Does anyone know how long Phenixes live for before they have a burning day?

 

I once read a fic where fawkes is hit by killing curse. While he's reborn Harry puts a spell on the ashes which stops the time. After that he uses the ashes as ingredients for a potion.

 

That story would be awesome. I always found that the way some canon Slytherins act was very inconsistent with the supposed values of their house- Malfoy notably. Then again, we didn't know anything about the canon Slytherins other then Malfoy and co. until the HBP- maybe that's the Slytherin cunning at work.

There's nothing about it in the HP Lexicon. I suppose, though, that it would be once a month. Maybe someone who has the charity JKR book can check it?

 

I've wanted to read a story like this for a long time as well. Regarding Fawkes, you could always take the ashes and the reborn turkey inside it and put it in some sort of container so it either can't grow or die of oxygen starvation. Even if it rebirthed itself it would still keep dying. Another plot twist you don't see often is Harry, after defeating Voldie at the end of first year, never takes the Philospher's Stone for himself. He either gives it to Dumbledore or it gets destroyed in the process. Certainly if Harry were a bit smarter or ambitious (in this fic he would be both) I can't see why he wouldn't keep something so valuable. No doubt after the end of second year, he would harvest the basilisk and keep the chamber for himself, etc.

Just some thoughts. Hopefully someone will pick this up.

 

Perhaps you can kill a Phoenix if you keep killing him directly after his rebirth, with the phoenix getting weaker and weaker with each rebirth until it dies a true death.

Also garion's idea with Harry keeping the Philospher's Stone for himself has been done in several fics and I have yet to find one that does it well. Dumbledore would not accept that such a powerful object would just be gone without proof, even if he does not suspect harry so could he belive that voldemort took the stone and memory charmed harry.

Instead, after voldemort is defeated and harry has the stone could harry give the stone to Dumbledore, "proving" at a young age that he can be counted on to do the right thing. That way can he ensure Dumbledore trusts him and in second year could he then take the chamber for himself after he defeats tom riddles "ghost" and kills Ginny

Ron could be crushed along with the teacher when the cave collaps taking care of that probem. Harry would then be the only one other then Voldemort who knows the location of the Chamber.

Harry could pretend that Ron had gone to look for the chamber with Lockhart while he had been going to find the teachers for help... Further earning the trust of dumbledore.

 

why kill the phoenix? That will be too hard. Why not just kill dumbledore.

 

Because the challenge is "Dark Harry as Dumbledore's golden boy", so killing Dumbledore prematurely would destroy the point of the story.

 

So you want Harry to follow in Dumbledore's footsteps. I see. But Dumbledore is a light wizard so unless you are going to make this a dark dumbledore, in which case Fawkes won't have anything to do with dumbledore....

 

xcel, Harry will not be following in Dumbledore's footsteps. What Harry will be doing is pretending to be following in Dumbledore's footsteps. He acts the goody-goody, pretending he is the epitome of a light wizard, as he gathers allies and followers behind the scenes. As the years go on, Dumbledore begins to trust Harry unconditionaly, despite what anyone else says. The problem is, Fawkes is a Pheonix and they can supposedly sense if you are a good or bad wizard. Seeing as Harry is a truly bad wizard who just put up a facade that says he is the opposite, Fawkes will know and warn Dumbledore. That's why Fawkes MUST DIE!!!!

 

great idea.

But how will Fawkes warn dumbledore? Do they have a mental link?

 

That's something the author has to decide, but in the second book Dumbledore said, "Only a true Gryffindor could call Fawkes down to the CoS," or something like that. I think that alludes to the fact that Fawkes can sense people emotions and thoughts. Also, when Dumbledore was ready to disappear in the fifth book during the scene where the DA is found out, he just holds up his hand and Fawkes immediately knows what he is asking for. That also makes me think that they have a mental connection due to Fawkes being his familiar.

 

There is definitely some sort of connection between Fawkes and Dumbledore or Fawkes would never of known to appear in front of Voldemort's killing curse in the DoM. But does the connection go both ways? If it does than Harry couldn't kill Fawkes himself anyways because Dumbledore would theoretically know exactly who did it and might stop him before he could even go through with it.

But perhaps if Occlumency shields can fool Dumbledore and Riddle than they can fool a Phoenix. If Snape is truly a bad guy as I hope him to be (i.e. my name) than wouldn't Fawkes have been able to feel that and wouldn't he have warned Dumbledore? Maybe the whole good guy/bad guy phoenix detection is a mental thing and having Occlumency shields blocks it from working. Meh. I guess it is really up to whoever writes this to decide.

Fun Fact for the Day: Me and Kolskit are identical twins and I was writing up a beginning for this exact same plot when Kolskit posted this challenge on this forum. Yes twins actually do have a connection. Kolskit will be humming a song that neither of us had heard in years and I will have been just thinking about that same song. Oddness. (Whole Dumbledore/Fawkes mental connection thing reminded me of this.)

 

I believe that was I Won't Forgive You by CodeWarrior. Harry cast a stasis charm on a flower pot, hit Fawkes with the Killing Curse and banished the ashes into it. In that scenario, theoretically, Fawkes could be revived at any time by removing the spell or dumping the ashes.

 

You can always take up Amerison's Challenge, which was to have Albus AND Harry going basically Rogue Cops.

 

Phoenix

Hmm, everyones talking about trying to kill Fawkes, but what about Harry using a spell or something to corrupt Fawkes instead?

Also, Fawkes and Dumbledore don't seem to have a magical connection, so much as Fawkes simply seems able to sense emotional need/distress of Dumbledore and those loyal to Dumbeldore.

In regards to the fact the Fawkes seems to be able to anticipate what Dumbledore wants/needs in some instances...well, it's not impossible for Fawkes and Dumbledore to have been together for hell, fifty/sixty years or more no? And over that time Fawkes and Dumbledore would have gotten very use to each other's mannerism's ect and quite familar. It stands to chance that they'd work together well. - Hell, Fawkes could have been there with Dumbledore when he fought Grindlewuld or his followers, or both.

One other point, you've mentioned Fawkes seeming connection with Dumbledore, and his ability to Rebirth, but what about his ability of Instantaneous-Travel. That would most definately cause a problem.

All three together...ouch. Though if you went with the above explanation of Fawkes sensing emotions ect, the Mind Arts would suffice.

After all, wasn't Severus Snape supposed to be loyal, and yet he slaughtered Dumbledore in HBP...so clearly Fawkes isn't insurmountable.

Anyway, Laters

 

I'd say stick the baby phoenix in a glass jar with one hole in it so it doesn't get enough oxygen to breath but the fire can burn , or make it unbrakeable and put a spell on it that conjures pure oxygen. No one can breath pure oxygen and the phoenix will die but fire burns good in it... The phoenix would make an outstanding lattern.

 

Remember that after DoM Dumbledore returned Fawkes in his pocket. It was totally helpless, ugly and so vulnerable after a single killing curse. So I guess that after one AK it won't die but it will be powerless, normal bird for sometime till it regains its magical powers(maybe it'll be exhausted by using all its power to keep living). So after one curse it is not trouble to kill a little bird which can't sing or fire-travel.

But honestly I think it is unnecessary to kill it. For one thing Dumbledore will be on alert if something like that happens. Other than that, it is my understanding that a phoenix song put fear into mind of impure and dark. It hasn't been said that phoenixes can detect one. If Harry has sufficient control to keep from moaning everytime the turkey croaks its not much of a trouble. Better yet, why can't Harry enslave it by some Binding/Slavery spell? It'll be good to have a phoenix as servant and it'll prove to everyone that Harry is indeed good(they will believe Fawkes chose Harry as new master!!!!!!) light wizard.......

 

You could always go for the whole "Harry conveniently finds some magical item that blocks the powers of a phoenix from effecting him" stuff. Sure it would be cheesy to do it, but hey, if all else fails you can always do that.

Though, Harry is supposed to be some magical prodigy in this right? Maybe he can create a spell or the item himself. Maybe Harry will be the first person to find the uses for Phoenix blood, one of which makes a dark wizard immune to the powers of a phoenix (down side is that means the tears won't heal you either)

 

After doing some poking around I can find no basis for the "Fawkes can detect a good or bad person" myth in canon. This is a purely fanon idea. The only thing that comes close is the mention that Phoenix song will be uplifting to the good hearted and frightening to the dark hearted.

So, as long as Harry doesn't go asking Fawkes to sing he's fine.

 

Kender, didn't Dumbledore say that 'only a true Gryffindor could have called Fawkes down into the CoS' or something like that? This seems to allude to the fact that Fawkes can tell emotions or attributes of someone's character. If Harry is a complete hoax -like I want him to be in this challenge- I thought Fawkes would be able to tell.