Actually, according to the story, this spell is supposed to be weak at first. Usage over and over again lends strength to the spell, but it was supposed to be once a week. Since Ginny screwed up in casting once a week and was being aggresive, Harry caught on.

@ Dirk. Actually, as interesting as it is with Molly, I wonder about Ron since he was casting that spell at Hermione. He did it once a week as per instruction, but probably stopped when he got in trouble from Harry. Call it impatience, idiocy, lack of understanding of the spell or all 3, Ron messed up. Hermione was probably gonna be alright in a few weeks. I just wonder what Harry/Hermione will say when they confront him.

@Taure: I agree and disagree with everyone here about punishment. The Weasley's have been with Harry too long for him to do something... uh... drastic. Yeah, Ginny/Ron did something akin to date rape (and both were close in the own sick ways.) but in the end, they also risked their lives for Harry during the DoM. What they did is wrong and they probably should be expelled and/or suspended. On the other hand, they did a lot for him too for whatever reasons they might have. There is a debt that Harry has to acknowledge.

With all that said, I'll leave it to Scary. It's actually well written here. Again, Harry has to make the choice he always has to make: Right or Easy. I think it was a great chapter Scary. I'd prefer they'd use veritaserum or something to threaten Ginny though. Harry's threats were kinda weak.

 

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen. Originality is the key to success, at least in this instance.

I've already said everything I wanted to say about this chapter in a review, won't bother repeating myself.

 

Brilliant chapter. It's good to see that subplot wrapped up, although maybe I missed something but what about Hermione's dreams about Molly at the burrow?

I do agree that there should be some retribution but I don't think they're going to get of scot free either.

 

Oh, you've discovered sarcasm and unwarranted invective, clearly your arguments are beyond reproach.

Cheating is cheating. She knew what she was risking when she put herself in that situation and decided to jump in with both feet. It doesn't really get more complicated than that. Sure you said it wasn't 'clear cut cheating' but that doesn't change the fact that it was a bullshit phrase. Next you'll pull a Clinton and debate the definition of the word 'is'.

Don't try to act like I'm mentally deficient simply because I didn't repeat your words verbatim for you. I know what I read, I know what quoted, and I know what I wrote. You seem to be the one that needs help in the comprehension department, or is it just that you're diving in so fast to try and insult me that you weren't paying quite as much attention as you should have?

This was 'clear cut cheating', but I didn't repeat the phrase because it was a fucking ignorant thing to say in the first place.

So... you're not denying that cheating is being unfaithful, just that Fleur wasn't responsible for her actions? I must have missed the death eater in the corner that was casting the Imperius on her. Everyone has an excuse for why they cheated, whether they cheated big or small, and the vast majority of the time, those excuses are total bullshit.

"I was drunk. I was depressed. I was angry. I was curious. It was the hormones." Bullshit.

That doesn't mean she didn't do it, nor does it change the fact that she was well aware that what ended up happening was a very real possibility, right from the start. Gosh, she was just utterly helpless in the face of that all powerful curiosity (certainly this relieves her of any culpability).

I wonder if anyone's ever tried the curiosity defense and had it work.

"You cheated on me!"
"No, it wasn't my fault! I was just really curious what my dick would feel like in her cunt."
"Oh, thank goodness, you were just curious. For a minute I thought you'd cheated on me and fucked another girl. What a relief, for a minute their I thought you'd sabotaged our relationship and destroyed my trust."

(For the common sense impaired, the above was a hyperbolic example to emphasize the ridiculousness of the 'curiosity' excuse and not a representation of what I think Harry and Fleur did. Christ... have to put a disclaimer on everything these days. It's amazing how many people think that drain cleaner is a soft drink.)

This didn't help your case in the slightest. By the way, plenty of people have regrets about things they've done, that doesn't make them any less guilty of committing the act. Prison is full of people who regret things.

(And before you prop up the fucking strawman, no, I'm not saying people should/do go to prison for cheating on their partner.)

You've got to be fucking kidding me. I'd like to see someone use this excuse with their significant other and see if it flies. "I didn't mean to, Honey, it just sort of happened."

Yes, it did happen. She helped make it happen. That she didn't write "snog Harry" in her day planner that morning doesn't make her any less responsible for her actions.

Well, I'm sure Bill will take great comfort in the amount of trust his fiancé has in Harry.

I'll admit I didn't make myself terribly clear there. I wasn't so much referring to an actual change of wardrobe, as much as the fact that what little she was wearing (a pair of barely-there knickers and a shirt that wasn't long enough to cover them) frequently rode up, or sagged, and became progressively more revealing during their 'completely innocent' snuggling... and snogging. Also, once your hands are up another person's shirt, the difference between whether it is on them or the floor becomes largely academic.

It doesn't matter how non-threatening she perceived Harry to be, it wasn't appropriate to be dressed that way in bed with someone who wasn't her fiancé. She could have worn a longer shirt, (maybe some shorts...) but she wanted to tease and sexually excite him. There was nothing innocent about her intentions. She was very much enjoying the effect she had on him and made no effort to hide it. That he was 'non-threatening' just meant she could tease him all she wanted without having to worry that he'd be the one to make the first move.

The bottom line being that everything from the way she dressed around Harry in her bedroom, to her behavior around him, was entirely inappropriate for someone who was engaged to another person. Call it what you will, she was being unfaithful. Sure, it's her business if she wants to do that, but it doesn't change what she did.

I don't really have any problem (beyond the odd spelling and grammatical errors) with the Harry/Fleur in France scenes other than the attempt to say she wasn't guilty of cheating. She was. Making excuses for her is merely an attempt to elevate her above the act of betrayal (no matter how large or small) she committed.

She could have taken it all the way and fucked Harry and I wouldn't have cared, (beyond how callous it would have been to do that and then tell him she's staying with Bill) but to pretend she's an innocent saint afterwards (in either this hypothetical situation or with what was actually written) just wouldn't be right.

Out of one side of your mouth you say she didn't cheat, and out of the other you attempt to insult me by suggesting I should stop reading (or read Unchained) if I don't want to read about imperfect characters that make poor decisions.

Well, which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either Fleur made a poor decision and did something with Harry she shouldn't have (cheat) or, she didn't do anything wrong and your rant about perfect characters was pointless.

If Bill had whisked a cruciated Hermione off to a flat in Egypt and proceeded to spend the weekend snuggling with her in bed, wearing naught but a banana hammock, and finished off her convalescence by straddling her and engaging in a therapeutic snogging session (just to sate his overwhelming curiosity), I doubt Fleur or anyone else would be feeling very charitable towards him. As well they shouldn't.

I believe I never said anything about this subject of Fleur coming clean to Bill at all but, by all means, please continue foaming at the mouth. It makes you look overwhelmingly in control of yourself.

Pfft, whatever. The fact that you have to resort to childish attacks doesn't impress.

What you fail to see is that Hermione wasn't forgetting like Harry was. What's her excuse for not approaching a trusted adult and trying to get some advice? Sure, she couldn't completely remember what happened with Molly, but at this stage in the story that was a moot point. She had a fairly strong idea of what was going on and who was doing it. Maybe Harry was too mind-fucked to retain any common sense, but Hermione doesn't have that excuse.

Feel free to go ahead and backpedal and say that Hermione was just as debilitated by the spell as Harry was so you'll actually have a somewhat valid excuse for her too; I hear it works well for JKR.

Though the Imperius resistance that others brought up is, I feel, a pretty valid point, I'm ignoring your comment on it because I never brought it up in my post. I'm not in the mood to defend other peoples' statements. You want to bitch about Imperius Resistance, then take it up with the people that mentioned it, not me. It is MY post you're quoting from, after all.

I beg to differ. Waaaaay back before Harry was being relentlessly subjected to Ginny's spell, it was obvious that something happened to Hermione and they both decided that it was better to wait around and do nothing, even though they knew someone had done something to her and then tried to cover up her memories of the event.

And, once again, you're only giving an excuse for why Harry isn't taking action, that still leaves Hermione, who was aware that their behavior was being manipulated. She chose to do nothing. Voldemort is out there doing his worst, he has allies in the school, Hermione knows someone is tampering with their minds... she decides to sit on her hands and wait for the answer to fall into her lap.

Even if she suspected that this was nothing more than an attempt by Ginny to snag Harry, attempted rape isn't exactly harmless. Plus, it doesn't matter who is pulling the strings nor for what reason they're pulling them, having Harry mentally impaired by magic, no matter the means or motives behind it, during this time of conflict is a terribly dangerous situation.

Whether Harry was in a position to seek help or not, Hermione was. However, she chose to do nothing.

--

And, my god, I agree with Taure. Ginny should be punished. Yes, boohoo, she lost the love of her life. Never again will she have a chance to even so much as be Harry's friend.

Cry me a river.

She not only attempted to put him in a position where he would be repeatedly raped (since any sex act they performed would be non-consensual), she attempted to alter the course of his entire life!

She also put the war effort in jeopardy. If the Order of the Phoenix were a military group worth their salt, she'd be tried for treason, not just sex crimes, and dealt with accordingly.

Mommy dearest already knows what Ginny did, hell, she conspired with her! Who is Ginny going to answer to? No one.

What's keeping her from using another method to get what she wants, since Harry clearly isn't going to want her of his own free will now? Nothing.

Yet she is allowed to walk away with a promise of secrecy from her victims. Possibly their most bone-headed move to date.

Parvati conspired to rape and control Harry as well and what justice will she face? Her angry twin sister? Puh-leaze!

Speaking of which, Padma is another example of a character acting like a moron.

Padma thinks Harry and Hermione don't know the depth of Parvati's involvement here. If her motives truly are in line with what Padma suspects, then the Gryffindor twin is a very dangerous timebomb just waiting to go off. Clearly, if Ginny's plan doesn't pan out, then Parvati's revenge hasn't been satisfied either. Bearing that in mind, what will she resort to next to get her revenge?

But instead of warning the unawares, from her point of view, Harry and Hermione, Padma would prefer to keep them in the dark about Parvati. Good call, Padma, now we can all see why you're in Ravenclaw. Or not.

 

I believe I was the one that said something to that effect, not that Warlocke dude.

 

Have you ever noticed how overanalysing something saps all the fun out of the story? By doing this, you can find a fault with any piece of literature or media ever created, let alone a first time writer. We can't all make work of Brian's caliber on our first full length attempt. Call it whinging, as I'm sure some idiot will think it. There are, however, always going to be some aspects of a story you can have problems with. This is no different.

Personally, while there a few things I had issues with regarding the Fleur scenes, I thought they were fine. Sure, Fleur's attitude is... unusual in that situation. I would attempt to explain the reasons why she did - and this is reasons, not excuses - but I'd be repeating myself. Read previous posts.

@ Warlocke.

I do apologize for the insults. I was multi-pissed off last night. Don't believe me? That's fine. Though with some of your responses, considerably more insulting than my own, I might change my mind on that.

The alternative to not saying anything is saying something, which reflects the same scenario. That's why I referenced that post. That is the alternative.

Foaming at the mouth? Yes, I believe I always do that when I move from one option to the other. You're quite observant. You calling me immature due to my insults seems kind of hypocritical here, with your own masterfully crafted immaturity.

Yeeep. I feel your maturity all the way from Sydney. It's quite potent.


Now, is there a medium I could have done between saying something and not saying something? Genuinely asking here, not sarcasm. I do not see it at the moment. It is either saying something or nothing.


Before I go any further, it seems I must reiterate that I have never claimed that Fleur was innocent, perfect, or a saint, because a considerable portion of your post, Warlocke, can be responded to by this. All I have attempted to explain was that, personally, it isn't as simple as saying 'Fleur cheated on Bill'. Maybe I'm immature here, as I have not had the displeasure of being cheated upon, but I still stand by my stance that Fleur did not actively attempt to cheat on Bill, and that makes a small difference than if she had intentionally walked up to Harry and had her way with him right there and then.

Again, I have not attempted to excuse Fleur's actions. I have said this at least a half dozen times in the past few weeks here. Yet, when you people come to share your negative opinions regarding the Fleur business, you continue to claim that I do. While I still try to be a nice guy, the continued use of the same point of argument makes it very difficult to not write an entire post of insults, no matter how petty or immature, as it seems that certain people are unable to accept this without using flames.

Another considerable portion of the Fleur side of your post has already been explained. I am not going into it, for I am repeating myself, and you will tear at it, and we will be back here again.

Yeah... I have no idea what you meant by the strawman. I wasn't even going to say anything about the prison comment.

Again, I wasn't trying to excuse Fleur. This is seems to be a recurring theme. I say something, someone interprets it as me making it out that she's innocent of any wrong doing.

The further I read, the more I have to repeat the same thing, it seems. I. Did. Not. Ever. Claim. Fleur. Was. Innocent. She. Is. Responsible. For. Her. Actions.

I can understand the problem with what Fleur was wearing, but I fail to see what more I can say than Fleur felt no reason to wear anything different when, originally, they were simply to sleep in the same bed. It was never meant to be 'cuddling'. The first night was to distract Harry. The second night it was the same. The third night was because there had been something between them.

My intent when I wrote that was not for Fleur to want to 'tease and sexually excite' Harry. She was acting how she normally did around people. She isn't ashamed of herself, and, as said, was not concerned about Harry attempting anything on her. Harry did react and Fleur noticed but moved on. She would be used to people reacting in the same way as Harry did. It wouldn't bother her much. Only on that third night did she ever consider anything further than enjoying sleeping in the same bed a person who moved little in their sleep.

I can respect that opinion, and do, however it was not my intent to attempt to excuse her from her actions. It never has been and never will. I know she did something wrong and she know she did something wrong. I've said as much quite a few times in this topic, and in the last few pages. That's the only problem I have with your problem. You have made it out that I have tried to excuse her when I haven't done or intended that at all.

In the same fashion, nor do yours.


Look, some people did not have a problem with the scenes, some do. Fair enough. I can understand if you do, it is a messed up situation. That was the point. It was supposed to complicated matters.

Fleur's actions were not particularly desirable in the situation she was in. She gave in, made the mistake and will have to pay for it in due time.

As you've said, your main problem is that I've attempted to excuse her from her actions. If you still believe that at this point, then I'm afraid you'll remain that way inclined. I don't think I say it any clearer than what I already have. While I regret that you have misinterpreted, the other 99% that have reviewed have shown their understanding.

I will say no more, as repeating myself, funnily enough, is quite repetitive.


Now, onto the spell side.

Hermione wanted to figure it out without getting other people involved. This was between her, Harry and Ginny. Dislike it, fine, but that's what I pictured.

Besides, Dumbledore has a habit of letting Harry's problems sort themselves out. McGonagall would have acted, yes. But Hermione, being the young woman she is, sorts out her own problems by herself. She backed herself, and made mistakes.

The Imperius comment was directed at all, rather than solely you. I'll make that clearer next time.

True. My mistake. When Ginny started upping the dosage on the spell is where that part began.

We were referring to Harry, but okay.

Hermione held suspicions back then. There was no certainty, at least from what I recall writing. To not act prematurely, she decided, and Harry, as he trusted and believed in Hermione, went along with her decision, to determine what was wrong themselves. They're trying to become independant from the Professors and rely on themselves. Later on when it got worse, probably yes, Hermione should have seeked aid. However, I was in the same mentality as I was before. Hermione wanted to solve this herself.

LuxDragon pretty much covered my mentality here. I'm not going to have, as one of my reviewers put it, 'fire and brimstone' for the Weasley's and their actions. The group are sorting their problems internally. You can dislike it, but it is how I chose to write and how I chose to have the story progress with my purpose for those characters in mind.

I'm not carting Ginny off to Azkaban and she isn't going to be tortured. There will be a price, but it won't be in play for awhile.

There is actually no evidence of Parvati having any involvement at all. She became friends with Ginny at a peculiar time, certainly. Though, from Ginny's revelation, she did everything herself. Parvati was not mentioned.

Padma has suspicions, but no semblence of proof. Imagine your twin sister had possibly done what Ginny has, would you quickly speak out against her, or want to find out more first? Padma chose the latter, because being informed is something important to her, and to Ravenclaws in general. Knowledge, for a lot of Ravenclaws, is their power. Making presumptions on little to no evidence is not exactly intelligent either.


Okay, I've attempted, several times, to several different people, to explain my reasonings behind my choices and why I wrote the France part in the manner I did. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and some are just not going to like it. I accept that. So, after this, unless something really ticks me off, or there is a problem that has yet to be covered regarding the Fleur part, I won't bother replying, as repeating myself has grown very tiresome.

Uh, no, that isn't going to happen. You can murder me if I do do that.

No, that's still to come in the next chapter.

I have already written the chapter but as a reasonable person, Sera, what would you have as punishment?

He was a little messed up at the time, and canon Harry's threats were pretty sub-par too. That will change, though. He has some good/bad influences on that front.

And you're pretty spot on everything, really.

 

WTF are we still arguing about this? Anyone?

 

Argument is to DLP as food and water are to humanity.

 

More than anything, I'm glad that Darren brought closure to the majority of the Ginny storyline in this chapter. Now matters that have more than a personal significance can be addressed.

 

Well I for one enjoy Warlock's well thought stompy rants.

 

Official or unofficial?

Officially a suspension or the revoking of quidditch rights would be all the school would really do.

Unofficially, leaking the story to the rest of the school in detail especially in the Hufflepuff and Gryffindor houses would be adequate when you consider Ginny's apparent 'popularity'.

I pray to god you avoid a 'Prank war' though.

@Warlocke. Serious post was serious. Simma down nao.

 

What about the Ministry?

 

Depends on whether the issue is viewed as serious mind-control, or acceptable love potion influence. If its the former, no idea, but should be severe. If the latter, then they can't do diddly squat, as Ministry has no immediate jurisdiction over Hogwarts' internal affairs (at least, that's what you'd think after OotP).
Personally, all three Weasleys should be tossed out of the Order via Unbreakable oath, and Ron and Ginny expelled. But I doubt Darren's gonna be so vindictive.

 

Even if the magic itself is viewed as acceptable, the act of rape is surely a crime by the Ministry of Magic, no matter what magic is used to achieve it (or indeed if it is done with no magic at all).

 

To be honest I don't think that Harry would want to draw massive attention to himself at the moment.

Boy-who-lived being cursed into love by a schoolgirl is big enough news.

 

With all the machinations that Harry has set forth in motion, most importantly the DA, drawing attention to himself is going to be the last thing he has an interest in.

Given the looks Harry and Ginny exchanged at the conclusion of the scene, neither really wants this to ever be mentioned again. For this reason, don't really see Harry relating this information to any administrative bodies.

 

If the love potion influence is deemed acceptable, then all consequent actions are also acceptable I guess.

 

Not really.

The act of pushing someone is perfectly legal. It is not legal to push someone off a cliff.

So too, the act of giving a person a love potion may be legal, but the act of using it to rape a person not.

 

QFT! Though I fail to see how something like a potion that induces the kinds of emotions equated with lust would not be illegal.