Gun> Spell, wand, magic.

I can shoot faster than you can do an incantation. I win.

 

....I don't even know why I'm answering this. We've already stated that in a fair 1-1 fight, a wizard would win, plain and simple. Wizards can apperate, remember? Kind of makes it hard to shoot them. Muggles can run around in circles as they are pelted with spells from all directions by one foe. Makes a difference, doesn't it?

 

A small note on the whole magical creatures argument;

What about a baisilik?

Surely a parlesmouth would simply have to command it to sit in from of hordes of muggles and instant death to all within range of vision.

As for all the other types of animals...has it been proven in cannon that the imperius would not affect the minds of creatures?

Or a compulsion charm, sure that is fanon, but surely something of the sort exists.

People here have basically come up with numerous ways to kill our entire civilization based on the corriculum and other magics that a 6th year at Hogwarts encounters...plus there must be more advanced forms of magic than what has been seen by Harry Potter at school.

Wizards would own..simple as that.

 

I really don't want to get involved in this because some of the arguments on both sides are stupid as hell.

But my one contribution is to rebuke Kolskit in your statement about the 1-1 it wasn't decided any armed 1-1 that wizards would win it was that the best of the best in both worlds the wizard would win every time.

 

Kind of hard to be silent then if they apparate. Makes a very loud crack remember? Then all they have to do is shoot in directions, and you are dead.

You are thinking about the wrong situations. For example, Pettigrew. The wizard isn't going to have time and do an explosion spell towards a gas station with 12 clueless muggles staring. These muggles are going to have machine guns pointed at him, and he isn't going to shoot a spell fast enough to avoid dying. And he won't be able to apparate fast enough. You have to concentrate remember. If he apparates to fast, like you are suggesting, he will splinch.

Your whole argument about apparition is fail because of the sheer fact that they need to concentrate, or their body parts are spread around.

EDIT: thisperson, your whole theory of being able to use a basilisk is wrong, as any muggle can use an airplane and bomb the fuck out of a stupid ass snake.

 

What does sound have to do with anything?

It's entirely plausible that a wizard can apperate out of the way of bullets without having to spend five seconds concentrating. Voldemort did it in the duel with Dumbledore at the DoM. Either way, wizards aren't about to go around walking in line towards the enemy like some old Civil War battle. They pop in, kill before people are prepared, and then gtfo.

Your 'bullets are quicker then spells' theory is undoubtedly true, yet my earlier point makes that mostly moot. Also, is every muggle in the world going to be equiped with weapons like the wizards? You can't go around passing out pistols without mass anarchy quickly rising up. If wizards spread enough terror through the outskirts and smaller villages, leaving the bigger areas to creatures like dementors, then their is little to nothing that muggles could do.

Your 'fly in and drop a bomb' theory is quite out the window seeing as how they'd be dropping a bomb on themselves. When you drop bombs, Rostam, you don't drop them on anyone but your enemies. Lesson learned, I hope, because getting bombed by your own side to kill three people doesn't seem like the funnest way to go.

 

Not talking about dropping a bomb on wizards, but a gigantic basilisk staring at muggles in the middle of the street. I think in canon the basilisk was at least 60 feet in length, so when it's body is leaning up, it's head should be 20 or so feet above the ground. And a well placed bomb would kill it without killing any citizens.

And, most wizards aren't equal to Voldemort or Dumbledore so they do have to spend at least a little longer concentrating and make an incredibly loud crack. That is where the sound problem comes in, and if the muggles are trained at least reasonably well, they should be able to turn in time and fire off a few quick shots.

 

If Dumbledore can conjure an armchair, what is to prevent folks from conjureing vast amounts of gas. Let that settle into the air, then shriek incendio and apperate the fuck out. You can get you 200,000 muggles real quick.

Also, consider that the wizarding goal isn't to kill all muggles, just to drive them into absolut submission.

 

I might be drawing upon something fanon, but isn't there a mention in Canon that has something against conjuring gas?

 

...so you're telling me that you are going to drop a missle or bomb into an area you know is going to be crowded with muggles -the whole poing of the basilisk being there to kill- and guide it to hit the five to ten foot across head or a moving reptile with people 20 feet below it. I'm telling you that what you are saying is literally impossible to accomplish.

You do understand that the crack is when they are disapperating, not when they land? You can't track them through the sound of them disappearing because it resounded from right where they just were, not where they appear.

This isn't a one on one fight! You aren't apperating around in the middle of some glorious battlefield like some fanon story. These are dirtier, sneakier tactics that the muggles wouldn't have time to defend themselves against. Minister Fudge gets the floo hooked up and connects himself directly to the Prime Minister's office! Take out Fudge and replace him with assassin-X and we have one very AK'd PM.

 

What makes it so impossible? Magic should be impossible, but if that ever happened, I think we can make a bomb hit a snake.

Also, read the books before you try and talk about apparating. The crack is when they disappear, and appear.

From OOTP

Page 68 in the U.S edition.

Also, I know this isn't a one on one fight. That's what makes it impossible for wizards, most of whom are terribly trained, and suck dick at magic, to take on an army. An army who will all have guns, and all of them are concentrated on you.

 

Please never say that first part again. It was just a tad bit petty as you plainly said, 'Nothing's Impossible if you set your mind to it!' Come on! If we compare science and technology to MAGIC their is no comparison! That argument was so utterly full of fail I want to cry.

Yes, it seems I've messed up quite a few of my own stories with that apperating/disapperating thing. That still doesn't change the fact that magical people have the exceeding advantage in any fight with everything they can do.

For a big army like the one you are talking about, I have a very simple solution: send in the dementors! What exactly beats that? Super photon ray with anti-dementor particles?

(I'm going to bed and I'm tired so I won't be able to answer back. Someone please trash some more of his arguments -and get respectively trashed back as I have- for me. I'd place that first line of yours in my sig for lulz,but that JLG girl has a place even above that.)

 

If you had an army of wizards jogging across a field to meat an army of muggles, the muggles have a good chance of winning.

When the fuck is that going to happen?

The wonderful thing for the wizarding world is that it can wage war without ever becoming a target. All you need is one muggleborn with enough creativity to instruct people one which targets to attack.

They never need to be in a situation were they are physically at risk.

 

Hmm, that line does seem kind of gay. But I needed to type something, so there you go. As for dementors, that seems to be the best advantage wizards have. Muggles can't even see dementors, so I do not know what to do there. Some form of light or something.

deathinapinkboa: There are so many muggles compared to wizards, that in order to destroy the entire threat, magic will have to made known eventually. Definitely not on purpose, but eventually, wizards like Draco Malfoy and Lucius are going to fuck up. And that's when highly trained armies will eventually be able to root out wizards.

I'm leaving now, will respond to this topic tomorrow.

 

Just wanted to point out that according to Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them:

Also:

According to canon, time travel doesn't really change anything. When Harry and Hermione went back in time, none of their actions actually contradicted anything they've seen or heard 3 hours prior.

 

There wasn't a noticeable change because they were trying to avoid creating a paradox. According to canon, wizards have the ability to go back in time. If someone succeeded in destroying them, I doubt they'd give a damn about paradoxes.

 

Why? If they could settle on a peace deal and go back to the status quo, sure, but not in a war of total annihilation.

If that would be so easy, why didn't Voldemort do it when he was in his prime? There must be a hidden variable JKR didn't tell us about yet.

Yea, who cares if the Universe explodes.

 

Well you are basing your whole counter argument on the fact that 'JKR will say something and that will make muggles able to survive'

I thought we were discussing what has been shown in cannon?

If so, then what has been shown points out that muggles would lose, cannon has not given muggles any particular talent and I think that this discussion has been quite generous in allowing the muggles to access all of their weapons and technology that is currently available.

Wizards still have alchemy and a load of other obscure references that cannon has made to other forms of magic.

Well if total anhilation of their race was already inevitable...I'm sure it would be the whole if it is not meant for me, then neither is it for you, type thing.

 

DLR: On the point of your trigger finger being faster than an incantation. Yes, it will be faster than a SPOKEN incantation, but not a thought one. Can you honestly say your finger moves faster than the speed of thought?

And how do you know how effective a bomb or missile would be against basilisk skin? Or against a giant, or a troll, or a graphorn. All these beasts exist in canon, and are all tough as fuck. Send a missile at a basilisks head, which is moving, and even if you somehow manage to hit, theres a good chance it will glance off and explode off to the side AMONGST THE MUGGLES.

And as to the arguement that there are simply too many muggles for the wizards to win. That falls down in that if wizards totally destroy communications, roads, satelites (I don't know how possible that would be, but with judicious use of canon spells I can see it being possible), food, water. They can do all these without being put into any great physical danger from the muggles, again using CANON spells. This would destroy muggle society. They would be unable to co-ordinate an effective fight back.

Certainly purebloods might not be best able to take out precision targets, so use them to attack army bases or sow the seeds of terror amongst the population. Use muggleborns and half bloods to attack the more precise targets, such as roads or storage facilities.

Ruin country economies by destroying the Bank of England/Federal Reserve Storage Places/Fort Knox etc.

 

Then why hasn't that been done already. You can't say it is because the wizarding world is ran by good people, because it isn't. People like Umbridge and Malfoy would love to have 20,000 slaves each, not to mention Voldemort. This is why there must be a hidden variable that is only hinted at in canon.