Is it wrong that there’s a p

I’ll read it tomorrow. I had read it pretty quickly yesterday, but I’ll have time to actually read the posts with more thought tomorrow.

 

Everybody p's sometimes, Tammy.

 

Good evening everyone!
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Today we need to try to vote out Sloth's partner, because taking tonight's KP down from 2 to 1 is crucial - it gives us an extra lynch even in the worst case. @Mendel, I don't really get your proposal, the other team's incentives obviously aren't the same as town so I don't see why they would "cooperate" with us in trying to specifically eliminate Sloth's partner instead of just killing normally.

Bussing d1 is just so subpar in this setup that I have trouble believing someone would end on their partner especially when there were other wagons in contention EOD, and besides I think almost the whole wagon is spewed not his partner by Sloth's posting anyway. Possibly except for fluff there since he was a counterwagon - I didn't notice Sloth interacting much at all with him and Sloth's read on him in that big tierlist was just a big hedge. I also just did not grok tom's case on Empoof, so I'm gonna reread that discussion after some other stuff.

Sloth's interactions with and about Jari were very partnery to me and I'm a little confused why people aren't suspecting him more.

I also came out kind of thinking Ter could be a partner and kind of not. I think there's definitely a disconnect between what Sloth was representing as his read on Ter and both his reasons / how he was behaving sort of parallel to Ter - before I go into this more, @Jarizok could you elaborate on why you thought Ter was likely a partner of Sloth?

I actually thought Cerber's interactions with Sloth were pretty partnery in that Cerber just did not give a read on Sloth and just textually shrugged his shoulders, but I think Sloth's read on Cerber / the way he talked about Cerber was... not spewy as such, but a decent amount less likely to come from a partner, in that Cerber was basically just hard towncleared by Sloth and I don't know if he would be the type to go the hard powerwolfing route. I need to check something wrt this.

Cobalt is a mystery to me. I see the point about him asking about the case on fluffy when Sloth was also a wagon, but I don't think that shoves the needle into the red zone or anything, since there were other wagons and fluff was top wagon by a decent margin when he made that post. Not floored by his analysis post today but I know he's asked for patience. Cobalt, I hope this week goes better for you, and mafia is 100% not more important than life - check in when you can?
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@Tammy and anyone else who wanted these: Sloth's most recent mafia games on this site are this game (partners: Snowvon/Vaimes, Cobalt) and this game (partners: Waco, Pinky, Xan, Ter).

Something I vaguely remember from this first one plays into why I'm skeptical on Cerber being a partner via Sloth's interactions.

 

If I were Sloth's partner, I would have voted Jari and put his wagon above Sloth's.

 

Okay, so this actually doesn't show what I was hoping it might but maybe it's still useful.

Sloth townreading a new town in Concussion Mafia, vs.

Sloth townreading Cerber here (no Devil's Advocate section unlike his other listed townreads)


I thought he townread someone who turned out to be new town in that other game in a way that reminded me of how he approached Cerber here, but he actually was way more confident about Jason. I still think the tonal markers and his approach to that slot kind of match up, though?

Obviously the other caveat here is that the game I'm quoting from was 3 years ago. But if Sloth has spent all this time away from the game, I think it stands to reason that he might go for tactics in his comfort zone / that he remembers using, if that makes any sense. Can I get a sanity check on this?
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Like particularly the "if he had a scummate coaching him, he wouldn't be so [reason for townreading]." Maybe that's a silly thing to look at but I don't think he mentioned it for anyone else here.

I guess the construction of the read is different in that his Cerber read is more based in TWTBAW, and his Jason read is more for being casual and naive.
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Really? I thought the wagon formations prevented that.
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Man I wish this site had auto votecounts.
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Hmm. fluff, if you're around, do you have any thoughts on who is most likely to be partners with Sloth, and could you elaborate on why exactly you disliked Jari's reads?
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Also, before I get into other stuff - I guess I'm the other "guest" to this site besides Mendel, and I've been having a great time in this game. Thanks for making it chill and enjoyable, everyone.

Spoiler

Nothing much, what's p with you

 

Votal
cobalt (2): tom, mendel

 

Spoiler

Essentially, I think Sloth felt overly concerned with how Jari was being perceived. He asked people for thoughts on Jari when he didn't for anyone else. The first and third posts I quote here are a pretty roundabout way of defending Jari.

From Jari's side of things, his posts mentioning Sloth are #185 where he asks fluff for a read on Sloth among others and #252 where he asks Sloth what his thoughts are on the people reading him, which gave Sloth the opportunity to post about how he's always seen as scummy. Even though Sloth was a top wagon when Jari was in the thread he didn't seem to be that interested in solving him, and his last contentful post for the day was undermining Sloth's top detractor Mendel.

So in the end it's not like... one super scummy associative post or anything, but a bunch of small things make me think they could be partners.

Does this make sense?
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I don't really get mendel's case that Jarizok is town because of Sloth's partner's target. I think it rests on too many assumptions/speculations to really have legs - like I don't really think Sloth's partner would have followed Sloth's reads instead of their own, and idk even if Sloth was being truthful about his reads in the thread.
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I do have trouble grasping why Sloth would make the read he did on Jari, basically saying he was null but then tying him to Ter, if Sloth/Jari are a team. If Ter died and actually was mafia like Sloth seemed to think, Sloth would kind of lock himself into going for Jari.

I guess I just don't know how Sloth could have been so confident from post 1 about Ter so maybe some of the read was exaggerated? Sloth also never seized onto the growing Jari train when it seemed like Ter wasn't going through.
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idk maybe I am being lazy just disregarding everyone on the Sloth wagon as a partner for today. But it just doesn't make any sense to me that anyone would bus on day 1.
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I mean, I know it's foolhardy to stop considering bussing. Outside of votes I think and I think we all agree that Mendel, Tammy, and Tom are just not partners because of various like... (mendel leading push, Tammy and Sloth's early interaction and annoyance on both sides, Tom calling out Sloth's placement of his Empoof read). I didn't register Sloth responding to Empoof or fluff to a great degree.
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So why I thought TerRaine could be a Sloth partner should probably wait until Jari answers my question, but there's definitely a lot compelling in the other direction. Like, why Sloth would ever open by hard bussing TerRaine and like repeatedly calling for her head... He doesn't seem like someone who'd do that especially to someone he knows and would probably be more comfortable around, based on a cursory look at his older games.

From what they said of their history together I think they'd be comfortable enough sassing each other regardless of alignment so I don't reeeally see that as a not partners thing.
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Reading the tom/Empoof discussion... I can see what tom is saying. The Empoof read - first the turnaround in the same post and then the placement in nulls - from Sloth is just weird and does kind of feel like "not wanting to scumread him".

But I think I come down with Empoof. I don't think Sloth would be scared of shading his partner or putting his partner in his scum pile, he already had two ostensibly bigger targets in Ter and Jari. I think Empoof's 369, closing down his paths to vote Jari in an up-in-the-air EOD, is decently towny or maybe something that'd occur less to him if he were partners with Sloth - it'd be one thing if he posted that and didn't move his vote but he did shift to Sloth. I know he's competent as mafia and self-meta isn't that trustworthy but it makes sense to me.

I don't think these posts clear him of being Sloth's partner? Maybe I need to look at the Sloth side of the Sloth/Empoof interactions more. But I just think the overall like... why would he bus at all, why would he in particular need to bus when his thread position was already fairly towny I think, that means the Empoof/Sloth world isn't really one I'm interested in pursuing today.

Good luck with the job hunt btw.
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Ter and Sloth's EOD posts to each other are giving me pause as well - it feels so on-the-nose to post "this is what you said last time you were scum!" to your actual partner. I guess Sloth's side could be antispew and Ter's post about not wanting to get dragged down by Sloth's vote ~if~ Sloth flipped mafia could be an attempt at saving face? That seems somewhat less plausible to me.

This also goes for an earlier post where Sloth asked fluff what he thought of "his bussing," jokingly referring to his vote on Ter... Feels almost too correct in a Sloth/Ter world.

Maybe he's bold/playful enough to do that. I don't really associate the reasonable wallpost style of wolfing with that sort of cheek?
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I thought I'd be able to do more tonight but I'm falling asleep, hopefully I was understandable. Gonna reread toDay's posts tomorrow night.

Vote Jarizok
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On that note, placing votes good! I was surprised there had been only two.

 

There was lots of back and forth while I was away that I'm still sitting on the sidelines of, but here's some stuff that made me think:

Sloth not putting a self-preservation vote on his fluffiness would make it appear they're allied, right?
So if fluff is partners with Sloth, Sloth has no choice but to vote there.
He can still do it if fluff is not his partner, obviously, but maybe he'd done it earlier especially since he seemed to want to build up fluffiness as his other scum read.
So, I think what we saw there is what we would see if they were partners, but it's not really a strong clue.

That's a fairly convincing thought, actually.

I'm very sorry, and I apologize, but I have no idea what you mean. Could you please restate the whole paragraph?

Well, optimal outcome for us is to lynch a team 2 mafia, and then they shoot each other in the night, but it's also the least likely. So, basically, my question of who to hunt today was to find out where everyone stands, and to commit to an explicit thread consensus on this. And we did.

One of the easy things to do as wolf is to copy yourself. Like, you want to townread a scum pal, you copy how you townread a town player. The "coaching" thing particularly pinged me, because obviously if you are that aware of it, you can coach your newbie partner to ask some uncoached questions; and the whole reasoning is illogical: if a player plays townie, they're obvtown, and if they play scummy, they "haven't been coached", so you always townread a new player with that logic. So that felt off, like him pointing a finger at Cerber and going, "look how uncoached that guy is", it felt like a set-up to me, and brought on my tunnelvision(tm). Particularly the no-lnch suggestion regularly comes up from new-ish players on D1, and it always gets scumread-but-not-really, so to point at that and take it as proof that Cerber wasn't coached when that would be the most risk-less way to make him appear uncoached if you set out to show how uncoached your scum partner is.... ok, that sentence needs to end somehow.

The main thing this precendent shows that it doesn't have to be a set-up with Sloth, since he's done it to an actual town target before, and therefore my tunnelvision(tm) was a even more tinfoily than I already thought it was. Hmmm.

 

Sorry about that. Phone posting, still am, but I’ll try to make more sense.

so let’s say your sloth scum with Empoof and people are erroneously town reading your partner for no real perceivable reason, do you laugh and take the wrong read to the bank since it means you have a better chance to win?

Or do you get pissy and throw a kind of fit about it? The read reads like sloth got pussy that Empoof was resting on his laurels and being town read, didn’t want to admit his earlier read was a town read, and then pissy that he was putting in all this work and getting scum read but damn it’s so unfair that Empoof isn’t doing anything and people find him town.

I guess some people really can’t help themselves but call their partner scum or correct wrong townies, and you know I just don’t know his whole treatment of Empoof is weird and we’ll probably not know why until after game. I’d be pretty pissed if I were Empoof and we were partners though!
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I don’t know if that made it any clearer, but I’ll be back after work.
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Keldeo - did you find a sloth scum game? Can you tell me the name of it if you did?
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if You haven’t already, terraine based on knowing sloth as well as you do, having seen him as mafia, how would you expect him to act with his partners and who is more likely?

if I missed it, I’ll read it tonight when I get home from work, but if you haven’t talked about that yet could you?

 

Empoof seems to be rising as a feasible wagon. The only reason to lynch Cobalt at this juncture is to avoid replacing him.

I'm interested to see what Jarizok and Fluff wind up posting throughout the rest of Day 2, however.
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Just remembered that Sloth made the same joke about Cobalt and that stuck out to me in a weird way, which might actually be a gut feeling that Sloth was essentially saying "hey scummate, get up here, yo"
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yknow what

VOTE COBALT

 

i also dont know why sloth would distance himself from townreading you if he isnt your buddy.
This is exactly the crux of things. He obviously didnt want to townread you, or even let anyone think he had. And he was reaching to not scumread you either, with the paragraphs about you having a vast tonal gap from the rest of the nulls but shoehorned up there anyway.
This is why you stand out. Sorry if its frustrating for you that thats not based on anything youve said. But also... not really because i know youre better scum than <guy who hasnt played in years and got lynched d1>

Ill be real with you though. Im still tryna lynch cobalt first rn-- because hes next most likely sloth buddy (hes also more likely team 2 wolf than you, but thats only tangentially relevant) and id love to have that part removed from reading you. Because id NAI rather you in the game than not, and AI youre more useful than cobalt regardless (if town or if scum wrt catching *other* team)...
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Its entirely possible im tunneled a bit on terraine being town. But what im seeing from her just all tracks. Like, look at her thoughts on me and her (some stated, some implied) opinions on how votes should be used. That shit is obviously not a good way to read me as i have very different opinions on how votes should be used, but it makes so much sense with her progressions, and when she is bullish on me in particular.

Also i dig this cerber/sloth thought, but what makes you think cerber is more confident today?

 

Yes, that helped, thank you. I can see what you mean, and I think that's good reasoning.
If Empoof is NOT Sloth's partner, why did Sloth keep fighting on this issue?

I have lynched players with this reasoning before, but I don't think it's a good reason for us right now, and not the only reason to lynch Cobalt.

I had hoped to catch up on the game this afternoon, and got caught up on my sleep instead. It's been a busy week for me so far.
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What I don't know is how a whole weekend off affects a player's ability to regroup and get at the game with renewed vigor. In a 36/12 hour game, it'd be much more likely to see a change in player behaviour when a mafia gets their partner straight up lynched on D1, because 12 hours is not a lot of time to recover from that.

 

I think i just figured out why i keep sliding keldeo down my readslists despite not being able to remember his opinions...
Hes really expositional. Like, the beginning of this post feels like the intro to a powerpoint presentation.

Feel like id think he was townier if his posts were smaller/less prepared and that feels like a stylistic choice.
Shrug
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Dont mind his jari push though.
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I may not be the one to ask, this is still a "short phase" game to me.
My first scum game was *does math* 864/96

Atp ive played 100 turbos and dozens of half year long mtgs games and everything between and ive never found a reliable tell for how people come into new phases

 

tom, what would you say your current readlist is?

 

@his fluffiness , do you feel that any of the people who voted you yesterday did not have a proper progression on you?

 

I feel that of all the votes on my wagon, Jar's was by far the worst.

By far.
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Like, I didnt agree with Ter's vote, but she had a progression that was internally consistent. Jarzik doesn't even have that.

 

Im town.
Cerber i believe is doing his own thing exactly like new town should.
Terraine has consistent mindset and i am still into my original read of her self meta/hello posts being nonmanipulative/unapologetic/whatever. Also fits on fairly few teams.

Tom
Cerber
Terraine

Tammy and fluff just sorta... feel like themselves. Idk i feel like i know them both pretty well even if i havent actually been very good at reading either... but i have a baseline. Tammy is extra all over the place, and fluff is extra willing to put himself out there.
And both those feel good in multiball?

Mendel... i had some issues but its definitely approach-based and accounting for that... hes involved and solvey and genuine.

Tom
Cerber
Terraine
Fluff
Tammy
Mendel

Poof towny in a vacuum/overall, though certainly nothing he cant fake. Extreme pro<sloths team> agenda entering eod that softened considerably over the course, see our back and forth.
Sloth did treat him like a buddy though.

Keldeo. Expositional, hello fellow kids, idk. Its partly playstyle prolly. Next most likely sloth busser after poof. Even more likely team 2 (just by poe/feeling wolfy/not looking like he super cared who got lynched yesterday really

And then... i dont have any positives for jari or cobalt. Cobalt feels... worse. Possibly because i know jari can post as a wolf and cobalt can only if the situation is right. Which might be unfair if hes just busy but. Well, he made his bed he gets to get lynched in it.

Tom
Cerber
Terraine
Fluff
Tammy
Mendel
Poof
Keldeo
Jari
Cobalt

 

Do we have a current vote count?

Sorry I threw my back out so I cant guarantee my best today.

 

Cobalt (3): tom, mendel, cerber
Jari (1): keldeo

Not voting: terr, fluff, tammy, poof, jari, cobalt
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poof is like team1/team2
Keldeo team1/team2

Or something

 

Moderator Note:

Cobalt has requested replacement. Seeking. May extend day 24 hours, pending.