She didn't ask to be called a nickname. She didn't say 'Hey! Call me Morphgirl,' or some stupid shit like that. She asked to be called by her LAST NAME. In my society (and I don't know what society you live in Mr. Social Convention), everyone is supposed to call you: Mr. Lastname unless they know you and you allow them to call you differently. First names imply intimacy. And you have full rights to deny even the president that intimacy and ask him- or even demand him- to call you by your last name.

If my name was Joe Starks I would ask to be called Mr. Starks by someone I didn't know. I would only let close friends or acquaintances call me Joe. And if I hated the name Joe, I would expect everyone to call me Starks or Mr. Starks. To do differently would be rude, no matter who you are.

 

If I played -fuck, I don't know- paintball on the weekends with Bill gates and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, they would not outrank me because it is outside the scope of their jobs. So if they called me something I did not wish to be called, the only excuse would be that they think they're allowed because they're simply better than I am. At which point, I'd make their new nicknames 'douchebag 1' and 'douchebag 2'.

Where is all of this formality in the Order? If rank and station are so important within the Order, then he should not be referring to her in so familiar a fashion anyway, he should be calling her 'Auror Tonks' or 'Ms. Tonks' every time he addresses her.

The Order members certainly don't address him as 'Chief Wizard' or 'Supreme Mugwump', and the ones that call him 'headmaster' likely just do so out of habit.

His government positions, while perhaps useful to the Order's goals (thought that's debatable), have no meaning within the Order. There is no real rank or chain of command within the Order. He can't pull rank on an Order member by saying, "I'm the Supreme Mugwump!" Sure, he pretty much runs the operations (shoddily) but, once again, there are no ranks within the Order. Augusta Longbottom likely runs the Pureblood Ladies Sewing Auxiliary with more precision and formality.

The Order is an informal group who tend to address one another in a casual fashion and more or less operate the same way (or else they might have actually accomplished something). We're not talking military precision here. That being the case, formality has nothing to do with how he addresses her and, not having even that flimsy excuse, he should address her as she wishes to be. Otherwise, there's no justification for him acting that way towards her except that he just feels like being a dick.

The fact is, the whole, "Don't call me Nymphadora!" shtick was just a device to inject some tepid humor into the books and something to do in lieu of actually fleshing out Tonks's personality because, while she was a potentially interesting character, she was never really utilized to even a moderate portion of her potential.

Bearing that in mind, any writer honestly interested in fleshing out Tonks's character doesn't need to resort to the 'Don't call me Nymphadora' gag more than once with Dumbledore. If he continues to ignore her wishes, he's just being a big fat bearded bag of douche.

Quoted For Truth.

 

Exactly. Fanon-wise, everyone always tells everyone else to "better call her by her last name, or she'll insert painful and/or humiliation retaliation". However, nobody tells Dumbledore this, not even Tonks herself. Because they respect him. He knows this and knows that he'd get away with calling her by her first name every time. Much like a bully.

It's not a fucking nickname, it's her goddamned last name. It's Dumbledore that is being rude, for crying out loud.

...


So, what is your first name anyway? It is, after all, impolite to call you Taure without your expressed permission, non? And everyone should call everyone else by first name by default...

Also, ever heard anyone say something along the lines of "Hi, I'm David, but call me Dave."?

 

This is so stupid, half of the problem is that this is a 3/4 fanon invented issue. Tonks doesn't want her friends to call her Nymphadora, and most people in the order are somewhat close, they address each other informally. NOT DUMBLEDORE. He keeps members at a certain distance, he inspires respect and has an ascendant over anyone in any conversation (or situation, for that matter). Him calling people what he wants is part of this, but he never breaks social convention - she cannot expect him to call her otherwise, she does not ask him to, because he is not her friend, and it's even possible she does not want him to. They are not playing paintball, and they were not introduced by 'Hi, call me Albus', 'Hi, my name sucks so I'll kill you if you use it, even though that's what you're actually socially expected to do'.

If you're trying to prove that fanon Dumbledore is sometimes a douchebag, very well done.

Wonderful. There you go. People call him professor Dumbledore, just like Harry calls R.J. 'professor Lupin', out of habit. This is something Dumbledore has no reason to change.

Any writer resorting to that to flesh out her character is stupid, any writer resorting to that at all is being cliché, and therefore stupid, and if they resort to it in relation to Dumbledore they're probably stupid again because it's not something Tonks would do in a normal situation.

Edit: And she probably doesn't want to be called Ms Tonks either, although I'm sure he would do so if she asked.

 

Oephyx, I think you've missed the point entirely. Whether or not Dumbledore has the 'power' to call her what he wants and get away with it is not the point. He is still disrespecting her by refusing to acknowledge a common courtesy. She's not asking to be called anything outlandish or rude. She simply prefers to be called her surname. There is nothing whatsoever strange about that.

I won't reiterate the number of points that have been made as to why Dumbledore should respect Tonks. However, keep in mind that this entire debate stemmed from the fact that Banner said that when Dumbledore refuses to follow this tiny, tiny request - he is being rude. End. Of. Story.

Whether you personally feel that you can go around ignoring your 'lessers' choice of name is ireelevant. I'd still think you were a douchebag for doing it, even if nobody called you out on it.

 

You seem to think that it is the right of everyone to stipulate their own name and thus it is disrespect to call them something else. This is not the case. You name is your name, and though "Tonks" is indeed her surname, "Nymphadora" is her first name, and so equally valid.

I would say not calling someone what they ask you to be call them has nothing at all to do with the notion of respect, or even courtesy. If Dumbledore did call her as she asked, it would not be a case of courtesy but a case of humouring/indulging her.

In addition, as her previous Headmaster, "Nymphadora" is how he would have known her as a teacher.

Also, there is some doubt as to whether her request to be known as Tonks is completely serious, as my previous post mentioned.

 

Right, sorry. Stick to fanon, got it.

So then, my only point is that a writer featuring Tonks saying 'I'll kill you if you call me Nymphadora' and then he does, Tonks is being rude, Dumbledore is following social convention, and the writer is probably a fool. End of story (I wanted to put all that random punctuation, but then I thought it would look idiotic).

Another problem is that people seem to assume Dumbledore is her friend, or that he has to try to make her like him. If you're trying to make friends, of course calling people by a name they don't like is a bad idea. He's not.

 

...I think this conversation may have gone a bit overboard...

 

Indeed. If in the DLP awards we had a "Lamest Debate of the Year" award, this would be a definite contender.

 

​

Srsly guys. WTF.

 

QFCPT
Fillerfillerfiller

 

Holy Fuck, I did not expect to see 2 pages of argument over one comment about something that is really a very minor detail in canon.

How many times is this even brought up in the books, with Dumbledore? Maybe once or twice. I don't even remember if she even asked Dumbledore to call her Tonks, or if that was just fanon.

 

Welcome to DLP.

 

I don't know if it has been discussed within this thread, or outside of it, but I think a new law should be added: the words great, good, and Dumbledore, or any extension thereof, shall no longer be used within the same sentence.

I can't explain to you just how much it pains me to see "...but (he says) it's for the greater good!" no matter if it's promoting Dumbledore's outlook, or ripping it to shreds.

For fucks sake people, it's not that difficult.

 

Agreed to the above. In light of DH, "for the greater good" was Grindelwald's saying, and Dumbledore wouldn't be caught dead saying it, especially as he still feels guilty for coming up with it.

My own suggestions:

Potter Law ##

There are no higher powers in the Harry Potter universe. No angles, no demons, no gods, no aliens, and certainly no Fate and Father Time playing chess and occasionally sending dead heroes back in time to go through their lives again such that he can be hooked up with the author's favourite 'ship (with an 11-year-old, no less).

Exception: Shezza did it well.

Potter Law ##

There are always exceptions.

Potter Law ##

If it exists, there is fan fiction of it.

 

Word, There are ALWAYS exceptions.

 

Clarification: Not on Potter Law.

 

Exception to clarification: Except for this.

 

Clarification on exception to clarification: Fuck you.

 

Amen....and for the atheist/agnostic/non-believers: Damn Straight!