A while ago, I recently got to shaping a Dark!Harry plot bunny. Now, when I shape a plot bunny, I used general themes and ask myself a lot of "What do I want from this?" regarding various items that may or may not appear due to the sequence of events that would play out through cause and effect.

So, I sat there thinking, how can I make a unique Dark!Harry fic? My first thought was a Harry who wanted respect and power and slowly started progressing towards madness or apathy. After spending some time on that line of thought, I realized I had essentially created something similar in appearance to an Alucard!Harry. It was an amusing and good plot bunny, but it wasn't what I was initially after.

So I went back and thought, ok, maybe I should try to see how I could set Harry up as a future dark lord, but without most of the pitfalls and clichés that seem rampant. As I was setting up the foundations for this fic, I quickly realized that the Dursley's would be anathema to the Harry I wanted to create, and I realized that Dumbledore would not allow Harry to be rid of the Dursley's without good reason.

I needed a way to get Harry away from both groups at an early enough age to have an impact on his personality as its developing yet still late enough that people aren't going to automatically assume that Harry is a runaway or an abandoned child. I needed a plot device to do this and set up an Idol for Harry to look up to (shaping his personality and outlook into something that can or would become something darker).

When I realized that I couldn't come up with anything believable on its own, I thought to myself, could I introduce a third party here to generate the needed plot device? As I didn't want to create a true crossover, I almost scrapped the idea right then and there until my computers media player began playing some songs from Pirates of the Caribbean.

I then had an epiphany. I could use known media (Movies and TV) to give Harry his much need idol and give him the inspiration to change his persona and life.

As I wanted to keep it as realistic as possible, I limited myself to characters that only existed up to the year 1991. Now, there weren't many characters I could use that would mainstream and popular enough so that Harry would have a realistic chance of encountering them over in the media of the UK, yet also holding that persona of pure unadulterated badassness that would immediately grab hold of Harry's attention and keep it.

I needed someone along the lines of Darth Vader from the Star Wars movies. (Remember, this is set before the travesty of the prequel trilogy came out.)

And what do you know, I found a character who is a Dark Lord, who holds an air of power and control, and who Harry could initially idolize after watching him on the big screen. I had just created a HP crossover without making it a crossover whatsoever.

Now that I had this idea, I needed to see if anyone else had created something similar. Sure, there were SW/HP crossovers, but never had I seen a pure HP story that had Harry inspired by Star Wars instead of raised in it or some such. I looked far and wide, and after much searching, I had found one other thing like it. Fosfor's 'Red Codex'.

Fosfor and I had the same line of thought on how to open such a fic, and as they were so similar, I grimaced and admitted that my idea was not as original as I had thought it was. After reading through the two chapters he had created (which his plot bunny and my own diverged IMMENSELY after the first chapter (Fosfor's ends up becoming a crossover with Darkstalkers while mine stays purely HP)), and after looking at the fact that he had not updated his own story in over six months, I PM'ed him, explained my situation, and politely asked if I could have his permission to carry out my own plot bunny due to the sheer similarities of how both start and due to the fact that he came up with the idea first. I sent him a small segment of where I wanted to take my own plot bunny, and a copy of some of the stuff I had written for a few friends stories as well as a reassurance that I was a competent writer.

He replied soon after that stating that he was honored that I would ask that, and that I was indeed a very good writer, but that he was still working on his story, and that he would not give his permission as he was still working on it. A sentiment I can understand fully, as I would not give permission for someone else to use my plot bunny without due reason.

Had I went ahead with my idea without asking for permission, I would have had plausible reason to use it (even though they were similar in appearance in regards to their beginnings, they were not the same story (or even based on the same plot bunny)). However, as I was courteous and respectful in acknowledging Fosfor’s fic (as it came first), I ended up honor bound to not carrying out my own story idea as I had asked for his blessing and permission. I fucked myself over, as I should never have asked for his permission to begin with, as the plot bunny I created, I created on my own with my own ideas and my own concepts.

I'm now honor bound to keep my word. Shit.

 

Pwnt?

That sucks, but being kind and curteous is a trademark of DLP.

Not.

You could do it anyway, but if you are truly and honorable person you're right. you're screwed.

GG

 

All depends if you're honor bound not to write it or post it.

If you are honor-bound not to post it, you could have someone else post it for you, under the guise of "screwing you over".

Therefore, you remain true to your word in that YOU didn't post it.

 

If I'm going to do something like honor an agreement, I will honor its spirit as well as its wording unless I have specific reason not to (or the wording is so vague that it's hard to define what I agreed to anyways). In this case, that means not writing it period, unless Fosfor was to be an utter dick about things or I can find a way to change the beginnings enough so that they didn't look as similar as they did. The problem, Fosfor is a pretty decent fellow, and I can't figure out how to change the beginning enough so that I could go ahead with it.

Yeah. Dumb of me.

 

*Ponders*

He is being a dick. You offer us a good, well-written story that isn't a crappy x-over, he offers us a story that is a crappy x-over and hasn't been updated in an age and probably can't compare to your author-ity *Dead-pans*

 

Question: is your heart set on this route of Harry doing dark? There are other routes, after all. Hell, you could leave him with the Dursleys and become dark because of their influence, and he could recognize that, start manipulating them. When you survive physical pain, you realize its only pain and you get stronger. Its not just a cliche. While canon abuse by the Dursleys is more on the side of negligence and mental abuse rather than beatings, Harry does have every reason to grow up with Attachment Disorder. He doesn't have this particular mental illness in canon, but a normal real kid would. Its consequences are nasty and result in acquired Psychopathy, which is worse than it sounds because its a permanent and incurable state. Around half the prisoners of the world have this mental disorder. They can't be cured, only negotiated with or killed. Harry with Attachment Disorder would be creepy and very dangerous, and Albus would be blind to it because Albus was blind to Voldemort's evil. A remorseless killer Harry would make the Malfoy family quite upset when he pushes their little ponce off the train along with his bookends, or stabs them in some corridor. Or poisons his enemies in various ways. He'd be a genius at potions due to personal interest but he wouldn't feel any empathy for other people. Hermione might die because he simply doesn't care. The trouble with this kind of Harry is when you remove too many parts of his character then its not Harry Potter anymore. Its just a slasher fic with violent wish fulfillment and it won't read terribly well. Would be over in a few weeks. Psychopaths get caught. Harry in Azkhaban because Dumbledore screwed up with placing him with the abusive Dursleys is a very short story without much to recommend it. And its probably been done a hundred times, as well.

So, is this meant to be an emo!Harry, a crackfic, or yet another Uber!Harry with dark powers? And how is this worthy of reading? What makes your idea unique enough for you to write and us to read?

 

ROFL.

You're in the clear on this. The only reason you asked for Fosfor's permission was that you believed him to have the prior claim on this idea. The thing is, he doesn't. He has no valid claim to have come up with this fic idea before anyone else. You're placing him in a position of power based on false assumptions. And if he's cock-blocking you, then he's definitely not as nice a guy as you think he is.

The idea of the young protagonist being inspired to change their life by way of a hero or villain on the screen goes back quite some time, I am sure. Specific to fanfiction, I first came across it in the Ranma fandom.

Ranma fanfics had evolved a new cliche of having the protagonist raised by someone other than his father. The likes of Hannibal Lecter, Duke Nukem, and Ranma's estranged mother all played a parental role in one fic or another. Stemming from this came the fics where a young Ranma was instead inspired to grow up differently by fictional heroes and villains on the screen.

One of the more prolific authors who wrote such fics is Carrot Glace. And what do you know, but Carrot moved on to Harry Potter fanfiction. And in A Matter of Force Harry (or his author insert sister) was inspired by Star Wars on the silver screen and raised him according to the principles of the fictional Jedis. The sister styled herself after Vader, and is becoming increasingly concerned that she's taking on more and more of his fictional personality.

The story descends into a morass of crossovers and another inspired Carrot fic peters out once the novelty wears off. But that isn't the point. The fact of the matter is that Fosfor has no claim. And he cock-blocking you from writing your independently created story.

Fuck Fosfor.

Yak.

 

1. Work on the story.
2. Post two or three chapters here, with a link to the other story.
3a. If your story is more win (which it should be;seems like you'd be thorough in planning), then post your superior story.

(OR)

3b. Give the guy two months to update, then post your story. If he PM's (read: Pee Em Esses) you about it, then he was really just cock blocking as Yak said. You'd then be honor-bound to respond with a "Fuck you, eat a dick"-type message.

And we are, if nothing else, honorable.

 

Harry turns into a Dark Lord because he was inspired by watching it on the big screen?

... lulz.

 

Why not? Grindelwald got his start from what basically amounts to a children's fairy tale *shrugs*.

 

In the first place, I thought this idea was kind of ... lame, but original. I mean, for Harry's entire persona to be so deeply affected by a movie that he becomes the next Dark Lord is ludicrous by itself and, from what I've read of Fosfor's fic and know about the similarities to your own, will not be pulled off well in the first place. Originality is nice, but far-fetched originality not so much. Instead of just the movie, he needs to get the books so that he can study up on Revan, the Knight of the Old Republic, and the Mandelorian Wars. That, much more than the original three movies, will make him think and ultimately twist his mind.

 

Modeling Harry on Darth Vader would be a mistake, IMO. He's powerful and "dark", yes, but that's about all the character has going for him. As a character, he has about as much depth as the shallow end at a childrens' swimming pool.

 

Write it. He'll most likely never know, and if he ever does find out, he probably won't say anything.

 

From my perspective, it seems appropriate to write your story and add an A/N saying that ,"In the preparation of this work, I was made aware of <X>, who is also penning a story that begins similarly. This work should neither be confused with being a derivative of his, nor does it draw upon ideas from his story."

Then he can't really complain, as you're giving him credit for his comparable ideas and you're actually advertising his fic for him. As others have pointed out (and I think it's in Potter Laws), there's really very few new ideas in fanfiction.

Ideas are cheap--it's execution that isn't.

 

Just from skimming.

Write the damned thing. You thought of it on your own, found his later. Screw him.

 

While I agree in part, it's important to note that Harry is modeling himself on Darth Vader. A lack of depth to the character really won't matter, because despite the fact that Harry's now running around crushing people's throats with magic, he's still Harry.

Palpatine would probably be a better choice, though. When you take away the crazy, he was pretty epic. Ah, hell, who am I kidding? The crazy made him even more epic. Insane!Sith!Harry for the win!

Narion

 

Write a half-ass prolouge of a character or some minor introduction.

That way the story doesn't start similarly to his it just has similar ideas in chapter 1.

 

Thank you. It's always good to ask people things, as you wil find sometime you may have missed the first time around. Looking at it from this perspective helps me a great deal in going ahead and not feeling like I'm not 'honoring' my word.

I agree. In the end, I wanted a Harry who was far more of a 'Palpatine' than a 'Vader', but I needed to get a foot in the door so to speak, and Vader would work for that initially very well. Remember, this is set before 1991, and has to be done with a character who would be popular enough media wise to have a chance to be seen by Harry.

An child growing up in an emotionally abusive household either turns inwards or outwards. I know about that firsthand, having grown up in an abusive (physical as well as emotional) household as a child. I hated being timid as a child. Of course, I didn't wish to follow in my fathers footsteps in regards to his total lack of tact. I have a temper that outright scares me, and I get even more frightened of how calm I feel right before a fight is about to take place. So from my perspective, I looked for an idol, someone who I looked to and saw strength, and tried to imitate them. In my case, it was Attila the Hun along with Kefka Palazzo. After all, if I couldn't be as strong as I needed to be by being the person I dispised (myself), then how about I be someone else?

It took a while before I realized I wasbeing a dumb kid and could never be those people outright, though I did realize I could adopt aspects and characteristics of them and use them to help change myself for what I thought was the better. So I speak from personal experiance in how such things can and do happen, though I feel that Harry would be taking a very different path mentally and emotionally than I did. Personal experiances can be useful things to draw on in empathizing with and in shaping a character, though I wanted to steer away from a Self-Insert with a ten foot pole.

That's the emotional and psychological aspects of the foundations for this story for the 'why and how'. However, I wanted to stay as true to SW canon as possible for the time-frame. Which means no Darth Raven, no Darth Nilhus, no Mandelorian Wars. However, characters such as Admiral Thrawn, Boba Fett, Palpatine, Jabba the Hutt, and any other character who appeared before 1991 in the movies, the comics, and the EU are fair game. Most people are willing to piss on the timeline and use characters who would not appear until much later on (such as using Darth Raven before the KOTOR games have even had a chance to be made). I will not do that.


As for why I plan on choosing to create a Dark!Harry (beyond the fact that this started out as just an exercise to see what I could do), I wanted a character who would look at all the over-reaching and convoluted plotting and manipulations Dumbledore and Voldemort would be doing, then hire a bunch of mercenaries to just snipe the fuckers or kill all of their followers and whatnot. Very simple, direct, and brilliant action that doesn't require the sheer convolution or inanity that others are more prone to doing. And this doesn't even touch on the fun of thinking up scenarios of how either one of them (Dumbledore and Voldemort) would act and react to such simple and brutal execution of action, as well as the sheer fallout from some of those things.

I don't want to create a character who will win at every turn. I did however want to create a character that is willing to stand by his actions, and will make them regardless of the desires of those 'in power', and is willing to deal with the consequences (good and bad) that arise.

 

Vader is a pathetic loser - all power and no subtlety.
I think Palpatine would be the best role-model for young Harry.

 

If you are going to do a pre-Hogwarts Dark!Harry fic, I think the way to go is kinda of like Child of Mercy by Fayr Warning. Harry being dark and manipulative is a result of his being raised in an abusive (if not physically, then verbally) household. Harry, being unwanted, unloved, and reminded of that fact every other day, turns "inwards". Harry learns to care for himself and look after himself very early in life. He becomes intelligent and manipulative to protect himself against those who would do him harm (Dudley and his gang, Vernon, who will put Harry in solitary confinement without food in the cupboard for the slightest reason). Basically, he becomes like Tom Riddle, only without the klepto tendencies. And unlike Riddle, who enjoys causing harm purely for the lulz, Harry only causes harm to those who deserve it and to protect himself. To Harry, it's a necessity; not something to revel in.

Basically, you should try to make Harry the best of both worlds, in a believable way of course. Make him dark, manipulative, and intelligent without the psychotic and sadistic tendencies of Tom Riddle. I mean, I don't want to read about Harry receiving pleasure from torturing animals, and killing people. I'm not down with that shit. I like the Harry who shows no mercy to his enemies, who is intelligent and cunning, who will manipulate friends, enemies, and teachers to his advantage, but doesn't believe in the pureblood ideals and the inherent superiority of wizards, and realizes that taking life should only be the last option.

Dark! but not evil Harry FTW.