Yes, the love protection was powerful, but Lily, for all her skill, was not Voldemort. Dude made a new body, which is pretty much unparalleled by any other magic in canon, as we're discussing in the tactics thread. Not only did he do that, he found the magical failsafe in Lily's plan while doing it, just like he did for their Fidelus. However irrational he was, beating him on any magical ground was simply out of the question.

He basically said "Oops forgot love magic, oh well, there are ways to get around that." Nevermind that it stopped an AK, he was giving himself the ability to do that at 16.

 

Then what is reason for HP's being at Privet Drive with its "blood wards" if the only wizard (and the only being in any form) who is repelled by them is able to completely circumvent the love protection if he only thinks about it ? Did the wards repelled in canon someone/something else ? (owl mail)

 

The canon wards, IIRC, protected against intent to harm as well, which was all Voldemort had.

 

Right, it's the most powerful magic (maybe). But just because it's powerful it doesn't mean that it's an all-purpose fix-it. It's not going to make his dinner for him or do his homework. It's powerful but very specific.

 

It doesn't seem like it can be the simple fact that the Horcrux is a physical vessel which stops the protection from working. In CoS, Harry would have come into direct (metaphysical) contact with the soul fragment in the diary. For him to have seen Riddle's memory of framing Hagrid, either Harry would have had to have somehow entered into the horcrux with Riddle (at least in part), or Riddle would have had to send a bit of his own essence into Harry. Either option seems like it should have invoked the protection.

 

It cannot even banish part of Voldemort's (wizard against whom that protection was made) soul in HP's scar that was made during protection. In my opinion protection of Lily's love seems like product of Dumbledore's imagination if it was not canon.

 

Yeah, we know the love protection is genuine and not just an ad hoc explanation by Dumbledore, because Harry recreates said protection in DH for the entire wizarding world (which was far too easy, IMO).

 

But, as earlier said, did it not expire at HP's 17th birthday ?
Or was it only about those wards around Dursleys ?

 

There seems to be two elements to it.

1. A Charm on Harry (called by Dumbledore the Bond of Blood charm) which keeps Lily's sacrificial protection alive, so long as Harry "recharges" it by living with Petunia every year. This is what Voldemort bypassed in GoF.

2. Protections on the Dursley household, preventing not just Voldemort but Death Eaters too out of the house (the Death Eaters have to wait for them to fall before attacking). These may or may not by linked also to the blood protection, or maybe some of them are and some of them aren't. Certainly they fail when Harry turns 17/leaves Privet Drive for the last time. What Voldemort did in GoF apparently did not negate these (otherwise he surely would have attacked sooner).

 

So it is only fanon invention that wards around Privet Drive will fall when Harry/Petunia wiil no longer consider it as his/Harry's home ?

And why didn't protection protected HP from Voldemort's soul at Halloween 1981 ? ( it was during its duration, it was part of Voldemort that attacked etc.)

 

No, that's canon. It's what I meant by "leaves Privet Drive for the last time.".

Why should it?

Possible Explanation 1: To protect is to prevent harm. The soul fragment was not causing harm. Thus it did not need to be protected against (the soul fragment would cause pain in the future, but how was the magical protection meant to "know" that?).

Possible Explanation 2: If you think about it, it was the protection itself that put the soul fragment in Harry. Voldemort didn't intend to do it. The soul fragment simply "fell off" him as a result of the rebounded killing curse and latched onto Harry in the chaos of the aftermath. Its the protection's fault that Harry had it in the first place.

Possible Explanation 3: Until Dumbledore cast the Bond of Blood charm to generate the protection, it was a one time thing, and performed its function when it defended against Voldemort's Killing Curse.

Possible Explanation 4: The soul fragment was so intrinsically part of Harry that it could not be attacked as an independent entity.

Or possibly even a combination of the above 4, or possibly none of the above.

 

I agree: it was a conscious decision on Voldemort's part to say/not say th the incantation. Voldemort hates Harry with a passion; he's not going to give him an easy, undramatic way out. Surprising Harry with a nonverbal AK would've made it too simple for Voldemort; obviously, we know he's really into dramatics. He definitely wants to make Harry suffer, and making sure Harry knows he's about to die, is a way to do that.

Had Voldemort not taken Harry's blood in GoF, Harry would've had to die. (Why was that exactly? I mean, I remember Dumbledore's triumphant look, but was that part of it ever explained beyond Lily's protection flowing through Voldemort's veins?) As it was, Harry's almost-sacrifice allowed the horcrux portion of his soul to be killed.

I think the theory was there was so much uncontrolled magic in the room that night, Voldemort's ready seventh piece of soul was torn out of his body (it was probably already dislodged from his master soul piece). From there, it latched on to the strongest living thing: Harry.

Definitely not. Voldemort didn't have a body of his own for thirteen years after trying to kill Harry. Obviously, he was unable to create horcruxes out of James and Lily's remains on Halloween. After that, I imagine Voldemort would've never even considered it because a) it would've reminded him of his failure to kill Harry and b) it would be saying James and Lily were up to par with both the founders and Voldemort himself.

I'm probably wrong, but I think the protection is more against physical things. Physical as in not supernatural like the soul. The protection did its job against skin, proximity, emotions, and thoughts. Yes, emotions and thoughts are mental, but they are located in the brain, which is completely different from something like the soul. -shrugs- That's my idea, anyway.

Magic is all about intentions, and Riddle wasn't trying to harm Harry then. Yes, Riddle meant to in the future, but at the time, he was only showing Harry a memory. He wasn't in danger.

Like I said before, I think the protection goes along with things directly corresponding to the body and not something like a soul. Or perhaps, it needed to be charged again... It had just kept Harry was being killed by Voldemort's AK, certainly it wasn't in top form just then. And after that, the soul piece had already wrapped itself around Harry's soul... allowing him to speak Parseltongue.

EDIT: I agree with the four explanations Taure just posted.

 

But that would mean that Harry should have died, seeing as bond of blood was activated when Petunia took Harry and he did not have any special protection because surely many people sacrificed themselves and their family members/friends still died from AK, so he should not have special protection JUST from Lily's sacrifice.


From HP Lexicon

While you can still call home the place where your mother's blood dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as you can still call it home, whilst you are there he cannot hurt you.

Why then DE didn't attack Privet Drive ? It is somewhere stated that wards protect Harry from them ?

Thanks for replies in this thread.

 

The reason Harry survived was because Lily was given a choice; she didn't have to die. So her sacrifice was truly a sacrifice; it's different from someone jumping in front of an AK.

Other than that, I don't understand what you're asking.

I would think Dumbledore would've set up wards that would keep those with ill intent away from Privet Drive. Obviously, these wards were tied to the ones based off of Lily's love/Harry's blood as they fell when he hit seventeen. We can surmise from the OOTP that the wards aren't fool-proof as the dementors were able to get to Harry and Dudley. Again, it's all about intentions.

 

The Lexicon just supports the theory that the Soul Frag didn't mean any harm to Harry. Also, the Soul Frag can't 'touch' Harry either.

Also, the Protection blocks 'Intent to Harm.' In other words, DEs couldn't go near Privet Drive because they intended to harm Harry. If they didn't want to hurt him, they could safely go in/near him.

 

So Voldemort, wizard that was seen as symbol of violently anti-Muggleborn movement really intended for Lily Potter after he killed her pureblood husband just to walk unscathed away ? Why would he be suddenly in a merciful mood ? ( And I bet he does not give a damn about Snape and his possible plea). He even crucioes his damn followers and they are more useful to him than LP.

I was asking about a real reason why HP survived their first confrontation when Bond of Blood was not yet activated and act of sacrifice itself is not enough. (from HP lexicon)

---------- Post automerged at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Yes, I could see it. Part of soul of DARK LORD does not mean any harm to his mortal enemy. These parts could possess people, drive them to madness etc.
(If your Soul Frag is his Scarcrux, if you did not mean that than I apologize)

Where is it in canon that wards block those who are intending to harm HP and not only Voldemort ?

 

Snape had brought him the information that would forever secure Voldemort's place as the wizarding world's leader. Voldemort is a cruel, ruthless leader, but he does reward his followers. Think about it: if it was all pain and death, why would anyone join? Snape told Voldemort the prophecy and 'agreed to join the Order to spy for Voldemort'. (The latter bit might be wrong, but that's not really the point.) Snape wanted Lily for himself and so he asked Voldemort for her... He's a Slytherin so it's perfectly believable Snape argued Lily's worth and her talents quite well - this instead of singing his love for the wife of his 'biggest enemy.

Anyway, why wouldn't Voldemort let Lily live? Yes, she defied Voldemort multiple times, but Voldemort was after Harry: He planned to make to make a horcrux after he killed Harry; his downfall was going to come from Harry. To Voldemort, Lily Potter was just an insolent mudblood girl who dared to defy his power, refused to join his cause, and gave birth to the 'Chosen One'. (Okay, that's putting it lightly, but the fact remains that Voldemort was willing to give Lily to Snape.)

EDIT:

As it's only a fragment of Voldemort's soul, Harry's whole, pure soul could easily overpower it; as it did. The piece of soul didn't possess Harry, couldn't possess Harry. Harry saw Voldemort's (and Nagini's) thoughts, and felt his emotions, but those took place because of Voldemort's master soul. The horcrux itself didn't have emotions that affected Harry. We all saw how Harry was when he was eleven; had he truly been affected by the soul piece within him, he wouldn't have been able to blend in as he did or choose Gryffindor. Not to mention, Harry was able to hold Gryffindor's sword, and was liked by Fawkes.

 

Page 835, book 5. Dumbledore pretty much states that he hid Harry at Privet Drive to protect him from Voldemort supporters and Voldemort himself, should he ever return. Unless Dumbledore added a ton of extra protections, the only thing keeping Harry safe was the Blood Protection that Dumbledore augmented.

And yes, the soul frag was harmless. Remember, the Scar is only 1/2 of a real horcrux. It never went through the whole procedure to become a full self-thinking Horcrux. The soul scar became a Horcrux on ACCIDENT. Even it's meta-physical representation in DH was a deformed but harmless baby. In other words, it's like a Benign Cancer compared to a Maligant(Is this the right word?) Cancer.

 

There had to have been more protections added to Privet Drive than that. What's to stop Voldemort or Bellatrix or Lucius from using some form of locator spell? And Malfoy had ties with the Ministry. Surely, he could've manipulated his way to finding out where the magical aura of Harry Potter is located. After all, the Ministry was able to tell when Harry performed magic and knew where to send him letters. Same deal with the Hogwarts situations: Malfoy was on the school board. Somewhere along the way, Harry's location could've been easily found out.

 

We don't know the extent of the sacrifice protection. It might just be physical harm or it could include location or anything that could cause harm to Harry. Heck, the protection might have even cloaked Harry's location from everyone until his living place came out in book 1.