So I was reading through a couple very creative stories, and I got to wondering if being too ambitious and creative is a (the) true killer of potentially great fics. Now, I’m not saying that any story mentioned here has or will fall victim to this, but take the following for examples (these are but a few):

-Shades of Gray by Shadow Rebirth
-In the Clockface, Weighted and Weary by nuhuh
-Harry Potter and the Wastelands of Time by joe6991
-The Redemption of the Black Sisters by jon3776
-Harry Potter and the Elemental’s Power by raul-1331

In my opinion, these are some very well written works and demonstrate a creative genius that not many authors possess. Each introduces something that may or may not have been done before in a new light and proceeds to expand upon it to a promising extent. Shades of Gray’s Mage!Harry takes the main character beyond being something different in the same society and creates a world of magical beings and magiks thought lost. In the Clockface, Weighted and Weary begins to brush upon the political workings of the Ministry during a time not often seen. The Redemption of the Black Sisters is perhaps the most ambitious story I have ever read and I honestly love it: Lordship, de-aging, second chances, independence-but-not-independence, political intrigue, mystery, and powers unknown.

And so on and so forth.

Great stories, but do they have their own undoing written within them. Do the authors simply try to do too much (or in the case of some, Faaaaaaar too much)?

What do you all think?

 

Considering what Joe pulled off with his Hero trilogy, I think you can safely scratch Wastelands from the list.

 

Point taken. Again, I'm not saying these have. I'm just using these as examples of very ambitious fics.

 

Yes. Or in expanded terms, fuck yes. And if anything, your liit st falls short of all the fics that could (and should) be on that list. And as an author of one of the more twisted fics currently sitting in WbA, I can tell you that it's one of the nastiest traps an author can fall into (although I'd also tell you that Wastelands of Time doesn't really belong on that list, considering how tightly focused Joe's kept the plot).

Let me get this out of the way first: that it is a good thing for fics to have subplots and complex maneuvering. Frankly, there wasn't enough of that in the last two books that Rowling wrote, and I found its absence exceptionally disappointing. And let's face it, as an author, you usually despise writing filler. It feels like a chore, slowing the story and shortening your patience.

Often times, it seems like the perfect solution to the 'filler problem' comes with subplots, but here is the critical shortfall: unless a fic is plotted and there is a planned resolution to the subplot that is tied to the main plot, the subplot is filler. Miranda Flairgold's 'A Second Chance At Life' is the biggest example of this, followed right by Bexis' 'Harry Potter and the Fifth Element', but most fics tend to fall prey. The biggest (and to me, one of the most infuriating) was the quasi-religious subplot introduced in the R-Series by Regulus, which had so much fucking potential, but eventually was never concluded. And as a reader, that really ticked me off.

Frankly, I'd rather the story be focused and incredibly well told than incredibly detailed and never concluded.

And btw, is Nuhuh even still writing much these days? Haven't seen him.

 

Wastelands of Time is on my small (example) list simply because it takes a stab at a pre-established concept and then fires off like a rocket towards the edge of the fucking universe. The potential for what can now happen in Atlantis is practically limitless. But yes, the story has remained thankfully very focused.

Subplots are a necessary part of fanfiction since, even if we like reading what’s going to happen next, a brief pause in a story to explore something else is a nice little break. By the way, I still cry when I see the R-Series mentioned anywhere…so much potential…

Is it more poor planning on the part of the author, or do all the unresolved plot bunnies simply congregate into a colossal clusterfuck?

 

Honestly, I think it's both. Most fanfic authors don't know how they want their stories to end, and haven't mapped out what they actually want to happen, and in complex stories, such forethought is absolutely crucial. And really, it's an involved process, particularly when your story's over 100,000 words and it's only the halfway point, and you've got at least six different subplots (all relevant to the main plot) going on.

And the R-Series does not make me cry - it makes me RAGE.

 

It's likely a combination of factors. Poor planning is one possibility, which leads to chaos (Miranda Flairgold's stories, where something new is invented every chapter, are an example), but over-planning and not allowing enough flexibility can be equally bad; Full Pensieve's magnum opus is a likely case of this. Not every story that's been plotted in detail works when turned into words and authors have to be able to rework things.

Finally, some just tackle stories too ambitious for their level of skill or time available to write. I would bet that the demands of real life have destroyed more stories than anything.

 

Wastelands is close to 200,000 words and barely at the halfway point.

Fucking ambition...

 

Dear God man! Your avatar takes on a whole new meaning when you say that...

To the rest of you, when do you know that a story is starting to outgrow its original plan? Personally, I'd guess when you have more unresolved plots/subplots than you have chapters.

 

In my opinion, it would be nice if the author has a group of proof-headers to help him in steering the direction of the story.

People who can point out to the author what is the most likely aftermath based on a single event.

 

This is why the Skitterleap was so intensely mapped out.

OH HAI IS THAT SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION ?

 

I think it really depends on how you plan your stories. Many authors simply plot the events in sequence, without accounting for the logical links between each individual events.

So what if you plot your story by saying A will occur first, followed by B, C and D if there are no logical links between A and B?

It would be better if you simply plan your story based on what event is most likely to occur based on event number 1 and move on from there. The only thing you need to worry about is trying to find the right place to end the story you wish to tell.

 

I know of no author of note who uses the strawman technique you describe first or the "better" technique you describe next.

As Eisenhower stated, "Plans are nothing, planning is everything." A good story (not a soap opera) holds together logically, has well conceived story arcs, and pays attention to things like dramatic tension, development of characters, and foreshadowing. This can't be done blind, but rather requires planning. Plans can and should change as one writes, but one needs a basic framework to work off of.

 

Yeah, I agree with this, but it really turns into an argument between organic and planned plotting. I've always thought organic writing would turn out better in the long run, but its damn hard when you get ideas for things that could happen, and then find yourself trying to plot a way to get there. It's hard. Especially when you have multiple scenes like that, and you find yourself bending over backwards trying to string them all together. I had this problem with the last original fiction I was working on, and eventually put it on the back burner to simmer for a while.

 

That's more or less what I'd have answered.

In fact some authors are never satisfied with a plot they can reasonably write, and always aim for something completely unreasonable. It's always the most ambitious (sometimes ludicrously so) ideas they get excited about. Then as the story progresses they realise they don't have the patience, skill, or time to write it all out.

Even when they decide to plot out their stories in their entirety (usually after a disastrous first experience), the same old scenario repeats itself -- first because they never respect the plan, since that would be too boring and they get much better ideas in the meantime, second because their plots always sound much clearer, shorter, and easier to write in their head than they actually are.

Some do have the skill to carry it out though.

Ah well. Lucky bastards.

 

This seems to work very well IMO, when you do this, you are bouncing ideas off of people and can react accordingly, I know that this is what JBern does, and he's finished all of his stories thus far.

 

It really depends on how much you want your ending to stay the same in my opinion.

Well, it really depends on how much you want to stick to your original plan when writing a story.

 

Yes, having beta readers can make all the difference. The only problem is when people realize that they won't be able to write what they originally planned out. I worked as a beta for a writer on ff.net for a few months, and the story was awesome...until he decided on what direction he wanted hes fic to take at that point. I suggested that maybe its too much and that he won't be able to write it the way he wants.

He then left the fanfic community and I haven't heard from him in a year.

 

Clearly you were too hard on him. :awesome

 

Oi! I was just trying to give my honest opinion. When he told me that he wanted to crossover his already good story with some not-so-great ideas (read: complete fail), I recommended that he stick to what he was doing.