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WIP Alexandra Quick and the Thorn Circle by Inverarity - K+

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by ray243, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Kerrus

    Kerrus DA Member

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    What you just said...
     
  2. ray243

    ray243 Seventh Year

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    However, a infuriating character to read is relative to the reader. Moreover, trying to say that a certain teenager isn't relatable is weird considering the fact that Alexandra acts like alot of teenagers of her age. Maybe she will mature, maybe she won't, but to me that is what makes me willingly to follow the story despite her large number of flaws.

    The desire to find out how much she has mature as she grows up.

    Maybe this forum defination of relatable is to see young characters acting like adults perhaps, or teenagers who are more mature than their age.

    What about angsty characters? Given the fact that people who are 11 or 12 don't really experienced the death of a loved, I would say a number of characters has a greater reason to be angst.

    I really find it weird that most members down here would bash a story based on the settings, such as a US magicial world, or a OC-centric story simply because they do not feature Harry Potter. That is the reason I find the reviews to be so funny, especially when people are making reflex judgement( like calling the US world to be perfect or saying Alexandra is a mary-sue).

    I don't know, it really seems like this site is rather narrow minded to me or maybe we have a fundemental difference between what is fun to read.
     
  3. Zombie

    Zombie Black Philip Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Thats pretty standard right there actually.
    Most often its who you see first. Standard movie ploy, and I both hate and like it. Although this story as a whole I didn't like it cause of what of seemed to me from the summary, a SI story.

    Also I hate those books that have their own little side books following alternative POVs, like the books about Bean in the Enderverse? I fucking hate that.
     
  4. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    A lot of teenagers are idiots and spiteful, stubborn-for-no-reason and proud beyond reason. So yes, she acts just like everyone else her age.
     
  5. ray243

    ray243 Seventh Year

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    You need a reason to be stubborn?
     
  6. Zombie

    Zombie Black Philip Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Obviously you don't.
     
  7. pdo91

    pdo91 Professor DLP Supporter

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    I think you're missing the point about the angst. Yes, we understand that 11 year olds have the right to be angsty. But we don't want to read about whiny 11 year olds, we want to read about 11 year olds who stop whining and do something interesting. In fact, just cut out the 11 years old and angst.

    We want to read something interesting.

    And ray, we at DLP don't make snap judgments. If a fic is set in America, it's generally a red flag of faggotry, but it's just a warning sign. If a fic sounds stupid, we'll say something along the lines of, "Wow, that sounds so stupid my dog could piss the summary into the snow. Plus, it's set in America! This is gonna suck."

    Now, if we say something final with little room for interpretation like:

    That means that the story has been read and deemed lacking. Silens gave you a long, detailed, neutral list of the positive and negative aspects of this story that even you can't deny. Just because this fic is set in America, and just because this fic has angsty 11 year olds, doesn't mean it's a bad fic.

    That does not change the fact that this fic, with angsty American 11 year olds, fails.

    Clarification: Because you were dancing around the subject earlier, when I say this fic "fails", I mean that it's generic, contrived, annoying, not entertaining, and it has a minimal connection (read: a poached magic system) to Harry Potter, which is what this forum is all about. It doesn't matter that you think that the characters are realistic, and it doesn't matter if the characters are realistic: what does matter is that this story is sub-par in nearly all categories necessary for a good fic.

    And on the topic of whether or not the Alexandra can be related to/is realistic: Yes, she acts exactly like someone her age would. When we read fanfiction, it's to read about things that we don't experience every day. That's what we have "real life" for, and it's why stories aren't "real life in words". So reading about a character that acts exactly as we expect her to become tiresome extremely quickly. Just because she can use magic doesn't mean that everything else isn't completely vanilla, and doesn't mean the story becomes engaging. And she doesn't even have to be mature or bizarre or have MPD - she just has to be different than every other person her age.

    Dark Lord Potter is a place for thought-provoking, convoluted, brutal, uncommon, intriguing, and intense fanfiction. No matter how much you try to rationalize what we say away, the fic is still none of these things. No matter how many times you nit-pick at the diction of our posts, this will not change.

    If, however, you have thoughtful and logical reason that promotes this story, it will noted and seriously considered.

    I sincerely doubt you have such a reason.
     
  8. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    What an intriguing hypothesis! You mean, something like a strong focus on stories that feature a more independent and/or dark Harry? No, I think you must be mistaken.

    Oh wait.


    That said, I don't get what you nigs are talking about with whiny-ness and self-angst. The opening line ("Not far from the Interstate ...") made me want to strangle someone slowly, sure; preferably the author; but after I got over that and otherwise in general it's been fairly reasonable. I just finished the second shopping trip and am moderately entertained. Did I catch the wrong story or what? Or does it get worse later on?

    Edit: Also, Angelique sounds hawt, but that might just be the name.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  9. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    Wish my fic got this much interesting discussion.
     
  10. Khazad-Dumb

    Khazad-Dumb Loves the Gay Porn DLP Supporter

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    *coughattentionwhorecough*
     
  11. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    :D All awesome people are attention whores. At least I didn't provide a link.
     
  12. ZeroTheDestroyer

    ZeroTheDestroyer Auror

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    That is because you are lazy, provide a link at the bottom of your sig. What is the point of advertising if there is no link?
     
  13. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    Whoops, I forgot about that. Fixed.
     
  14. Juggler

    Juggler Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    We would talk about your fic if it were this uncool. But we all already know how awesome it is, and if you feel neglected because of that, you can re-read about it in WBA.

    Back on topic now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  15. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Well, alright. So I'm almost done with the story and I dig it. Seriously. I started reading in the morning, then pushed away any assignments so that I could read on. I've spent the entire day reading -- I haven't done that in a very long time.

    The story is written very well. The plot is engaging, and Alexandra Quick ... perhaps it's got to do with different reading perspectives. Maybe you look at it a bit more from the outside than I do. Generally, since she doesn't think of herself as unlikeable, I wouldn't think of her as unlikeable, if that makes sense.

    But even beyond that; I love her, really. There's just something about watching someone running their head against a wall and see the wall crumble. She's so utterly and radically consequent in her actions, it's fantastic. I've always admired that, so reading about it is very compelling. It's the thought that anyone has only as much authority over you as you allow them to have, brought to it's logical end.

    The consequences to her actions aren't missing; but the author manages to keep the balance there -- the story would fail spectacularly the very moment Alex would be shown as beaten down, caving in, adapted. But so far it works; her counterpart is the Dean (and in a broader sense, the Wizarding World which the Dean represents) and you have the old thing about the unstoppable force and the immovable object. Watching both clash is awesome.


    In a way, this is how I sometimes wished Harry would have been, for example in OotP with Umbridge. Nothing annoys me more than seeing things done halfway, in a wishi washi fashion. Either you do it completely, or not at all: Harry confronts Umbridge at first, but later caves and backs down as McGonagall demands. Alex sets her mind to something and sees it through, to whatever end.

    It's fascinating. I haven't been gripped like this by a story in months.

    4.5/5
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  16. coleam

    coleam Death Eater

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    I'm gonna have to agree with Sesc on this one (for the most part). It's definitely engaging, and though Alexandra can be horribly infuriating at times, there are still qualities about her that make her a likeable character. She may be stubborn, bitchy, and petty, but she's persistant (which I like in a character) and her stubborness is somewhat of an offshoot of that. The bitchiness so far seems only apply to people who deserve it (I'm only ten chapters in, so correct me if that changes), and pettiness is to be expected from an eleven year old. Mostly I admire her spirit (no matter how cliched that sounds). She never gives up and won't let anyone tell her what to do. I also, like pretty much everyone else, enjoy the detail that the author put into the American magical community. It's very complete and well executed, to the point where it almost seems possible.

    That being said, this story isn't perfect. I think the author laid the "rebellious teenager" on way too thick, especially considering that Alex is still two years away from being a teenager. The way the characters, especially Alex, are written, I keep picturing them as being about 14-15 instead of 11. I also agree with Silens about Dean Grimm - it seems like the author put too much effort into making her horrible, to the point where it starts to seem forced. Making the system biased against Alex alone seems like a contrivance and while I do enjoy her efforts to fight that system, it creates a lot of unncessary conflict and eats up time that could be used to develop the other supporting characters more.

    So while it does have many flaws, I think that its good points go a long way towards making up for them.

    3.5/5
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  17. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Heh, had to give this one a read just because it has such widely fluctuating reviews here. Though I will say flat out that the summary turns me off and I probably wouldn't have checked it out had it not ended up here.

    Holy #$@& it's long. I was expecting 5-6 chapters. This is going to take longer than expected to read through, so I'll edit my post when I either finish it or give up, but for now I'd rate the first 2 chapters (which I read) at 2.5/5.

    It's not really Harry Potter if there is no Harry Potter or anyone from Harry Potter. If nothing about Harry is going to crop up and make this interesting then the characters and storyline that are present instead need to be of exceptional quality to get me into it, and to be honest it's just not quite there.

    If the main character was Harry and some weird as hell events had transpired to but him in her shoes and give him her personality and have him play out her story then I could deal with that because we all know that sooner or later Voldemort and/or Dumbledore is gonna show up, screw with things, and get us on track to a story with some meaningful action. Then again I'm not sure how much I'd like reading about Harry in America, so maybe not.

    That said, well, that's not what the author was trying to do here. I think the author wanted to do what they did -- write a story set in the Harry Potter universe that has absolutely nothing to do with Harry Potter, his life, his story, or his friends. So I can't fault them too much for doing what they set out to do. Doesn't mean the story belongs here.

    It is better than I expected though. My 2.5 could round either up or down depending how things go.

    EDIT: Read half the story now. The main character is not likable or enjoyable to read. This is a serious downer for the story as a whole in my opinion, but I won't go into it any more than that since someone else already did a bang up job of that in this thread. I think it was Silens. The main character does improve later in the story though. She never becomes someone I liked reading about, but she at least managed to stop showcasing a few of the things I hated early on and became tolerable.

    The writing in this story is good. The world crafted for American Wizardry is one of the best I have ever read. The dialogue is well written. Some of the characters and their personalities seem forced, but it's not that bad.

    Review Summary
    : Story is surprisingly well written and crafted, but the main character is a complete chore to read, relate to, like, or get into, especially at first. Not to mention that this is a Harry Potter story without any Harry Potter. I did keep reading though, and to me that alone is worth an extra point since I expected to give up instead of deciding to finish the story. Of the very few HP stories I've read where all HP characters were ignored, this is the best.

    The story is exactly what the author set out to write, and they wrote it pretty well, so I can't fault them. I'm going to round up to a 3/5 from my earlier rating. I also have to say that it's not the kind of story that DLP folks would seek out as a general rule though, so be aware of that. Putting it in "almost recommended fanfiction" would probably have been what I would have done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  18. famine224

    famine224 Muggle

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    Well, The call -is- coming from upstairs...
    I...hrmmm...like Cheddar, I had to give the story a try.
    Let me start off by saying that no matter how much one tries, they will never build up a tolerance to bad literature. Ever. I've used enough bottles of brain bleach to know that.
    Now, that being said, this isn't bad per say, but it certainly isn't good, let alone great. And the main complaint? I enjoy when a story has either well thought out, in depth, and has logical explanations for magic, magical culture, and the basis of ethics and morality in the magical world (one reason for my love of Partially Kissed Hero), or lots of humor(what you get from Make a Wish). Alexandria Quick contained part of the first, but not much, and almost none of the second.
    I'm in no way saying that these elements are the most important, but I enjoy being forced to think. Or laugh. Neither happened.
    Sorry, but 2.5/5
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  19. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    I'm always ... wary of the 'this doesn't belong here'-remark, Cheddar. Put the story up For Review, leave a long comment alongside with it, so that everyone knows what they have to expect, and then let the ratings do the rest. If it makes it into Library or Bin, great; if not, then not.

    From the first post it was obvious that this was a story with only OC's in it, so I see no reason why this story should not be here. There's always the off chance that someone might like it and is grateful, after all (for example, I'd never have read it if it hadn't been here); or that it turns out surprisingly good and makes the Library like that other OC story. It'd be a pity if a potentially good fic got ignored, just because 'it's just not typically DLP'.



    Also, uh -- not that I usually care, but this I had to comment.

    Not much? o_O

    It has just about the most original, in-depth world, magic and culture I've seen in ages, and well, it has to have that too, considering the author had to create a new school in a new country, doesn't it? It's full of details and ideas and little and big things. Whatever else you can criticize, you can't fault the work the author invested into making magical America come to live.

    Added to that, ethics and morality play a huge role -- take for example the ongoing golem vs. House Elf debate, or the different ethics from the different factions (e.g. Old colonials, New colonials); or the underlying main theme of the story: the question of who is in the right, the Confederation or the Thorn Circle. And all of those conflicts merge in the character of Alex.


    If that is your main complaint and not enough depth for you, I admire your standard and you probably should be reading Tolstoy and not FF. (And I won't go into the magic - logic debate again, since there are enough threads on that already >_>)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  20. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Fair enough, and you're right. I didn't mean to say outright that it doesn't belong on this site, and I'll edit my post to better reflect my thoughts. What I meant was more that it's not the sort of thing I would really recommend here if only because of the audience and the general reaction to stories without Harry in them. Just like I haven't recommended "Shifts" by Fernwithy, which stars Remus Lupin, despite the fact that I somewhat enjoyed reading it. If I had decided to recommend this story (or Shifts) I'd have stuck it over in the almost recommended fanfiction thread, but that doesn't make it wrong for this to be here instead.

    It also doesn't mean that some folks on DLP don't like it. Hell, I like it, rated it high enough for the bin, and am still reading it (up to chapter 23 now), which says a lot considering the amount of stories I normally give up on.

    It really does get better and better. I was particularly happy to finally see some references to the Dark Lord (though they didn't use the name Voldemort), and to be given a time frame for when things are going on compared to Harry Potter canon.

    EDIT: Just finished the story. It's actually quite engaging overall despite the things I and others have mentioned we weren't fond of. Worth giving a try if you can stomach the lack of canon characters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009