Well, if thats the case, then muggles are fucked against the creatures. Well, Taure, you've convinced me, muggles are fucked. Unless muggles can capture a couple magical creatures for scientists to run tests on. Muggles will not be able to win.

 

As happy as I am to convince you, I would say don't make a judgment too soon. This thread has far from run its course.

 

Even if it was completey overrun by the enemy, even if you believed that all your people were dead, even if destroying it would deal a massive blow to the enemy, mentally and physically? Come on.

Sure there is. Hogsmeade, Ottery St Cathpole, Godric's Hollow, Hogwarts. They exist, they're just designed to look inconspicuous. How long do you think it would take the UK to check their records and say, "yep, that's a Magick Stronghold. Bomb the shit out of it".

Infrared goggles.

Not disappear. Apparate. Personally I doubt most wizards would be able to disillusion themselves, too.

Chimeras, Griffins and Dragons will still die if you pump enough lead into them.

Do we know if Dementors can be harmed? Have we ever seen a Patronus do anything other than chase them away? What is it, the light or the happy thought?

If it's the former, then just equip your guys with a couple of flares. If it's the latter, well... just provide your soldiers with a half-dozen anti-depression pills.

Wizards still need to eat. They still get sick, they still need clothes, potions supplies... and most importantly, they still get scared. Where's the will to fight if your entire world has been destroyed?

Hermione got over 300% on her Muggle Studies test in PoA. Arthur Weasley, who should be an expert on the Muggle world, knows jack shit. "What's a fellytone, Harry?"

:lol: Even magic has limits. Physical laws must apply to it in some way.

Why would muggles need spells to protect against radiation?

If you ask me, a 10 MT nuclear bomb is going to break even the strongest magical shield. The amount of energy released would overpower them easily.

I just love the way we talk about using poison gas and nukes so casually.

Sadly, that's what would ultimately happen in any war where one nation was losing.

A picture would probably help, or that's what Rowling would say.

IMO you'd need to have been there before to successfully apparate there - or be able to view it from your apparating point.

Think Barty Crouch Sr. I reckon Muggles would notice their Prime Minister gibbering away about wizards - they'd just commit him.

"Take their weapons"? How do you suppose they do that? Accio?

Muggles win, hands down. Few wizards can even cast a protego properly; how long could you maintain it under the barrage of bullets and shells?

 

Yeah, I am still looking for ways that muggles could win against wizards, all I can think of is if muggle tech went up to the point of orbital bombardment.

 

Complex ethics system? Bahhh! "Dark magic" is defined not by a moral code but by the Ministry of Magic. All of the MoM's smear campaign against HP was centered on an idea that he was "going Dark"...that is to say, rebelling against the established government.

And I don't assume that all wizards are heartless. The fact that wizarding society as a whole doesn't enslave muggles out of the goodness of its heart doesn't mean that there aren't individuals within the community with good hearts.

Discriminating against muggleborns is a taboo in canon? So why is it that by the end of DH most of the muggleborn had been murdered by the benevolent MoM?

 

I wouldn't say that's the way to go. Muggle beating the wizards is simple: a completely comprehensive (i.e. every single wizard is accounted for) pre-emptive surprise strike while the wizards are sleeping, with the assistance of wizarding defectors.

Um...no it isn't.

Um...no it wasn't. It was centered around the idea that Harry's brains were addled by the Killing curse at the age of 1.

Yes. Remember CoS? The scene where Malfoy calls Hermione a mudblood? The reaction was analogous to calling a black person a nigger.

That would be because Voldemort took over. See:

 

Would my answer have to comply with JKR's ridiculous assertion that magic ignores the laws of physics? Because if the answer is "yes" this whole thread is pointless, and the answer is "Wizards rule, because JKR says so."

How could muggles launch a pre-emptive strike against every single wizard without knowing where they are? Even if there are any number of "wizarding defectors" this seems like a tall task.

But the opposite is also true. Upthread arguments that wizards could simply cast imperious spells on muggle leaders assumes that the wizards know where all of these folks are.

And yes, the President of the United States lives in the White House, and PM in 10 Downing Street, but governments have all sorts of contingency plans in place in case of a successful attack against its leaders.

 

Ignoring canon is one way to go about the discussion, but not one I'd recommend in a topic discussing canon in a forum called "Canon Harry Potter Books and Movies".

 

Yeah, but like someone said that would be very hard to put into motion due to wards and stuff, bombing might get a couple thousand, but do we know if muggles know which building is important, which building houses the major opposition and there are probably a lot of wizards who don't stay home all the time. The example you gave would be a major victory for muggles, but the cost of organising such an attack would be pretty expensive and you can't really continue attacks of such magnitude. You could only attack the major players but there might be people that will grow to be just as important.

 

Pull my hair out time with your circular reasoning.

The wizarding world is highly moral, and doesn't subjugate the muggle world because they're good people. Except when it allows Dark Wizards to run rampant and kill all the muggleborns.

Like playing violin to a muskox.

 

Sniffer dogs being compared to dementors? Really Taure, I don't recall real dogs being able to suck out souls or have I switched realities with out noticing.
Wizards supportive of muggles, hmm, examples... besides the weasly.
Wizards are isolationist and haven't seen any major advancements on a regular basis.

 

Depends on your definition of "canon."

There's a big problem when JKR says one thing, but her written world shows the opposite.

 

If canon is "Rowling said magic doesn't obey any Physical Laws", "Rowling said the Love Room in the DoM contains a fountain of love potion", and "Rowling said Harry named his second son Albus Severus", then quite frankly I don't want to discuss canon.

Using Rowling's logic, Muggles will win, because I want them to.

 

No. You're misrepresenting what I'm saying deliberately to defeat it. Either that or you're really stupid.

It is not:

It is:

The wizarding population is averagely moral, meaning that they're not genocidal maniacs and therefore doesn't subjugate the Muggle world. Those wizards who are immoral and want to take over are stopped by the majority of moral wizards.

The situation in DH is unique because one of those minority immoral wizards was a skilled enough wizard to subjugate the wizarding population, and therefore the usual situation - the moral wizards imposing their morals on the immoral wizards - was reversed.

Analogous means equivalent, not the same. Dementors are to the wizarding world as sniffer dogs are to Muggles: brute beasts that the wizards use and master through the promise of food.

Practically all. Canon infers that this is the norm.

And this is clearly wrong. They're isolationist concerning the Muggles, but there are strong international magical relations. In addition, there are many major advancements in magic happening all the time. New brooms - which means new and better flight charms, new spells and potions - enough to warrant weekly magazines about the latest breakthroughs in all of the magical fields, previously impossible things made possible (Voldemort's unaided flight) and many other things.

...except you're not JKR, so don't make the rules, whereas she does.

 

Do we want Rowling to make the rules, look what she did man.
Not all the population is the Weasly's other wise Dumbledore would be God.
You take out the big Three, or just Dumbledore and Voldie, Wizards loose because they were led around by the nose so long.

 

Want has nothing to do with it. We are faced with the rules that she has made, whether we like it or not. And I quite like most of her rules. It creates a unique fantasy setting that's a refreshing break to the usual cliched crap.

I really don't follow that argument.

I would disagree here. There are many highly competent wizards who are still alive even after Dumbledore and Voldemort are gone. Wizards of the sort of McGonagall, Snape, Slughorn, most aurors...they're still highly competent.

 

I know I was just saying on the subject of the rules, it is the reason why fanfiction exists.
Highly competent Aurors, tonks trips over her own feet, so besides Shaklebolt and Moody, who is around that is not a ministry flunky that can fight the Death Eaters.

 

If we do this, we should probably take the weapons of mass destruction from the muggles or else we are just making the magical side weaker to try and make the muggles win, but if they were taken out in battle then don't get rid of the nuke.

Another note on the wizards vs muggles topic, if we take the rules from canon, then wouldn't the wizards be fighting be fighting one another? If we do that then muggles would have a better chance of winning.

 

We know that you have to have passed NEWTs in all the main practical subjects to become an Auror, and on top of that you have to have natural aptitude for the kind of situations that Aurors would be in.

That shows that all Aurors are highly skilled.

The way I see it, the discussion is somewhat removed from practical concerns like this. We're discussing which is the superior in its very essence: technology or magic. As far as I'm concerned we're not saying that the conflict is taking place in any specific place in time or anything like that. It's a debate about the fundamental principles.

 

True about the infighting.
As for the Nukes, can't take them off, do you know how many Nukes exist, versus one Dumbldedore and one Voldemort, no not equal.
Besides one nuke to Hogwarts you kill Dumbledore and his staff, Thermobaric bomb to Riddle house, Voldie dies, hit the ministry with a bunker buster, and nerve gas Diagon alley.