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Was the ending too happy? Was there not enough death?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I'm not talking about the epilogue here; I'm speaking of the ending in general.

    Anyway, I think JKR really pulled her punches when it came to killing off characters in DH.

    I know a lot of characters died, but it was nowhere near what it could have been.

    Not one of the major characters in the story (or at least, none of the major characters on the good-guys side) died.

    Harry is still alive.
    Hermione is still alive.
    Ron is still alive.

    There's your 3 main characters: not one of them died, which really surprised me. I was expecting either Harry, or both Ron and Hermione to be pushing up daisies by the end of the book. In addition:

    Neville is still alive.
    Ginny is still alive.
    Luna is still alive.

    In fact, the only people from the DA who died were Colin and Fred.

    She only really killed off side characters in the book.

    Remus was probably the biggest character to die, but even he in actuality had very few lines. Tonks we hardly knew. Snape was probably the biggest death of the book, but everyone was expecting him to die, so it didn't make too much of an impact, though I think the bitterness left in the mouth at the ignobility of his death was potent.

    Really, the biggest death of the series - and pretty much the most shocking moment of the series - was Albus Dumbledore. Having your biggest punch in a book that was not the finale left DH feeling a bit unrealistic and hollow in terms of death.

    Personally, I think JKR should have had the bravery to finish Harry off in The Forest Again. Now that would have been an ending.
     
  2. Snarf

    Snarf Squanchin' Party Bro! ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I just can't see JKR finishing off Harry, no matter what the circumstances. Harry's almost death made me gag as they did the whole 'Harry wakes up in some happy place next to those he loves and has the choice to either fight or go on to the next life.' How often do you see that in fanfiction? Like every other bloody story.

    I don't think the ending was that happy, though I thought Voldemort's death was about as crappy as possible. The epilogue made me cringe, but I'd read it before so I was prepared. I thought she played out the book well, it was my favorite of all besides the possibilities of GoF, but I can't say it was an amazing end. Not too happy, yet not that sad.
     
  3. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

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    I think the problem most people have with the Harry/Dumbledore meeting in this book is because of fanfiction. I dunno, when I read the books, I forget that I read fanfiction and try to enjoy the book even though some of the ideas had been overused in fanfiction.

    I think Fred was a major enough character death, and add that in with Hedwig. Hedwig was the biggest shock for me, and the worst, I couldn't believe that she was dead. Just because it's war doesn't mean everyone has to die. :\
     
  4. Master Slytherin

    Master Slytherin Headmaster

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    Outside the DoM six, I actually thought that there was actually a lot of character death, considering that this is canon we're talking about.

    Remus was a major character in book 3 and his and Tonks' death surprised me considering the whole Ted Lupin thing. Maybe Rowling was trying to make some sort of comparison with the Potters? Fred and Hedwig were major characters, more major than Luna in any case. I'd say Hewig is a more important character than Ginny, considering she's been there from the very beginning of the series. Moody's death surprised me, though that was more to do with it being barely 100 pages in. Dobby's a pretty major character and so is Snape - the latter more prominent in the books than Neville, Luna or Ginny.

    I think she had the quantity of deaths, more than I expected. But I honestly thought one of the 'golden trio' would die.
     
  5. vivilp182

    vivilp182 Guest

    I also thought it could have been more significant deaths. The only one was Hedwig, and maybe Dobby and Fred. I'd include Snape if his death wasn't already expected.
     
  6. Jamven

    Jamven Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    It is a children's book, so I was actually surprised with the amount of people that did bite the dust. I was thinking 3 tops...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2007
  7. Spanks

    Spanks Chief Warlock

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    I don't know, but I was hoping that Harry goes to fight Voldemort and gets his head cut off by a Severing curse within the first 15 seconds of the fight. I am sure that would have made a lot of the younger people reading the book wail in despair (fangirls), but I would have found it kinda funny.

    I had a feeling Ron and Hermione weren't going to die, but I was hoping for some disabling injuries along the way. Maybe a leg blown off for Ron, or a mangled eye for Hermione.

    If you hadn't guessed, I like a good twisted dark surprise :D
     
  8. HomicidalPsychoJungleCat

    HomicidalPsychoJungleCat Fifth Year

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    I was guessing, maybe a little hoping, that in the end, Harry would die and play the part of the martyr. He would go to heaven or wherever and meet his parents and be at peace. Outside of that, I didn't really expect any of the Golden Trio to die.

    I was shocked though, at Dobby's and Hedwig's death. The former because I didn't think Rowling would have the guts to kill off a character of his importance (perhaps more so in the earlier books), and the latter because it was just so quick. I think is was only the first few chapters in where Hedwig died.

    Remus and Tonks' deaths were unexpected, but not really shocking or moved me, simply because she spent so little time describing it. Harry comes in after a battle, sees the two dead, runs off into Dumbledore's office. If she had spent a couple more lines on it (like she did on everything else in the book), then I'm sure their deaths would have bee much more monumental.
     
  9. Lorelei of the Sea

    Lorelei of the Sea Unspeakable

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    I though the ending was much better then what I expected it to be (not the epilogue which is Not Canon, as far as I'm concerned). I thought that Harry's selflessness was better then the Powah of Luv, at least. And the amount of character death in the books was much more then what I expected. All in all, I expected a lot less darkness and a lot less death, considering the fact that HP is a children's book that also attracted an adult fanbase. I wish it could have been more, but that's why we have fanfiction.
     
  10. 007_rock

    007_rock DA Member

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    One can't say there hasn't been enough deaths, if you consider it all.

    1. Muggle studies professor.
    2. Scrimgeour
    3. Moody
    4. Hedwig
    5. Dobby
    6. Fred
    7. Colin
    8. Remus
    9. Tonks
    10. Snape
    11. Bella*
    12. Voldemort*

    For a children's book, this much death is quite enough. But that doesn't mean the adult readers should have to like it. I personally hoped to see atleast the half of Weasleys dying truly horrible deaths and some professors too.

    But JKR has to keep it pink and cuddly for kids.
     
  11. Dark Lord Rostam

    Dark Lord Rostam Button La Famiglia Midknight

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    She wanted to kill Mr. Weasley, but she said she just couldn't do it. I wish she did, would have added a lot more realism.
     
  12. Midknight

    Midknight Middy is SPAI! DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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  13. Midknight

    Midknight Middy is SPAI! DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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  14. redawgts

    redawgts First Year

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    Sigh. Even in a comic, Harry brings a knife to a gun fight. Will that boy never learn.

    As for the number of deaths in DH, I think there were plenty. It is, after all, still a children's book.
     
  15. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    More than enough character death.
    Still... would have been better if one of the trio had died.
     
  16. Midknight

    Midknight Middy is SPAI! DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    ROFL too true
     
  17. QuaziJoe

    QuaziJoe Dolphin Boy

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    Honestly I think there were enough deaths... She didn't go over board but she did keep the number realisticly high.

    To add to 007's list:

    Ted Tonks
    Goyle

    All those people Voldemort killed to get the elder wand and in general.
    ie. grindewald, gregorvitch, that Goblin... so forth.

    As to the whole Belatrix bit...

    Did it actually say she died? She was kind of ambiguously defeated by Mrs. Weasley. What exact spell Did Molly use? Was she killed or simply rendered incapable of helping Voldemort.

    But in general... ignoring the belatrix bit... there are more than enough Deaths in this book.

    And most of them, I can accept or even endorse as good ideas plot wise.

    Preferably, I would have liked it if Hermione and Ron got together and then Hermione dies... would make for great reading, and be nice to make Ron the Widowy type for once.

    I would have also preffered Arthur to have died originally as his death would have been powerful and Harry as well for the martyr factor. But that clearly didn't happen so theres no point cryign about it.

    I didn't mention Ginny simply because I knew going into reading the book, she was safe. Rowling wouldn't kill her after the shipping wars with the Harmonians... cause too much of a stir amongst the fans.
     
  18. CrashLTD

    CrashLTD Fifth Year

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    Deaths that were realistic

    Hedwig - Her death was enough to instill in the reader's mind the severity of the situation in the story, that the Wizarding World was at war and anybody was not exempt from becoming a victim. I didn't even see this one coming. After her death, though, I was pretty much on my toes looking out for the next victim.

    Moody - He was the strongest warrior the Order of the Phoenix had left. It is a no-brainer when Voldemort went after him first.

    Scrimgeour - Voldemort wanted to take control of the Ministry. What better way for JKR to do this by using Scrimgeour's death as a symbol for the fall of the Ministry.

    Dobby - The little elf was very precious to Harry. His death served its part by strengthening Harry's resolve to permanently put an end to Voldemort.

    Snape - Everybody expected it. It was only a question at whose hands he would fall. If he really turned traitor then at Harry's. If he's Dumbledore's man then at Voldemort's.

    Voldemort - He had it coming the very moment he was born in JKR's head..

    Deaths that weren't necessary (canon fodder to fill up JKR's quota for body count)

    Fred - WTF?! I believe this was a failed attempt to pull off another Hedwig (see above). Seriously. Why have George's ear cut off when she planned to kill of the other twin? The moment George lost an ear I sighed in relief believing the twins were now safe from death's hands. The rationale for this belief was the fact that it was always stressed that it was hard to differentiate Fred from George. If George lost an ear then the problem of distinguishing one from the other (this was a recurring theme throughout the series) was resolved. Why have him die then? To fuel anger in Molly to pull off the stunt of giving Bellatrix a run for her money? If so then offing Percy would have done a better job what with his recent redemption.

    Colin - Another WTF moment in the book. Colin wasn't even anything major so his death would be pretty cheap. Canon Fodder.

    Remus - What's the point in presenting an ordeal for him concerning a child that could possibly be a werewolf if he won't live to see that ordeal? Poor judgement by JKR IMO.

    Tonks - Her being in the final battle was questionable in itself. She's Remus' wife so she wouldn't want to see her husband die. I agree. But she's also a mother so that doesn't justify her leaving her child with someone else. She ought to have been torn between choosing her husband or choosing her child. My mother even told me she had a hard time choosing between me and my dad. Leaving me in my grandmother's care wasn't even an option. Another canon fodder.
     
  19. Iztiak

    Iztiak Prisoner DLP Supporter

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    I thought there were enough deaths.
    I agree, one of the "golden trio" would have been more realistic, but it's a kids book, JK wouldn't ruin it for the kiddies.
    And about George's ear, maybe the point was to fool you into thinking that they were safe. That way she could shock people when one of them died.

    P.S. The comic was hilarious.
     
  20. Glernaj

    Glernaj Stab Executive DLP Supporter

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    Eh, I would have liked some more deaths, if for no other reason, than because I love a good dark story. Of all the deaths though, Moody's shocked me the most. I'd have thought he'd have taken a whole fuckload of people down with him when he finally kicked it.
     
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