I have been trying for quite a while to understand why I liked the Harry Potter series - it certainly isn't the best written, it doesn't have very deep ideas that challenge my view of the universe, it doesn't have such unique characters, and it certainly suffers from many problems, which we have frequently delineated and dissembled here ad infinitum.

But after reading that Ginny is a MarySue article, I had a epiphany - I don't love Harry Potter for being flawless; instead I love it for being so flawed. The Harry Potter series has hideous plot holes, wince-worthy dialogue, hackneyed characterizations, cliched plotlines, and oddly enough, an incredibly divisive set of fans. And yet, the story has such incredible potential, and I think I've figured out why. A while ago (pre-Harry Potter) I read the opinion of a fairly prolific fanfic author who explained that he preferred to write fanfiction for series with problems, because there were so many possible ways to attempt to "improve" it.

I think that the Harry Potter world has the potential to become truly wonderful - the trick is figuring out how.

There are so many ideas in the HP books that so often seem skimmed over, or not given enough focus, but truly pique our interest. Some examples:

1) Verbal magic - many people don't really think about this, but a great mystery of Harry Potter is exactly WHY spells based on ancient languages (Latin being the chief one) actually affect reality based on the meaning the words represent. Do Latin spells work everywhere in the world? Do they only work if you speak a Latin-derivative language? Is there a more powerful language - either an older or more modern one? We can debate this issue for hours and never come up with a satisfactory answer - because there is none in the canon. And no one really thinks Rowling thought of a good answer.

2) Silent magic - although we've seen non-verbal magic used in every single book (from more impressive (Voldemort forcing Harry to bow) to less (Dumbledore floating cups around the Dursleys)), there is still a question about whether it is a more evolved form of magic, or a more primitive one. Although JKR threw out some scenes in HBP, it seemed more an afterthought there than anything else.

3) Interbreeding - so can wizards actually interbreed effectively without having problematic offspring (like normal humans would), or are they right - do muggle-born actually make things worse?

4) The rest of the world - wait, exactly what is magical about the rest of the world? Naturally, the UK is large enough to be the settings for many stories, but what do we really know about the rest of the world? Are the majority of powerful magic users in the UK? And what exactly is the Wizengamot anyway?

5) Huh? - and for that matter, what is a Mugwump?

6) Wands - often considered, yet the definitive answer does not exist. Why are wands so effective? Are they the reason magic works for wizardkind, or are they crutches on the path to true magical ability and power?

And this is the one that always intrigues me...
7) Power - I don't think it's any controversy that we are fascinated by stories where the downtrodden or seemingly ordinary become powerful. I think it reflects a desire all people hold, some more transparently than others. Harry really is an idiot sometimes, but yet... he is so relatable. Dropped from a hostile environment where he is all alone into an arguably MORE hostile environment, but is different in a far different way, he still finds ways to rise above his problems and attempt to succeed. I have an almost visceral reaction to the idea of pairing Harry with someone I think is wrong for him, and I know I'm not alone.

To the heterosexuals out there, let me ask this - would you find a story as interesting if it paired up Ron, Neville or ANY other male with multiple women - rather than Harry? I know I wouldn't. Yes, I know there are people out there who would prefer to MarySue themselves into relationships with Ron or Draco, but without any bias, I can say that they are idiots.

It's so easy to imagine Harry as the most powerful one of all - if only he'd get his act together. Whether Harry is an insane despot literally eating the flesh of his enemies, managing an intergalactic harem of women who would love to kill each other, or the typical "slightly above average" Harry Potter who's just trying to stay alive, he still is a very compelling character.


So what the hell am I trying to say anyway after all this nonsense?

There are still so many unsolved mysteries - and so many to go, ones that will be solved. Truthfully, in a way, no matter what happens in the last book, I am filled with joy - because the utter possibilities of what fanfiction could produce give me such great hope, that I can hardly wait to see what happens. So we can finally rip the HP world a new one. And the little slut will enjoy it too. Fanfiction may seem at times to reach new lows - but at the same times, it can only get better. And considering some of the brilliant stories already out there, I can't wait to see what people will write next.

-J

 

Agreed. JKR is pretty much a hack writer, but the sheer vastness and limitless nature of her universe is what draws us in.

 

I gotta agree with you and M1ndless. JKR can't really write, but, much like Star Wars, she's created an universe with numerous possibilities. There could possibily be stories surrounding the creation of the 'Order Of Merlin' award, or how the 'Tri-Wizard Tournament' came to be. Or hell, someone could do a book where they follow every descendent of Slytherin/Gryffindor/Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff/Merlin/[highlylegendarymagician/wizard], it's that vast. The potential the HP-universe holds is truly amazing, especially with all the characters and events that are introduced merely for the sake of forwarding (but more occasionally making it reverse) the plot, or are thrown out there as Red Herrings.

 

I believe it is in the Oxford English Dictionary

But a quick search of Define: mugwump on google yields results like this:

Mugwump is also the name of an early computer game written in BASIC and presented in a book by David H. Ahl, the editor of Creative Computing magazine in the 1980s.

Don't worry it also gives this too:

In politics one afflicted with self-respect and addicted to the vice of independence. A term of contempt. [Ambrose Bierce]

 

I agree with the theme of this, but I think we're not giving JKR enough credit here. Her creation of Harry Potter was a bit like catching lightning in a bottle the way George Lucas did with Star Wars. Relatively simple themes of good and evil, David versus Goliath, that everyone can enjoy but successfully appealing to a massively broad audience spanning the globe and in every age group.

I wouldn't call her brilliant, but she is the one who came across this sort of golden formula for international appeal and interest. It's seems very similar to so many other story lines or themes, the hidden orphan boy hero, a special world beyond the one we all know, a world full of dark and dangerous evil things which our hero must stand up against. These concepts are nothing new, but there's no denying the world she's created is a fantastic playground simply because so many of us can easily envision it, and in the fanfic world so many of us want to play in it and show the world how we would do it "right."

Personally, I think it's that broad appeal towards children and their grandparents alike that leave things open to interpretation so that we can head in whichever direction we want to.

Things like Lord of the Rings are so much more richly crafted and detailed, that it's not canon is perfect so much as there's little left to the imagination.

And fanfiction is about a playground for us fans to use our imagination. We need some structure to interest others who like the same playground, but too much structure and it's just not fun.

 

Quoted for truth.

I completely agree with Jeram about the Harry Potter world having a huge potential for fanfiction readers; but saying that JKR "can't really write" is going too far. Of course I'm not well placed to judge of the quality of a style of writing, but the fact remains that I've immensely enjoyed reading the series, as flawed as they are. Given that I've learnt English by reading her books, my own style was much like hers in my early writings, actually.

JKR is not gifted at romance, granted; she's forgetful and sometimes lacks logic, I agree. But I really doubt any book would survive a thorough analysis by thousands of fans, willing to use the world created by the author in order to write fanfiction.

Lastly, as nonjon said, she was the one imaginative enough to come up with an entire universe, similar enough to the real one so that we can relate to it (unlike the Lord of the Rings, no matter how much I love this book), and original enough to offer endless possibilities we can exploit.

So all this to say, I wouldn't be so arrogant as to call her 'a hack writer', or pretend she created this wonderful world in a fit of sleepwalking. Otherwise, I completely agree with Jeram... Especially when he points out that one of the main reasons why the Harry Potter series are so enjoyable is their main character.

Nothing to add.

 

Honestly, I agree with Jeram on every singe count. However, I find myself commending JKR for creating all these flaws, rather than criticizing her. These flaws are what appeal to our imaginations and draw us into her world. If everything was spelled out and documented, like LotR (as previously stated) the world wouldn't be gripping the edge of its proverbial seat waiting for the next installment. These flaws, plot holes, or whatever you call them, keep the question "Why?" firmly planted in our minds.

Not to mention, of course, the fact that she's the one with the original ideas, and we are the ones piggybacking on her imagination.

 

Well, hmm...

I believe I'm giving JKR an enormous amount of credit, to be honest with you; although I don't think she is the best writer, she clearly has incredible creativity, bringing together ideas from many sources of folklore and mythology into a very unique world.

I wouldn't call her a "hack writer" - she's not exactly terrible. After all, can you imagine what "original" horrors some fanfic writers might come up with? You can bet that her publisher is scared stiff because she plans to end the series - they've already attempted several times to toss out "do you like Harry Potter? Then you'll love Tales of Gooz-Munks!" with limited success. Who knows if we'll ever have a fiction series with the astounding popularity of Harry Potter?

And for the matter, something that could bring together a group like the one at DLP?

-J

 

Point, Point. Wasn't she quoted as saying something along the lines of

or something like that? Obviously it was an inspiration of fairly epic proportions, but what possible thread of amused mental meandering would have brought about the whole thing in a single thought? obviously she had been thinking about writing something...
Right?

 

That's a good point. I think I read somewhere that she wrote notes and brainstorms for Sorcerer's Stone/Philosopher's Stone on napkins at a coffee joint she frequented long before anything was published. I think it's safe to assume that she at least knew she wanted to write something. The question is this: How much of the creative process was inspiration and how much was carefully planned?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugwump

The Mugwumps were a political movement comprising Republicans who supported Democratic candidate Grover Cleveland in the United States presidential election of 1884. They switched parties because they could not in good faith support the Republican candidate, James Blaine of Maine. After the election was over, mugwump survived for more than a decade as an epithet in American politics, and the Mugwumps themselves continued many of their associations as reformers well into the 20th century.

So, Dumbledore was the head of the republicans for Cleveland.

 

There are different shades of brilliant. She isn't brilliant, but like someone said before, she did have a stroke of brilliance in the creation of such a... generic world, one that has something for everybody. The difference is that Artemis Fowl is brilliant (the character, not the series). Harry is not brilliant, but like a Jedi he has brilliant revelations at the right times, as well as more luck than any one person should ever have. (side note: PLEASE don't let this inspire anyone to make another poorly-written HP/SW crossover, that's just the best analogy I could think of)

 

And now you decide to post - more than a month after the topic was dropped.

Say, you didn't happen to read the stickies when you joined, did ya? You know, the part about necroposting?

 

Yeah, I know. Which is why I didn't put it in oversized letters or said something unpleasant about his mother.

Though in my defense, his post didn't say anything that hadn't already been stated. It's past my self-imposed bedtime by about five hours, so that could explain me jumping the gun.

Don't ever go to college. It makes you do crazy things, like staying up all hours of the night studying for a test you know you're going to fail anyways.

Back on topic: Thank you JKR, for creating a wonderful sandbox for us to play in.

 

I think of it like this: Yes, J.K. had a HUGE inspirational brain-fart, and managed to come up with Harry Potter. However, The thing we must remember is that she had the skill and intelligence to sharpen it into the book it is. Do you really think that the book, with all its nuances and little nooks came about in a second? No. That took real skill and writing and planning to do.

I don't know about you guys, but I get an idea and sometimes it's gone before I manage to even think up the character's name. It really is like catching lightning in a bottle, because once an idea like that hits you, you gotta seize it fast. That whole concept of getting something good and turning into something epic crosses over into the books too. Harry gets something that can only help him if he seizes the opportunity and has the presence of mind to use it.

J.K. took something potentially great and made it happen, and it's amazing when it happens because potential and putting that potential into being are two very different things. Think for a second here, yes, Harry gets a lot of lucky strokes, but without the will and intelligence to use them, they mean nothing. The sword, the time-turner, Priori Incantatem. They all made it possible to win, but Harry was always the one who took those possibilities and made them work for him. If he had just run away with the sword he'd have died, if he'd just kept waiting for his dad, he would have died, if he had let Voldie win in P.I., he would have died all the same. Just like if J.K. had let that pass as a stupid idea on a train on any random day, a generation would be left cold and uninspired to read and write because there'd be no Harry Potter.

So, whoever calls J.K. Rowling a hack: You Lose, Good Day Sir.

 

While I agree J.K. Rowling is certainly no hack we're all forgetting that she was nearly never published. HP and the Philosopher's Stone was turned down by numerous publishing companies (think of the regret that caused!) who obviously spotted the flaws we are discussing now. If a publishers 10 year daughter hadn't read the first three chapters and demanded to hear the end of the story we may never have been subjected to J.K.Rowlings wonderful world of magic. Ah the genius of youth.

If It wasn't for the young HP fangirl would Harry Potter ever have made the big leagues at all?

 

She was no Fangirl. I'm assuming she didn't go "SQEEEEEEEEEE Harry and Hagrid would be so cute together!!!111!!!eleven!". Points for her in my book.