for town.

 

Someone is eventually going to have to explain to me what "garciaing" is.

 

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I feel like I finally understand how Beruru felt this whole game.

 

That soft-defense of Miner is real. And really scummy.

I read that thing as the core of your argument because it's the most concrete part and the thing you spend the most time talking about.

The rest appears to be, (1) Rubicon didn't explain some of his reads in enough detail for me, (2) Rubicon pushes his reads with confidence, (3) Rubicon is being more serious than usual, (4) OMGUS, and (5) you don't believe I scumread you.

But I'll have computer access in an hour or so (about to get on a bus) and will try to respond in more detail to each of those points and any others I missed.

 

So miner is totally in antispew mode right now right?

 

Also Asmo, you definitely are misreading my Fable read if you think Miner is doing the same thing.

 

GH explicitly said he was changing his approach to fit site meta. That looked off because I don't understand why town changes a successful meta just for the purpose of fitting in. It looked to be more likely that scum would want to fit in, and more likely to change their approach "to fit site meta".
Miner just said he was trying something new. There's an inherent difference between that and deliberately trying to fit sitemeta, which I still don't quite understand the motivation behind.

Probably too tunneled in on GH/Fable at the time to properly consider the possibility that Rubi bussed Miner

I wish you had asked me this at the time. I can't honestly answer with certainty, but in looking back I'd guess #1291? I remember liking the "alarm bells when fluff gets piled on" bit, but don't remember if that's the only thing.

[/quote]
#1367 is Beru saying "Night y'all."
#1467 is a Fable postcount.
#1466 is you analyzing Asmo/Rubi, which is never a thing tbqh, and Fable/Miner, which I read. What's there to comment on?
Why would I be "walking on eggshells" around you because of an analysis you did that concluded I'm not aligned with Rubi?