I agree with the "Hedwig is unusually intelligent," I figure that all that time she and Harry spent locked in Harry's room together would have bound her a little tighter than the usual post owl connection. Moreover, Sirius spent months hanging around Harry and Hogwarts, and she actually saw him at the beginning of PoA. That's at the minimum. Hedwig and Sirius might have known each other pretty well, just by both being near Harry. Sirius might have made a point of not blocking Hedwig's access when he hid from everyone else.
It's quite reasonable to presume that familiarity would influence a post owl's locator ability.


I can't see Hermione NOT trying to cast spells as soon as she got her wand, unless she was directly and specifically warned not to do so by someone in authority. On the other hand, she's smart enough to figure out that she could cast in Diagon Alley. Perhaps she simply got her parents to take her to the Leaky several times so that she could practice.

 

Well, if the trace was put on them pre-Hogwarts, that would mean she should have been stopped, no?

Yak- Aww fuck, again I display my amazing ability to ignore DH, I completely forgot about that... Well, I was going to stick with the 'Track by location' method, ie the monitering of the homes, because the 'Track' idea lacks both consitency and application. Numerous times in canon spells are cast around Harry, best instance of the top of my head is in OotP when he is taken away by the Order (a vigilanty group hated at the time by the Ministry, and so wouldn't they try to investigate such an occurance, especially considering an Auror was also casting). Plus, how would they know when to warn someone if they were not sure whose magic is being cast? Furthermore, if that was the case, how about when the spells were being cast against Harry in the graveyard at the end of GoF? Surely Dumbledore would have called upon the records of such a 'Trace' in order to prove he, Harry, was attacked... Semantics, in my opinion, and a location based recording system would be much easier to explain canon circumstances. But hey, who are we to argue with JKR; Dumbledore is gay, after all.

Banner, pre-Hogwarts Hermione was a large stiffler for the rules, so I must agree that if she was told told she couldn't perform magic she wouldn't; thus, this leads me to question the application of the 'Trace' even further and ask when it is placed upon a person. Perhaps at Hogwarts, thus forgoing any previous 'accidental' magic before they get instruction on how to wield and control magic (Riddle springs to mind here, in his liberal use).

So, for such a device to be used in my story, I will have to ignore the 'Trace' idea, thus not effecting my plot in any way.

Thanks for the help guys,

Dark-Stallion

 

Who says it was put on pre-Hogwarts? The evidence (Hermione not being stopped by the Ministry) points otherwise.

The Trace is consistent. This is how I remember it being used in canon.

The Trace is applied to underage wizards some time before they're sent home on their first school holiday (Christmas?). We don't know exactly when, only that the Trace must be active by then. The Trace is either inactive or ignored during the rest of the school year, including when they're off the grounds in Hogsmeade or raiding the DoM.

The Trace detects all magic spells that occur in the vicinity of the underage wizard during holidays. All spells.

If the Trace cannot detect an adult wizard (perhaps any wizard without the Trace would qualify as 'adult') in the vicinity, then the Ministry is alerted and Mafalda Hopkirk sends out her letter.

That's the consistent behaviour of the Trace as I understand it's behaviour in canon.

 

Examples?

First in CoS;

Elf magic is seemingly picked up without any difference to human magic; not getting into a magical debate here, but as you say Dobby wouldn't have a trace, and if the detector works by picking up magical signals surely it would have seen Dobby as an adult without the Trace (assuming it works as such, having picked up his particular brand of magic to begin with), so wouldn't that mean he was with an adult? Here we see where it picks up magic, but not a being that is Trace-less. Understandably the Ministry, being as prejudice as it is, probably wouldn't class House Elves as an 'adult', but still they are able to perform a brand of magic which is picked up by said Trace...

Think of all the instances that could stem from this; any family owning a House Elf wouldn't be able to leave their child alone during the holidays, for the Ministry would surely pick up the Elf's magic and assume, with no adults present, that it was cast by an underage student...

Just thoughts, for at the moment I am too busy to write it out, but it will come!

Dark-Stallion

EDIT:

I never said it was Pre-Hogwarts, in fact that sentence implies that, due to evidence given that Hermione performed spells Pre-Hogwarts, the trace was done after the start of the school year; drugging food of innocent school-children for the win! (It's the way I would do it!)

 

House Elf =/= Wizard.

You bring up a good question about how house elves work when only children are around. Pehaps they just don't perform magic around children. Dobby knew that he shouldn't perform magic around Harry. He deliberately did so in an attempt to get Harry expelled.

Therefore, house elves (even a retarded one like Dobby) know that they shouldn't cast magic charms around children without an adult wizard present.

The Trace Prevails!

 

I conceed, and as my story will be an AU anyway, will stick my finger up at your damn Trace!!!

Seriously, thanks for the extra idea though; even if I don't end up posting this fic up at least it will be out of my damn mind and will let me concentrate on my studies!

Ta,
Dark-Stallion.

 

I would say the trace is applied on them when they get to hogwarts after all other than giving people a view of hogwarts there does not seem to be any point to the boat ride

so could they be using the castle as a distraction to allow the ministry to apply the charm while everyone is looking at the castle

and as to the detecting the magic maybe it only works when the level of magic in the persons body reaches a certain level and maybe dobby tricked the trace into thinking it was harry

or could there be two parts to it one that scans the location for magic and then the trace allows them to know the person who did the magic

 

Well, the Trace is canon, but my dispute was over whether to use it or not; hence my decleration that, while I conceed it is a viable option, I prefer the Location tracking.

As to when it is placed, clearly not before Hogwarts, but I would surmise that it would be at the feast; poisoning is the way forwards. It would suck if it was something simple, like the barrier between 9 3/4; that would explain, however, why they force kids to take that stupid means of transport every time they go to/from Hogwarts (to apply and then remove the Trace effectively for the holidays and school term respectively).

That actually makes sense... Go me!

Dark-Stallion.

 

I would laugh if the Trace is applied to all the first years during the welcoming feast via drugged food by Dumbledore.

I can't count how many manipulative/evil Dumbledore fics have done this, but it may actually hold some water after all.

 

What about the kids that don't go to Hogwarts? Home-schooled, or private academy?

 

Yes, but then they try to come home a couple of hours later, get lost in the dark, fall into every creek, muddy patch, and blackberry bush on the way home. Speaking from personal experience here. After you do that once, you never run away again...

As for the story, I'd be very very careful. This could be fantastic or failful. I like the idea of him being trained to enjoy cleanliness by Petunia, and being disgusted by Hagrid and the potions and goblins.

 

Personally, I don't think that your plot makes much sense at all.

But that doesn't matter. As long as you write well, and as long as your plot isn't too retarded, readers will jump over themselves trying to resolve your plot holes. Just look at this forum.

Look at the famous novels. The Kite Runner.

Spoiler

What are the chances Amir meets his childhood tormenter Assef sexually abusing the son of his best friend, whom Assef raped decades before? Keep in mind Assef is a German-looking Taliban commander in Afghanistan.

Very unlikely for that situation in real life to occur. But you never see readers complaining about how unrealistic it is. The Kite Runner's still a great novel.

Dark-Stallion, write your story, irregardless of how irrational it seems. Just write it well.

 

I'd suppose that they do it the old fashioned way for them. Or maybe not at all, they could assume the parents will take care of it.


BTW, the word 'irregardless' is irrational and does not exist.

 

After DH I thought a bit about when the trace would be applied. It would seem fairly obvious that it isn't in place until you start school.

Good candidates would include the archway or whatever it is that the boats go under when the first years ride across the lake. You'll recall Hagrid telling everyone to duck. Of course, there's always a chance that a child might miss the boat ride.

Every first year gets sorted. The Sorting Hat might be enchanted to put the Trace on any child that wears it. I doubt the Trace has been around since the founding of the school, so this spell would have to have been added to the Hat at a later date.

Every first year sits on a stool when sorted. It could be that the Trace is placed on a child when they sit on the stool.

Passing through the door the first years use to enter the school before their sorting could plant the Trace as well. Assume it's 'programmed' to ignore staff members or, even more likely, all adults.

Edit: And let me just say that I don't particularly like the muddled way JKR implemented underage magic detection. At least if it had been consistent it wouldn't be so bad. If you want to leave the Trace out of your story or implement it in a different manner, do so.

 

I have a question:
To put the Trace on All the children in the British Wizarding World, and maintain it for a minimum of seven years must take a great deal of magickal energy. Especially considering that the children (who would be highly motivated in their search) can't find and remove it themselves. No rune would be carved on the wand, Absolutely Nothing that could be seen or smelled or heard by the kid. Can't be removed or bypassed by the parents - the Dark families, especially, would remove it as soon as possible so that their children could practice magick and so they couldn't be monitored by the Ministry. Remember that Ron left the country for the summer, but presumably the Trace was still there when he got back.
Since Hermione could practice with her wand until she actually started school, I think that it IS applied while at Hogwarts. But you are overlooking something, people: the Trace doesn't need to be active until the kids actually leave Platform 9 3/4 after leaving the school. That gives at least three months time for it to be applied (Sept 1-first day of Winter break.) I figure that it's probably on the archway that the firsties go under in the boats, but it could well be reinforced in the children's food throughout the first term. It might even be some sort of multiple stage casting, including trips to the infirmary wing, and possibly during end-of-term examinations.
So... what powers the spell?
I think it feeds off the magic of the wielder. That would justify a multi-stage casting, and would be responsive to the child's physical age. The infirmary aspect would include a countdown to the seventeenth birthday.

 

I have another question:

Why do you spell "magic" and "magical" with a k in the middle? Is that another British/American thingy?

As for the "Trace" business, I consider it to be JKR's biggest fuck-up. Nothing is coherent about it. The fact that Harry only learnt of it at 17, after receiving a warning at the age of 12 and attending a disciplinary hearing at 15, proves she invented it while writing DH with little regard for the previous 6 books.

My first assumption was that it was put on the wands sold to 11-year-olds by Ollivander himself, but that doesn't work, since magic that occurs around Harry (but does not issue from his wand) is detected as his own. Then there's the Hermione thing, but I sincerely think JKR just forgot about that line. Having all first-years go through a medical examination during their first week at Hogwarts would seem like the best way to do it, but I can't think of a reason why the Trace would be placed on them without them knowing. Telling them about it would be a good way to discourage them from doing magic in the first place, wouldn't it?

To conclude: the Trace doesn't make any sense at all, no matter how you look at it. It's an exclusively DH idea.

To Banner: your idea of the spell being powered by the caster's energy isn't bad, but there's a snag: there isn't real canon evidence of lasting charms being powered by anything at all. It could be a dormant spell just waking up when the Decree is violated.

And last: in the name of all that's holy, could you please press the enter key twice when you start a new paragraph? Please?

 

My feeling is that the trace is applied to all newborns. It detects accidental magic and adds their name to the hogwarts register. It isnt a crime to do magic out of school until after they get to school.

 

JoJo23, the Trace wasn't implemented until some time after 1875. How do you propose young wizards and witches names were added to the Hogwart's register before then?

Also, you can only go to Hogwart's (and, I would assume, be on their register) if you can afford it. So, they wouldn't automatically put every name on the register. You have to pay. Hogwarts costs money... that's not fanon, is it? I'm pretty sure it's canon, but I'd hate to make that mistake.

 

Yeah, in canon the gingers were always bitching about sending so many kids to school because of the cost.

 

I always interperated that as 'books, cauldrons, other supplies' cost so much money. If Hogwarts has fees, where do the children go who can't afford it? Do you think The Creevey's can afford to send Colin and Dennis to a private school on a milkman's salary?

I don't think Hogwarts has fees.