I so looked forward to this movie... And Rowling bloody HAD to reduce Grindelwald from being a charismatic revolutionary who truly believed what he did was for the Greater Good to becoming Voldemort before Voldemort, with his motto being a manipulative lie and the plan to "destroy Muggles" as opposed to rule over them being something he and his followers shouldn't say out loud... What a elfin' joke...

 

You are not wrong. However, in this particular case, and with the peculiarities of Wizarding Britain as presented in the books, and even the Potter films (which I wouldn‘t treat as canon in any way)… it does ring somewhat hollow for me.

I may have mentioned this before somewhere, but I think one of the biggest issues the Fantastic Beasts series has in general is its lack of source material. There are no references for these films to follow except their own precursors, and while this can certainly lead to the development of a certain own brand of visual style, it also brings forth issues such as this one. It is my understanding that the Fantastic Beasts films are, contrary to the Potter films, canon works on the same level as the seven books, but by the sheer limitations of the medium they lack the depth and world-building that would usually go along with such a burden. The discrepancy is more than noticeable.

 

I am deeply baffled. JK shall henceforth be known as Joke Rowling, because she just went full Ruin Johson. I think this movie might be the TLJ of Potterverse.

Spoiler

Short version: everything good in the movie came from the film crew. Everything bad came from Joke Rowling.

How do I begin to unpack this...

For a film named after Grindelwald, there wasn't a lot of Grindelwald in it. The saving grace is that when he was on screen, he owned it. I'm separating Johnny Depp the actor from Johnny Depp the person. He was great. Yates really showed Grindelwald's power on the screen. Also, what crimes? Yeah, I get it, he casually murders people, but that's just a basic villain thing that villains do. He spent the film househunting and on a hiring spree.

After the rapport they built in the first film, Tina sees a picture and unloads jealousy. She gets a boyfriend to seemingly spite Newt (?) even though he's an ocean away, starts calling him Mr. Scamander when they see each other again. She also gets kidnapped and basically does nothing in the film. Might as well have not been in it.

The above is less Tina's fault and pretty much entirely Joke's. Too many damn characters. Too much useless garbage. The whole Nagini thing. She does nothing in the film. Her only purpose is to be a tie-in into the original books. She should not have been in the film at all. That would also eliminate the entire circus bit, freeing up runtime for Queenie's corruption, which was rather interesting, but criminally underdeveloped and shoved into five minutes.

This is where I will use TLJ to make my point: Leta Lestrange is this movie's Amilyn Holdo. She shows up and dies in the same film, there's some hamfisted detail to give her "weight" before she's killed for a revenge boner for the Scamanders, I guess? Okay, now they have a personal stake in Grindelwald's defeat, but this could have been accomplished in a much better way. For example, Grindelwald challenges Newt to a duel after his escape to retake the Elder Wand's allegiance (this even doubles as a tie-in, see?), and perhaps kills a bunch of Newt's creatures or another character in the process. Hell, even use Leta here, if you really want to. Boom, Newt has a personal motivation.

I hate everything to do with the Lestrange nonsense. The dumb backstory. The baby-swap. The fact that they were going to America on a muggle ship, for some fucking reason. The clumsy exposition dump just before the finale. The Yusuf guy and his whole role in this. The prophecy. And the way it was written, acted, and put into the film. All of it is irredeemably stupid. Not to mention that Yusuf reduces Tina to The Girl Who Gets Kidnapped, and takes up more screentime with his dumb revenge plot that the audience has no stake in.

What the hell, Joke Rowling? Where is the writer who crafted the mysteries of the first three Potter books?

The asshole auror with mood whiplash. "plz fight Grinderwald. no? okay, magic handcuffs, i dont like u"

The entire timeline is fucked simply by setting it in the 1920s. All JK had to do was move Grindelwald's rise up ~15 years and there is no 20 year gap between Grindelwald's coming out and Dumbledore's going to finally deal with him, which now has to be fixed with the blood pact. Otoh, I actually like the blood pact better than the possibility that Dumbledore would wait decades to fight Grindelwald because they hooked up one summer when they were teenagers.

I'll give the movie a pass and assume that Obliviation was employed on muggles who saw the boar-dragon-cat, but what was the deal with the black tarps? Not that it wasn't a cool visual, but was that also enchanted to be invisible to muggles? Although I'd actually be down with Grindelwald just shitting on the Statute, but we weren't shown anything to suggest that this had any effect at all.

The whole rally scene was great, down to the skullbong. Credit where credit is due.

Now time to shit on the director. Editing in those coolest scenes (the escape and the Fiendfyre) was fucked, I could't see a goddamn thing. At least the fire lit up the screen, but the escape was just horrible. The screen was almost entirely black, and then lightning flashes had me blinking and blinded. This movie is going to give some poor fucker an epileptic episode.

As much as I defended the wizard fashion in the other movies, I have to agree with the consesus here. Grindelwald, Nagini, Grindelwald's followers were fine. Even Newt had his coat. But the Ministry people and fucking Dumbledore just wore entirely muggle suits. I'm down with pants and a waistcoat, Albus, but goddamn, throw on a wizard cloak or something.

McGonagall was also in the movie for the sole purpose of being a tie-in. Fuck that.

I'm not leaning either way on Flamel. Too much other shit to rant about.

As for the twist. How in the fuck is there a third Dumbledore brother? That was so sloppy that I'm not sure Joke Rowling isn't gonna pull a "lol jk" in FB3. I agree with everything @Pirazy wrote about Credence.

Ultimately, the film is dragged down by Joke's insistence on shoving in references to the original books to the detriment of everything else: characters established in FB1, plot, and pacing.

It pains me to say it, but I don't like this movie. And I don't see my opinion of it improving tbh. In the broader picture, it just seems to continue the trend of everything after the original books being progressively bonkers.

Edit:

Spoiler

The only way I see the twist working is if Grindelwald is lying. But, Leta would have to be lying or just wrong as well. Maybe she wanted to protect Credence, which, if he is indeed Corvus Lestrange, could work.

It's dumb as fuck and so it the infodump scene.

 

I haven't watched the movie (no interest to support it) but I was wondering how is Credence a Dumbledore? Wiki says Credence was born 1904 and Albus' parents died before 20th century. Also what did McGonagall do in the movie, was she timetraveling or something because if I'm understanding this correctly she's teaching before being born.

 

That's what we're all wondering. Also, mark your comment as spoilers, my man.

 

I don’t think we‘re going to agree on TLJ‘s merits as a film (as I do believe that, despite its obvious flaws, it has redeeming features), but one interesting parallel – or lack thereof, I suppose – is its and TCOG’s inverse critics/audience split. While TLJ garnered applause by critics (91% on RottenTomatoes), TCOG did not. In fact, it is by far the worst HP/FB film at 45%. For audiences, on the other hand, the effect is reversed. TLJ holds a 45% audience score (no doubt somewhat inflated, but nonetheless much lower than the critics‘ consensus), while TCOG‘s score here is 74%.

It would appear that, just as a certain group of Star Wars fans used TLJ‘s dubious and certainly divisive qualities as a scapegoat for all that they perceived to be wrong with Disney‘s Star Wars (as I said, not going to get into that here beyond the mere statement of fact), the more vocal part of the Harry Potter fandom is sufficiently happy with Rowling‘s and Yates‘ latest effort.

The latter is also something I‘ve noticed on social media, particularly Twitter. It has become a bit of a pastime of mine to look out for audience reactions on the social media platforms I‘m active on, and right now, there still appears to be a lot of hype about TCOG from casual fans, while more elaborate reactions are usually far more critical. This is certainly worth watching.


And, on a final note, I actually bought the screenplay for TCOG today, both because I really like the cover & to see whether I can extract some further observations from it that go beyond the consensus that both the number of characters and plots are bloated.

 

Just finished watching the film, and while I did enjoy it, I do have a few thoughts:

Spoiler: Spoilers for FB2

Okay, let me just say that while I did enjoy the movie, I did feel like there were quite a few flaws with the films story. The story I feel was held back by the film format, as it felt like Rowling was trying to tell a novel in a film. So many problems with this films story could have been solved if this had been a book instead of a movie.

Anyways, I wanted to talk a bit about the ‘twist’ concerning Credence. Is it just me, or does anyone else think JK is going to retcon the date of Ariana’s death, and make Credence her son? I don’t know why, but I just have this gut feeling that if Grindelwald (who by the way, Depp was great in this movie) turns out to have been telling the truth, JK is going to retcon Credence as Ariana’s son, despite it making no sense. Though it would explain why he’s so unique and powerful, if he’s the child of a Obscurus, not a complete Obscusus himself.

Though I admittedly do also have my doubts that Credence even is a Dumbledore. In the first FB film, he didn’t know who the Obscurial was, yet he somehow knows Credence’s real identity? It’s just very weird.

Other than that, I liked the Queenie stuff, enjoyed the blood pact twist (though wouldn’t Dumbledore and Grindelwald have had the blood pack already in the fateful duel that killed Ariana? My only theory is that maybe she died because Dumbledore tried to fight Grindelwald while the blood pact was intact), and Dumbledore in general. Also, Nagini felt way too much like she was here to set up future films. While it’s cool to see she seems to have once worked with Dumbledore, it seems like Nagini is only now at Hogwarts probably solely so she can meet Tom Riddle in the future.

My final note is that I didn’t mind McGonagall as a teacher here. As far as I’m aware, her exact age was only established in Pottermore, not the books, so JK is only retconing that. Plus the idea that she likely taught Tom Riddle was interesting.

Though, isn’t McGonagall technically now out of a job? I mean, that Ministry dude who handcuffs Dumbledore out of spite says as punishment Dumbledore can no longer work as DADA professor. Assumably then, this leads to Dumbledore going to work as the schools Transfiguration professor, but in that case, what job does McGonagall have now?

 

Sounds like Rowling triedto do too much.

Once again, Rowling created a fantastic world, but doesn't know how to maintain internal consistency.

 

Saw it tonight. Overall impression: underwhelmed but not terrible.

Spoiler

Things I liked:

- Grindelwald. His charisma, use of magic, the many ways the film distinguished his philosophy from that of Voldemort.

- French Ministry and the cat protective spirits.

- Newt's forensic magic.

- Use of the Shield Charm by the unnamed Ministry wizard who found Credence and Nagini.

- The scale of the Fiendfyre, capable of destroying Paris if left unchecked (assuming it was in fact Fiendfyre).

- The blood pact. Adds substance to Dumbledore's inability to confront Grindelwald.

- The creatures. They were pretty much all well-used.

- Skull vision thing of World War 2 (but see below).

- Depiction of Flamel.

- The humour. The "eyes like a Salamander" running gag was good, I thought, especially in its culmination where Tina basically drags it out of him.

- The fact that phoenixes come into existence under certain conditions rather than being born via biological reproduction.

- Newt's house.

Things I disliked:

- The Credence Dumbledore reveal. I don't have a problem with Credence being related to someone famous in principle. I don't even object on a fundamental level to him being a Dumbledore, though it's a bit "everyone important is a Skywalker" for my taste. It's the particular way in which he is related to Dumbledore which just doesn't make sense within the established Dumbledore family history.

- The Lestrange mystery. This was an answer without a question, I thought. JKR has historically been very good at developing mysteries, but she just didn't do the groundwork here. We were being asked to care about the mystery of a character's past very shortly after being introduced to that character for the first time. I just didn't care, and once all was revealed it turned out that it had zero connection to the main plot of Credence's past. I guess it was meant to be a red herring, but I don't think anyone ever really fell for it.

- None of the Aurors try an unblockable Killing Curse through the wall of fire, despite it being used liberally through the rest of the film. It wouldn't have worked, of course, but I would have preferred for the film to take a moment to establish that Grindelwald had an answer for that particular attack.

- Queenie joining Grindelwald. You saw it coming a mile off -- basically as soon as Grindelwald's ladyfollower (did we ever get her name?) took her in. But she seems to have had a complete character transplant in this film.

- Grindelwald's line about Muggles turning their weapons on wizards. It doesn't amount to much, as the power of magic as depicted in the film only adds to the wizards' advantages, but it's still a frustrating line that will feed certain sections of the fandom.

- The lady next to me in the cinema who kept on shouting out her reactions.

Things I am ambivalent about which other people comment upon:

- McGonagall. Her age has gone back and forth a few times, so I have no problem with it being adjusted yet again. In fact I prefer her older, as it helps stress the slower rate of aging of wizards.

- Magic cuffs. So far as I can tell, they just monitor your magic use, they can't stop you from casting magic.

So yeah, I'd give it maybe a 7/10. As predicted: good worldbuilding, okay characters, weak plot. As a fan of the franchise the worldbuilding is enough for me to enjoy it, but I can see how more casual fans would rate it lower.

Either way, like it or not, I think we can all agree that ScottPress' post is extremely juvenile. It's basically an indy!Harry rant complete with jewels like "Order of the Fried Chicken" and "Moldyshorts". You stay classy, San Diego.

 

Sorry, what.

 

Pretty sure I missed this part. What did he do with the Shield Charm?

 

He means your "witty" firstgrader names like Joke Rowling and Ruin Johnson that shit made me cringe, the actual review wasn't bad.

 

edit: I suppose this is a spoiler, so spoilered.

Spoiler

His Shield Charm was a colorless sphere around him and tanked everything Credence threw at it like a boss, both the Obscurial smoke magic and the bajillion pieces of lethal debris. If you see FB as canon, that's a final confirmation on "does the Shield Charm protect from physical attacks".

edit: also that the Shield Charm can be modified by the user

 

Spoiler

So Dumbledore and Grindelwald made a blood pact to never fight each other... how did they fight/kill over Ariana? From what was implied Dumbledore could literally not fight Grindelwald.

Yet that can't track, either he can't at all, or he can, in which case the pack is useless. Unless Grindelwald fled he came back to make a pack and then fled again.

Another way this counters canon.

 

Spoiler: Spoiler

I see it like the whole Priori Incantatem shlong. Basically the can defend, attack, but not kill. My biggest thing is the Credence Dumbledrore shtick. The series has a lot of things to reexplain.

I went to see this movie for the Harry Potter World experience and nothing more. If your looking to dissect the whole damn thing you'll ruin it. all in all. 10/10 for me

 

Ha, that's exactly the problem--throwbacks to the Harry Potter series that result in useless baggage that drags down this new series of stories. JK is afraid to let FB stands on its own and throws in constant reminders. "This is related to those Harry Potter books you read ten years ago, see?"

 

I hold out the hope that this is the end of that. We have what 4 more movies to see?

 

Three more. Five total. I absolutely expect JKR to double down on being afraid to let her new work stand tall on its own merit. FB3 will delve into how Nagini banged Leta's dad just before going Solid Snake and that union produces the Black sisters (nevermind that it would be after 1945) and flashforward scenes to how Bellatrix went about hiding the Cup in Gringotts. Another horcrux tie-in FTW.

Spoiler

One more thing I forgot about: the scene in Newt's house.

Now, the suitcase scene in FB1 was not just great visually. It was also important to the plot. It explained Newt's motivation for coming to America, acquainted the audience with an obscurus, firmly established Newt's character and love of magical creatures, introduced the creatures that would escape from the suitcase, and brought along Jacob, another main character. And it was given ample time to do all that.

The scene in Newt's house in CoG showed us: Newt's house and a kelpie. Newt's house was not a plot-relevant location, and the kelpie was not a plot-relevant creature. The scene told us nothing about Newt that we didn't already know. It introduced another throwaway character (Bunty) that didn't show up again after that one scene. The scene in Newt's house has no value to the film. It's a bit of worldbuilding. You could get away with writing this in in a book, but this was a screenplay.

The scene in Newt's house is useless and should've been cut. We already know Newt's love of beasts and his routine with them, so there was no need to rehash it. This scene, combined with the abysmal infodump about the Lestrange backstory tells me that JKR just isn't a good screenwriter. They really should've brought in an actual screenwriter to redraft JKR's script. As is, David Yates was handed a clumsy script that he did a mostly admirable job of putting on film.

 

I really liked this film. I understand there were editing problems and missing scenes. Hopefully the dvd version will have the longer cut that clearly didn't make it to theaters. But putting all that aside, the wizarding world experience was top notch. The magic, the beasts, the Grindelwald/Dumbledore performances, etc, were all very good. Honestly, the next movie should focus much more on Credence, Gellert, and Albus. This movie started dumping Newt and Tina as main characters (they don't really feel like main characters compared to others), and I hope the next movie goes all the way with it.

One question I couldn't figure out: why does it seem like the British Ministry of Magic people have total control over the confrontation with Grindelwald... in France? Shouldn't the French Ministry or other Ministries from the Continent have sent people. Or was Newt's brother's task force a multi-national one, and we just don't get that explained in the movie. Also one thing I am worried JK might do, but I really hope she doesn't, is to make Grindelwald a Hitler like character. Let him stand on his on.

I thought Depp and Jude Law both gave great performances. I expect them to get better in future movies as they get more lines and scenes.

 

Good point about British in France. Also the Ministry ultimate power over Hogwarts and Dumbledore.

After that twat put the bands on Dumbledore, I was expecting him to wait until they walk out of the room then the bands to pop off his wrists... like they could really keep track of Dumbledore.

If they had that power then Fudge would of used it later.