So, I am about to start reading Grave Peril and I was wondering how Harry compares to other wizards?

How some of the most powerful wizards compares to high sidhe and feary Queens?

How feary Queens compares to Outsiders, vampire kings, angels, fallen angels and other beings.

What makes somebody powerful in Dresdenverse. Is it how much magical knowledge they had? Is raw power matter?

I'm really interested in what you think.

 

The books do go over this every once in a while. In terms of sheer power, Dresden is up among the top wizards in the world. Now, this means less than one might think in the beginning of the series because he's not all that practised using said power, which means he gets a lot less done than one might think. A wizard tends to grow more powerful (whether in terms of raw power or just simple skillful application I don't know) as they age.

The relationship between power and how powerful you are is reasonably close to physical strength. It sure as hell helps to be strong, but application is also very important.

So Dresden might be top 30 if you consider wizards that aren't established yet in canon or that haven't been mentioned? Maybe? By the time of book 15 or so he'll probably be in the top 20 or 15. All the members of the senior council will beat the absolute snot out of him about as easily as Dumbledore beat up high tier aurors. Likewise, Morgan and many of the senior wardens would also beat him. Some because of practise, some because of power, most due to both.

Okay. So in terms of power tiers is goes.

God/Jehova - Possibly Cthulhu or whatever the top tier Lovecraftian horrors are. Azathoph?

Archangels and Faerie Mothers

Dragons such as Ferrovax.

Fae Queens (Mab, Titania), Drakul, regular angels.

Black Court Elders (though we know fuck-all about them beyond that they were insanely powerful)

Fae Ladies - members of the senior council, a lot of others minor gods from religions that aren't really practised any more. Lots and lots of others.

High level wardens, lots of other wizards and others.

Dresden as of Grave Peril.

Everyone else.

Dresden is going to move his way up this ladder a bit. I'm sure you'll find a more extensive list somewhere else and that I've missed lots, but off the top of my head, this is pretty much it.

 

@Zeelthor, Cthulu is really weak compared to Azathot and Yogsthot. They are the top thots.

 

Ah. Well, then he's further down the list.

 

One of the things you need to remember as well is that a lot of the high powered creatures come with high powered weaknesses. Faeries are harmed by cold iron (it's effectively nuclear waste to them), Red Court burn in direct sunlight, Black Court have all the weaknesses Bram Stoker wrote into his book.

Humans are also unique in that we have free will when everything else doesn't. It gives us the outside chance at doing things that a lot of creatures would be outright unable to do. The Knights of the Cross, for example, are able to take on foes that would be outright out of anything else's league because the Swords of the Cross act to level the playing field. Michael is well known in the supernatural world for killing Siriothrax for a reason; the Dragons are peers of Mab and are effectively like nuclear armed one-man nation states in their own right.

I recommend reading the next book then coming back to this thread. It heavily involves the Faerie Queens and you'll get an in depth look at how they fit into the world. That should answer some of your questions.

As for Outsiders, well, they break the rules.

 

Well I know some stuff about courts and Nevernever from shezza and nuhuh's fics. But still, I'm excited about what is to come.

 

You'll enjoy it. Summer Knight through to Turn Coat is consistently pretty awesome and it's where Butcher really hits his stride in his writing style.
--- Post automerged ---
Oh, one more important thing to note about power levels. Power in the Nevernever doesn't necessarily transfer over to the mortal world that well. Like, the Black Court were wiped out shortly after Dracula was published, but in their heyday their Elders were a power to rival Mab. Being metaphysically powerful doesn't make you immune to stakes and garlic, for example.

 

That's a nice way to make sure that no character is invincible. No matter how op you are, you still have weakness.

 

To quote an ancient post of mine from a Shezza thread

 

There's a lot of leeway within the Faerie Queen rank there.

The Erlking is a peer of Mab, but he's not her equal (otherwise he'd be the one ruling Winter).

The Archive is stated in story to be equal to one of the Faerie Ladies while Harry thinks she's more powerful than that, but she's likely not in the same league as the Queens. For reference, if Mab had been the one at the Aquarium the Denarians would have been dead in under a minute.

 

Of course, when it comes to discussing power levels in Dresden it's worth remembering that Butcher puts a lot of emphasis on the importance of tactics, clever ideas, and sneaky tricks. Harry's won against several opponents who were well outside his nominal weight class because he came up with something they didn't see coming.

 

And that is the reason I really like this series. Brains, balls, and judicious use of power can see you through many a sticky situation.

 

Like others have said it really depends on the circumstances who is interacting with who.

The higher level beings—Mab, Titania, Angels, and others you meet further down the road—are extremely powerful. Far more powerful than Dresden is or ever will be in a battle of straight up strength. But, they are generally extremely limited in how, when, and where they can use that power. Moreover, how Dresden confronts these beings is, generally speaking, nothing like he confronts the lower level people because he can’t go power against power with them.

Also like others have said, in Grave Peril you are seeing, effectively, teenager Dresden. By the time of Changes, Colds Days, and Skin Game; Dresden has become significantly more developed and wiser as a wizard for a host of reasons. Butcher makes it clear that skill, cleverness, and creativity matter every bit or more than raw power. Every book Dresden develops because every book Dresden gains new experience in wielding his magic in a variety of ways and circumstances.

 

@Ched, @Ragon means that by wizarding standard. Even Harry thought of himself as a teenager, who has lot to learn.

 

This:

Which is why I said effectively.