Yeah, Vaimes's case is trash. Lock him up.

 

Like okay, your problem with me is that I was scumhunting in general and not specifically for Sloth's partner. And part of that is my fault, I did put off reading Sloth's posts because I thought it would take too much time and I wouldn't be able to share my thoughts in a timely manner. But he really didn't have that many, and since I skipped all the Tammy/Mendel/tom responses, it was even easier.

I got caught up thinking I caught a mindset slip by Ter, and then once Jarizok flipped I was sure his buddy was trying to kill me. Mendel fits the bill. I've been chasing those scumreads because I'm actually confident in them. Why push a read I'm not confident in, even to save myself? All that happens is I could potentially cause a mislunch, and then I die anyways.

This is my first time having to worry about hunting scum from specific teams. I've played two multiballs total, one as town that died N1, and one as scum at endgame. So this is essentially a new experience for me, that I've been treating as a normal mafia game because that's what was comfortable for me.

But I am town, I have poured waaay too much energy into trying to get everyone to see this slot is town, and I have to wonder if there was ever anything I could do to prove it besides just lunching Sloth's partner, because nobody is going to believe be before the partner flips.

 

Kinda skimmed but food filled so probably not answering much tonight.

Today was a good day....feeling very zen

 

I'm sorry, the town response to that post was "Actually, my read progression on Sloth was x and I voted him there because y. Your interpretation is bad because z."
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This isn't even an interpretaion. These are facts. There is no opinion or commentary on this chain of events.

My conclusion is that fluff has minimal significant interactions with Sloth because they're partners, but the case itself (above) isn't trash, because it's just listing a chain of events.

 

I mean your case is Fluff, who could have voted Jarizok easily and put the Jari wagon above the Sloth wagon voted his partner anyway, thereby ensuring the dayend wagon would be Fluff vs Sloth instead of Fluff vs Jarizok. And then Fluff is partners with Sloth.

See where the logic falls apart?

 

Not really. Mendel was hammering at Sloth, and I'd reckon you wanted whatever towncred you could get. You don't have enough content to clear yourself.

This was the votal before you voted, with Mendel rehashing his case just a few posts beforehand:

His Fluffiness (3): Jarizok, CerberAsta, TerRaine
Jarizok (2): Cobalt, Keldeo
Sloth (2): Mendel, Tom
TerRaine (2): Sloth, His Fluffiness
Keldeo (1): Empoof

Not Voting (1): Tammy

Even with that said, there was no guarantee Sloth would be the one to die. One of you could point back at this vote later if you or Sloth ever flipped. If you voted Jarizok here and he didn't end up lunched, that would look bad.

This is all speculation, of course.
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It seems like no matter who it ends up being, Sloth's partner has good enough reasons to not be suspected right now. Literally the only reason I'm under fire for it is because Cobalt wasn't here, and that's an easier explanation for people to accept than that his partner distanced pretty well.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Sloth encouraged his buddy to distance tbh. Sloth's play in his last scumgame got him lunched Day 2.
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So I guess, to make everything fair and honest, I'm asking you why your read on Sloth changed, and what specifically changed it.
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I think if the wagons were fluff/Sloth, people would write that off as you both being unaligned. People tend to doubt that two leading wagons are both scum in general, though it's funny when it actually is two scum.
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(Oh also if I were scum, fluff is another shot I would've taken because I had a Watcher read on him.)
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I can't say for sure but I think people would be skeeved out by the Jarizok wagon because lurkerbalt, so it's not likely that that wagon would've gone through.

Too lazy to actually check if this is what happened tho.
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@Fluffiness

In addition to elaborating on your Sloth read, you never answered the question: if you're not Sloth's partner, and I'm not Sloth's partner, then who is it? Are you just gonna go back to CA?

 

Well, my townread on sloth was tentative. After I posted it, he proceeded to do the same thing I scumread TerRaine for (calling my desire to stop helping scum in thread bad). Additionally, I townread him for pushing his opinions, but then his posts kept getting longer and his opinions kept seeming less honest.
Also, I voted him because I thought he was likelier scum than Jari, and my favorite 2 wagons at the time (Ter and Cerber) were clearly not going to happen.

 

Wait, Keldeo already read/looked at Concussion Mafia?? lmao
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Which opinions?

What made him more likely scum than Jarizok?
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That's all I really feel like doing today. 'Night all.

 

He had multiple bad points to pad out his posts, slipped in among more reasonable ones.
Like when he said he wasn't just "looking busy" in response to tammy calling him out because "looking busy" but not scumhunting would not be good for him.
Or his posts where he claimed "I like Empoof as town" before claiming he wasnt actually townreading Empoof.
He also could have pushed the Jarizok wagon ahead (since the terraine wagon was going nowhere) if he had actually meant what he said when he called Ter and Jari his top 2 scum.
Like, his vote wasn't actually matching his reads.

 

I'm not really certain of things but I guess I'll drop a readslist. I'm curious about others' reads at this juncture. I'll do my best to explain.

Town: Tammy, Empoof, Mendel
Null: Fluff, Keldeo, TerRaine
Scum: Vaimes

Look, Vaimes is churning out a lot of content but there's a pretty obvious reason for it in the replace. His perspective is pretty clear. Some of his stuff came across abrasive, but it could have been just adjustment to a weird situation and getting pushback. (I'll agree that getting mad at him for posting a lot is subpar. I'll also agree that some of his posting has been weird.) Day1Cobalt voting Jarizok could have been the loose distancing in case one of them got lynched later.

Mendel was a pretty solid driving force on the Sloth wagon and, hey, bringing in the wolfpelt was solid. It was easy enough to focus on Vaimes, since V was kinda the new Sloth in dropping in and taking over the narrative a little with sheer presence. I'm hoping Mendel is town, but the laser focus on V can read a little suspicious if it keeps going as-is. Some decent reads might clear this up. Town but on the low end right now.

Empoof has been on my town list early, but has seemed a little dodgy on some fronts. "Bro you wolfing" is still stuck in my head and he voted Jarizok with little defense so I'm still comfortable with him in the likely-town slot.

Fluff has shut down questions and been weird about shit without properly explaining. They're starting to townread me but I can't say I follow any of their early attempts to scumread me but I'm also not good at this game so! That leads to voting. I doubt fluff is Sloth's partner per the discussion that has been going on, but I'm not sure. Fluff has been keeping cards close to chest especially, whereas Tammy, Mendel, and others have been a little more open.

Keldeo and TerRaine are in a weird spot for me, but I need more content and more time as my child demands storytime. Night

 

Please, just ask me what you'd like to know, and I'll try to answer. I'd much rather talk to you.

 

I will. I scanned a little of your qualifier game when I had bits and pieces of time earlier. Before I got in too far I wanted to know if I should be getting a baseline of expectations from that game.

But I know that the nature of the qualifiers sometimes propel people to put on their best face as it were, so it might not be the best to judge from.

Sorry I'm really hoping to have time to talk tomorrow, but right now I'm scrambling to be ready for work tomorrow.

 

Vaimes's Fluff is Watcher theory fails to account for the fact that if I were a Watcher who had seen Jarizok, I would have died last night.

 

Hmm I'm kinda buying this right now.

But left wondering how this would be your first experience if you did get to play that game, even if it was just day one. Since you probably would've also spectated the follow up for that game. Or had to have made reads on Day 1.
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Yeah read over Vaimes case, disagree. I don't even have to look back when you put the votecount there and everything. I can see a world where fluff busses there, like I get the tangible idea of what you're talking about but I don't think that's how it went down.

I'm gonna be doing mostly reading right now but if anyone is here and wants to talk I'm around. I think this is mostly going to be a "me" time and I don't know if I'll be sharing that much.
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@TerRaine could you walk me through what you liked from Jarizok's early posting?
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I found some reasoning but if you could expand on it again I'd appreciate it.

 

Votal

Vaimes (3): Mendel, TerRaine, Fluffiness
Fluffiness (1): Vaimes

Not Voting (4): Empoof, Tammy, CerberAsta, Keldeo

 

I don't think TerRaine is with Jarizok, but it's not a crazy strong feeling. I think Jarizok has more respect for himself than to walk into day 2 and just immediately try to bus TerRaine or hope for a distance play or whatever. Would be thinking like 2 layers deep and be trying to get convinced that TerRaine isn't with Sloth when

Otherwise I feel like I learned literally nothing tonight which is just super. Keldeo omega town, rereading his posts from day 1 with the flips we have is actually laughable how townie he was. I have a better reason for fluff not being bros with jarizok with how Jarizok pushed onto him when he did. "Fluff being kinda lowkey excitedly smug just fits his scum game." But this was a read I already had.

TFT Set 2 comes out in like 24 hours. Hype.

I'm trying to gauge if I just confbiased my reads or not but I think I just have like... a more robust but same evaluation. Dunno maybe I'll have more heelturn exciting moments tomorrow.

So my not with lists again and I guess minorly updated:

Tammy/Keldeo are with neither and just town for a lot of reasons are pretty clean body of work.

Not with Sloth:
Mendel - Mendel's first vote and push onto Sloth not partnery as a whole
TerRaine - "that's bait" post and pointed behavior about TerRaine feels not partnery.

Which leaves:
Fluffiness - On the Sloth wagon, most of that discussion is above.
CerberAsta - Cerber's general posting style and ambition day 2 didn't feel like a new player who had just lost a partner while being "in the PoE" however much he really was in it.
Cobalt/Vaimes - Nothing outstanding, mildly bothered with Sloth's seemingly ambivalent view of them in their reads list with mild shade.

Not with Jarizok (all of these are light):
Fluff - stated above
CerberAsta - Cerber early vote on Jarizok not partnery
TerRaine - stated above

Which leaves:
Vaimes - Literally an empty space here in my notes, but I just have this feeling from his posting that Vaimes was alone if he was a wolf yesterday. Based on some of the way he was solving. Hard to describe and is an overall body of work thing.
Mendel - Possible partner with Jari for dismissive posts and labelling Jari as LHF, though Jari's "X meant this" post is fairly abrasive

Emphasis on the reads being light with Jarizok while the reads with Sloth feel really good. The logic with that is just a lot more tenable then dealing with the glob of trying to expect how people would treat Jarizok while he's been very hard PoE'd. Vaimes the problem is that basically everyone feels way less likely to be partners with Sloth, and how you approached the game when you were playing yesterday (and honestly some of today with the logic you're presenting) doesn't feel like you were properly acknowledging the way multiball functions and opting to plug into the side of you that you're capable of projecting town which is solving for a single team. There were a number of things that you did that ended up feeling really confusing and almost classicly scummy, such as OMGUSing people on your wagon and almost actively trying to push people that you yourself had cleared as Sloth's partner. The mindset of "it's almost better to have a potential cross kill" isn't a correct one to have. I personally really struggle to read people's Appeal To Emotion like you showed during End of Day 2 and in general I end up more blank faced or "sturdy" when it comes up. This sounds like a good thing - scum don't win me over that way very often - but it's a really useful townhunting tool that I struggle to utilize effectively. Your discussion about the night kill doesn't really do anything for me, I'm pretty sure tom was also trying hard to lynch you all of yesterday? I wasn't trying to engage in that process at all since I think this specific night kill is kinda fruitless. Was honestly surprised that so many people were surprised by it. But I guess I think about that type of stuff a lot.

So yeah. I still want to spend more time on this game this week so I'd appreciate it if we didn't hammer. But also we kinda need to score back to back scum lynches or I need to get night killed cause I'm definitely not going to be free at all the week of the 18th.
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All that said, I've thought about worlds where you're town. It's very possible. This isn't a shruglynch or a thoughtless act like the narrative you presented yesterday had. I'm pretty welcome to the idea. If we can find a better pair for Sloth or something feels more off or maybe we miscleared someone then I don't think you getting lynched today is always a forgone conclusion. But it's the most likely one.

 

I guess it depends on which expectations you are pulling from that game, exactly.
If you want to see me tunneling a certain scum read, look to Color Wheel (or Thaumiel).
To me, it feels like every game is different, yet I am myself in every game.
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You think Jarizok wasn't a pushover lynch? I'd have thought yesterday proved that point.

I didn't feel that Jarizok was being "abrasive", he's certainly not using abrasive language like Vaimes has been doing. His post came about from him tagging one of my posts with "I dislike this", and me engaging him over that. That was me talking to Keldeo about his read on me changing because I hadn't been as present in the thread. I understood where Jarizok's take of that came from, which wasn't him being abrasive, but just him scumreading me, and I saw why he did, so we could simply have a conversation about it.

Given that I had described Jarizok earlier as "self-conscious" and "not making eye contact", maybe this post should have pinged me more, much like Cobalt's read of me. Jarizok shows confidence here, and there is no apparent source for it. (Tammy, was that what made this post stand out to you?)

 

The dismissive posts and labelling Jari as LHF were from day 1 stuff and nothing to do with Day 2, for what it's worth.

The post doesn't use aggressive language but tonally is sharp/accusatory.

 

Think I’m just not gonna post at all today. There isn’t much more for me to say, and thread probably needs a break from me anyways.

I’ll come back tomorrow night. Tag if you need something.
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Wait sorry I saw this and I’m ???

I don’t get your point. I just said if I were scum, I’d shoot you over tom by like. Miles.

 

Day 2 proved Jarizok to be a pushover lynch, validating my assessment of him as LHF on D1.

Yes, that is why I see it as "confident". That may be a matter of semantics, but "tonally" Jarizok's post does not feel personal and does not have Appeal to Emotion (AtE) in it. I can respond to it and still feel good about Jarizok as a person.
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So, if you were scum, you would've shot me, and Fluffy, but not Tom?

Why? I don't follow that logic. Why is you seeing Jarizok a threat to yourself, if you're the watcher?