Very true; fantasy fiction has a large number of fairly standard conventions that are almost universal, so getting worked up into a state because other people use the same conventions as you do is kind of pointless. Card has a very good point there; it takes more than basic similarities in overall plot structure to constitute stealing ideas, otherwise 99% of all fiction was plagiarized from someone else. Hell, if you want to go in that direction than every single work of classic high fantasy is a blatant rip-off of the King Arthur legends.

On a semi-related note, one of the things I've really enjoyed about Codex Alera is how Butcher has taken the bog-standard fantasy novel plot and made it his own.

 

I have to agree with him. JKR is a attention whore the only thing is that Card is pointing it out. It's not that big of a deal.

 

I read Card's article and, though I don't think much of Ender's Game and I've been underwhelmed by Card as a writer, I agree that he makes a reasonable point in his article.

As for "attention whoring," it appears the article is just an entry in his regular column, one that has been running for several years. Obviously, having a column is going to give him more exposure, but it's not press-whoring in the sense of, say, coming out and holding a press conference about his latest psychological problems or after-the-fact announcing to the world irrelevant details about a central character's sexual orientation.

Until Card gets put on the CNN news ticker, he's not arrived as a true media whore.

 

Err... Sree, I'm pretty sure Card isn't saying Rowling copied him. He's mocking her ridiculousness.

 

Someone missed the (tongue in cheek) part. Sarcasm, anyone?

The article could be a bit more moderate in tone, but I agreed with a lot of it. Authors have published books on HP like the Lexicon for years already, it's only when it threatens the sale of her own 'definitive' encyclopedia that she goes apeshit over it.

And, LOL:

If this is actually true, aside from the lulz factor, Rowling needs a bitchslap for being a hypocrite.

 

I'm not saying he isn't right. I'm simply saying the man is an attention whore because he is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. He isn't involved with this and regardless of who is the better writer she is more successful than he will ever be therefore commenting when he isn't a widely respected literary critic or at least a better author than he is when he is not directly involved with the case earns him a stfu.

I'm going to go ahead and point out it isn't hypocritical because the two cases are completely different. One revolved around the use of the word muggle which was defined differently by JKR then Stouffer. There is no law against that if there was Colbert would have been sued a long time ago, and the characters Larry Potter and Lily Potter are a bit of a stretch to connect to JKR seeing as how if memory serves she got the name Potter from some old friends of hers and she is obsessed with flowers used as names. This isn't a case of her writing about someone else's work or even her stealing a vaguely similar plot line therefore it has no real bearing on this thread, and it doesn't make her a hypocrite at all.

 

On top of that, Stouffer wrote "The Legend of Rah and the Muggles" but never really sold any copies - she filed for bankruptcy before selling a single one. She had retroactively modified some of her original writings to get money out of JKR, and was fined $50,000 by the courts for bringing the suit against Rowling in the first place. "Larry Potter" wasn't published until much later, IIRC, unless someone has a source that says otherwise?

 

That logic fails, and it fails hard. He stated his opinion in a column that he already had about a subject that he's not involved with, so suddenly he's an attention whore? He didn't go to mass media, he stuck to a local column that he wrote anyways. Hell, the only reason we found out about this in the first place is someone took notice and let everyone know about it in a media people actually pay attention to.

In fact, just for the hell of it, let's apply your logic to someone else, say, you. You are posting an opinion about something you're not involved with in a media that a reasonable amount of people pay attention to. Therefore, you are an attention whore. It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, or that it's perfectly acceptable to state your opinion about it, stating your opinion about it is making you an attention whore, so shut the fuck up.

...At least, that's how it works with your logic.

 

I don't really think that is how it works with my logic. He is a fairly well known published author writing a news column that has a decent number of readers. It is safe to assume he knew the national media would find out about it and pick up the story. There is a huge difference in status between a published author and someone, say me, writing on a forum. For that matter had he been a critic or a better author then I wouldn't have called him an attention whore, but he has no reason to write about this other then to try and seek attention.

 

Or, lets go on a crazy tangent and say that he wrote this to create discussion and maybe make people think. No, nevermind, my thought process is way too crazy. Ignore this post.

 

TimeLord has to be one of the dumbest fucking posters I have ever read on this forum since we shitcanned Yarrgh and Cady. The only threads I've seen you take especial notice over are the ones involving J.K. Rowling's suit and it's the same bullshit over and over.

You're backing her for no reason on this and it's entirely different from the other thread in that that actually involves the details of the case and this involves whether or not Orson Scott Card is an attention-whore/right/whatever.

You're just backing J.K. Rowling is what you're doing and let me clear something up - this site hasn't been fond of J.K. Rowling as of late. It started somewhere around Half-Blood Prince and it's gone down hill since then. So to see someone with their head so far up someone's ass, they're giving the person a gut ache is annoying.

Orson Scott Card is a fabulous author - you don't need to sell millions of shitty airplane thriller books to be a "fabulous author", an "esteemed author" or a "great author" -- those are all opinions. I personally dislike his stories, but recognize his impact on the science fiction genre and that he has every right to discuss books.

We have every right to discuss how shitty J.K. Rowling's books are, how shitty her suits are and how shitty a human being she has become once she's gotten a taste of money. Orson Scott Card has the same right - he doesn't lose it once he sells a few million books, makes a few million dollars and receives various accolades.

Film critics are rarely directors or actors or anyone involved with the film-making process - yet they comment on the on-goings of the movies, critique how poor or how well they're received or made and yet no one complains about them or the various shows that cover the scandals, suits, highs and lows of the people involved with the movie process.

So let me say it again. You're a fucking moron. You're wrong on Rowling having a case in the sense that she allowed hundreds of books of a similar type to be produced and is now arguing over "how much is too much" when it comes to reference books. And Sree, you're obviously not in touch with the thrust of Card's argument because you've missed the boat by about thirty feet.

Card doesn't intend to claim plagiarism or even anything remotely of the sort - he intends to highlight the ludicrous notion that J.K. Rowling has the authority to police her work in such a way, the disingenuous method with which she dealt with Dumbledore's homosexuality that we all decried within moments of it hitting and how much of a cunt she is overall.

Dan Brown sold millions of books, made millions of dollars and secured a movie deal with the Da Vinci Code - does that mean he has a higher standing than the great authors of our time who actually appeal to our intelligence rather than just our basic instincts and requirement of entertainment?

Fuck no. I hated the Da Vinci Code. I hate the Harry Potter series past Book IV. I'd listen to Phillip Pullman's thoughts on how much of a piece of shit J.K. Rowling is. I've listened to Terry Pratchett pretty much say the same of her. J.K. Rowling doesn't get to build walls around her half-assed concepts of magic, characters and settings just because she made a cool billion off of them.

That's not how our legal system is intended to work. It may often favor the rich over those who are being sued but just as often, it's the rich who get smacked down for being overbearing cunts.

J.K. Rowling is the biggest fucking cunt, right behind Hillary Clinton, that much I do know.

 

-Reads Bio's Post-

::claps::

 

First of all, you seem to think I like JKR which if you read my posts you would know that I hate most of her series. Unlike, some of you I do keep things in perspective instead of being overtly bias. Did she fuck up books 4-7? Without a doubt she did fuck them over royally is that any reason to call her a cunt/attention seeking whore? No, there are plenty of other reasons for that like the way she acts in front of a camera for one or perhaps the way she continually adds stupid comments about the book like Dumbledore is gay. Those are good reasons. Citing a court case that has no baring on this discussion is just a blatant way to add fuel to the fire so to speak.

She fucked up, but until you come up with an amazing idea that makes you more money than the Queen, and causes people to wait in line for hours then I'm guessing whether or not your writing is good your idea, and the universe you came up with for your book to exist in is not as good as her ideas. Your writing may be better, and you may not be an attention seeking whore, but you are without a doubt an idiot for degrading her for no reason other than you didn't like how she wrote the last few books. How many of the authors can claim to have as much pressure put on them for their next work to be published from the media and fans as JKR did? Not many, it is no excuse for being weak and caving to the pressure by churning out shitty novels, but if you want to try and compare her to people then you need some perspective.

I admit she is horrible freely in quite a few of my posts about her, but her idea was great even if her follow through sucked. She has faults like anyone else. How many authors have you met in your lifetime? I've met quite a few that come by my university or that I travel to a place where they are giving a speech in order to meet with them. I've got news for you most of them are grade A attention seeking jerks who won't give fans or anybody else the time of day. Everyone has the right to critique another persons work, but this just comes off as an author being an attention whore as most are. I can actually put my personal opinions of an author aside and look at things objectively, and I will often either write an opposing look at things to balance out the argument or post both sides of it in my arguments so things are all lets go with the flow of what the masses think is right without considering the other side of the argument.

As for me making most of my posts on threads like these well they seem to be the most one sided threads imaginable which annoys me to no end. You will all complain about JKR while being on a website and writing fanfiction all of which wouldn't be possible without her original idea. Most people here from what I've seen from my time lurking and while I have been a member either go with whatever fits their view of things or what one of the more well known people on this forum say to be true. With the exception of some of the older/more well known members such as yourself, Vash, etc they contribute very little to the actual topic and spend most of the time repeating what has already been said in a different way.

Most of my posts on the other JKR related thread came from the fact that Garret PI was ignoring parts of my arguments, and he addressed what I was saying. I finally gave up on it because he would ignore parts of what I said that made a valid point. I'm not exactly sure how much sense I was making toward the end of that long drawn out argument as I was suffering from an extreme case of insomnia at the time, but I eventually gave up on it, and I haven't been back to the thread since I said I would consider it locked. I've made points on threads not related to JKR as well. Perhaps, you should head over to the work by author section where I have left comments.

In short, I agree with your views on JKR, but I refuse to just look at a one sided bias argument just because the majority of the people want to fit in here or are afraid of getting banned. My posts are put out there to point out things like the fact that someone referenced a court case that didn't even fit with this line of thought. I had problems in the work by author section a little while ago because people latched onto a small comment I made that wasn't that important, and they completely ignored my original question which was the point of the whole post. I post like this to try and show an opposing view so that people can see both sides of the argument, and just maybe learn to think for themselves.

I find it rather amusing that you would resort to insults right away in your first sentence. You make some good points in your post, but until you get over the fact that you and a lot of other people (including myself) didn't like the way Harry Potter was handled then you won't be able to look at things objectively. I strive to look at both sides before I make my final decision on a topic. I won't join the heard of sheeple that seem to gravitate to a few members of this forum which I think should be taken as a complement to those who get the heard to follow. They must have some great persuasive skills.

If you wish to ban me for this you can go ahead for all I care. I won't be posting again for at least a week anyway due to finals, and I'll be busy with that little thing called life this summer so I doubt I'll be on this forum much over the summer anyway. The only reason I'll stop by then is to drop by the work by author section as once I leave college for the summer my free time will practically vanish. If someone does decide I need to be banned then by all means go right ahead. I do request that Vash does the deed though. At least I'll contribute to his body count that way.

 

No one's banning you for having an opposing opinion. Just clean up your fucking post cause it reads like something Marie shit out.

And Sree: Are you allowed to clap? I thought you wiped your ass with one hand and ate with the other. Doesn't touching them together fuck that process up?

 

@Timelord: Which authors have you met? I've talked with both Orson Scott Card and Eoin Colfer, and they were both incredibly friendly and loved talking about their books and universes.

Card especially was incredibly interesting (or faked it well) in our ideas and thoughts on the Ender universe, including our criticisms of his adult-childs.

Most authors aren't douchbags. Rowling is a douchebag. Is she the most horrible person ever? No. Doesn't make her less of a douchebag.

 

*blinks*

Nice, how didja manage to actually get to talk with both of them? A convention/book signing or something (I thought those were more of a sign and go thing)?

 

I've managed to co-author papers with three published authors in speculative fiction, though it's not something all that uncommon in my line of work or locale. (Physics, and New Mexico has the largest per capita density of professional speculative fiction authors in the world).

In the interest of full disclosure, one isn't yet published, though he's signed a 3-book contract with Tor as his first professional sale. As he freely admits, "It's better to be lucky than good".

 

Book signing, however, Card's was basically empty of fans besides me and my friend. Everyone else was just a Book Store junkie. We just kept talking to him after the signing before he left. Really cool guy, a bit wacky, but REALLY enthusiastic about his work.

Eion Calfer was much the same, though there were a lot more of us.

My local book store gets a LOT of big names giving speeches and signing books. The authors especially usually have big Q and A sessions before the signing. JKR came once, around the fourth books premier, but I didn't go. Mom got a few things signed, however. She didn't really talk much, from what I heard.

 

I like authors that aren't afraid of talking with their fans. I guess most don't want people asking questions they can't or don't want to answer. Or they are afraid of fans like us who are rather open with criticism.

If I were an author I would have my own forum so I could communicate with my fanbase. Just gotta make sure you don't let the fans influence how you want the plot to go.

That's a shame that there was no one showing up. I loved Ender's Game and its following books. HP was aimed at kids and a wider audience so JKR would draw huge lines for book signings. With Ender's Game you either like ScFi or you don't. Most kids and some adults wouldn't understood what they just read anyway when they put Ender down.