I was curious if anyone has definitive proof of magical fatigue? I am aware that in the Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry stated he felt "Drained and weary" after casting mist at the Dementors. This sparked my curiosity as to whether or not magical fatigue was ever confirmed? Also; is the fatigue due to Magic itself? Or was it due to an outside factor, such as the Dementors?

I am also curious as to if magical fatigue, if it exists, affects a persons Magic itself, or their physical body? If it exhausts the body, that may suggest that magic is NOT just intent, that perhaps it is actually a part of the human body? If magic exhausts a persons physical body, making them feel weary and lethargic, would this suggest that perhaps magic itself is actually formed through the human's body?

Or could the persons magic be similar to the concept of "Chakra" from Naruto, where the magic is channeled mentally, and released physically, meaning a person must use different aspects of themselves to form the magic, although I would assume HP would use more then just mental/physical, as the soul may also impact onto a spells success.

I did a quick search of threads on 'magical fatigue' and came up with nothing, so if a thread already exists on this feel free to direct me to it and lock the topic.

 

There is no mention of magical fatigue anywhere in canon. As for the drained and weary part in PoA, I think it was just the affect of Dementors, since, Harry didn't feel tired after casting the corporeal patronus. Also, nowhere in the books does Harry feel lethargic after casting lots of magic, e.g, in OOTP, during the battle at the ministry, during DH, where Harry casts the Imperius, he doesn't mention that it is difficult to hold the curse or that he is tired.

The idea of magical fatigue mostly stems from the magical core theory that was so popular in the fanfics earlier.

I've no idea about what is naruto, so no comments about that.

 

Hrm, the suggestion one can't get magical fatigue could also imply that a persons magic is literally limitless couldn't it? Which means every wizard in the world would be capable of Dumbledore level strength, magic wise. It would, of course, be a totally different story experience wise.. Unless ones magic can.. I suppose get more potent? As they cast more spells? Hm, it's rather odd. If a person cannot exhaust their magic, then logically their access to it, and the amount of it, SHOULD be limitless. Any thoughts on that?

 

Magical core theory and any other theory that says anything about "power" or "size" of channeled magic is neither confirmed nor contradicted by canon. And while I whole-heartedly disagree with Taure's theory that being a wizard is a boolean value, or a tristate at best, both Dumbledore and Riddle were called prodigies (in terms of skill), and you can see how they look compared to most lazy wizards who don't even bother to learn a shielding charm.

 

Anyone can get virtually unlimited electricity from a power point. Most people just plug in their appliances. Voldemort and Dumbledore and their ilk, however, are electrical engineers.

Which is as good a metaphor as I can come up with off the top of my head.

 

Anyone can bang idiotically at a piano with limitless potential. It doesn't make everyone a Mozart.

Also, as for magical fatigue, no. The only thing that fatigues is the wizard.

 

Concentrating for a long period of time is difficult, so a wizard who's suddenly decided to cast lots of difficult spells in succession might experience fatigue, just like a musician playing at a long concert.

Nothing in canon suggests that magic can run out, however.

 

Of course, Occam's razor suggests that whether or not magic is involved, people tend to feel "Drained and weary" after highly stressful events occur - it's what happens when adrenaline wears off.

I don't believe in magical cores, but I disagree with Taure's thesis as well since, according to it, magic is either on or off, but it ignores the possible existence of a magical equivalent to "amperage," "voltage" and "wattage." Thus, some wizards can be more powerful than others - not by virtue of a bigger core, nor by virtue of a greater skill in wielding it, but by virtue of having access to more magic at any given moment than other wizards. Basically, I think people like Dumbledore or Riddle are the magical equivalent of a fire hose whereas most wizards are little more than garden hoses. And to counter the piano analogy - people can practice twelve hours a day and never play anywhere near as well as a sevant if they just don't have the talent for it - it works both ways.

 

I find myself agreeing with your theory; after all, even in current times, some people are far more gifted at something then others. Bill Gates was an amazing programmer, which is what made him so rich, Stephen Hawkins and Albert Einstein were both amazingly intelligent people. If there is people such as them in contemporary society, it could very easily be the same in magical society, especially seeing as both Voldemort and Dumbledore are literally in a class of their own, with Grindlewald being the only one I'd consider in the same class as them. And the founders of course.

 

Anyone can shoot a gun several times and kill one person. Someone trained with it however, can shoot a gun several times and kill several people. The fact that Dumbledore and Voldemort are more skilled in the ways of magic would allow them to use their spells to a greater effect than, say, Stan Shunpike.

That does not change the fact that everyone would get tired by their foolish wand waving after some time though.

 

I feel magical fatigue is more like the feel one has after a hard math test or working on a complex mental problem while doing physical problem.

( I can hang a door in less than an hour, but it took almost six hours to hang on in a very crooked wall and I was shot.)

 

I understand the point you were trying to make, but to be pedantic: by most accounts Bill Gates was not an amazing programmer. His wealth mostly comes from bringing out and marketing the right products at the right time, and gathering some creative minds around him. He reminds me of Thomas Edison in that way, though I concede that Edison did have some real invention ability himself.

Back to the main topic - there isn't any conclusive evidence for magical fatigue. Yet there has to be some fatigue effect, if only through mental exhaustion and even some physical exhaustion (e.g. the aftereffects of the adrenaline dump and dodging required for dueling).

As far as magical ability goes, I like to think that it's a combination of magical skill (i.e. "dexterity") and magical strength (which would set a limit on how fast you could burn something, or a size limit on your transfigurations, etc.). And I think that skill and strength are both limited by the wizard's inherent ability, yet capable of being honed through study and practice. But that's all mental masturbation, as it is once again unsupported by canon. Ah well.

 

I disagree with you on the Bill Gates part. He became the co-owner of Microsoft only after many years of programming and writing or rewriting codes. Have a look at his Wiki page, he was very skilled in regards to programming, having focused on it entirely for most of his life after school.

Magic.. Hm, I think everyone has the.. I suppose.. Access to be the next Dumbledore/Voldemort, based on ACCESS to magic. But almost nobody has the required amount of TALENT to do it... While you can train yourself to improve, both Dumbledore and Voldemort were special in that they could raise the normal boundaries restricting people. As an example, whereas the vast majority of humans would have an IQ of say, 100-120, Voldemort and Dumbledore's IQ would be 150-170. A massive increase, and so incredibly rare it would only be seen once or twice a generation, even with a large population.

Now alter IQ to Magic Ability, or MA. A Muggle would have none or, in some cases a small amount. It could be possible that having a small amount could even cause a normal human to be genetically superior, such as Hawkins or Einstein, but this isn't really part of the arguement, just something to ponder. Squibs always struck me as just a muggle, with a magical parent.. Is there any mention of a Squib with two muggles as their parent? If not, then Squibs would also have almost no MA.

Magical children would have perhaps 20-30 MA. As they grow older it increases, possibly with small growth spurts. At adulthood one would have 100-120, the normal amount. With further training, a normal magical person could push that perhaps a bit higher but not much. The we have Dumbledores, or Voldemorts, who push it that much higher.

Again, this is all speculation, but feel free to comment on it.

 

I think that in cannon it comes down to sheer ability with a wand, along with the ability to focus intently on performing magic (intelligence). Both Voldemort and Dumbledore were vastly more intelligent than any other wizard in cannon, and correspondingly were better at magic. Discussion of a 'power-level' like system is fail, and reminds me of Dragonball Z.

What annoys me in relation to this is how fannon authors often have Harry cast five spells and then collapse out of exhaustion. If I read the words 'Harry, your magical core is exhausted' in a fic I sigh and skip the paragraph (or chapter), as I am almost certain I have never seen those words followed by anything remotely interesting.

tl;dr: Magic is relient almost solely on intelligence in cannon. Is there ever a mention of a stupid wizard with vast magical ability? No.

 

I didn't mean it to come across as a power level system, as stated it was more like the IQ system. A person is naturally more talented at certain things then others, and then we have the prodigy's who are so far ahead of everyone else it's absolutely insane.

 

Wizards of the Potterverse always struck me as the scholarly type. In the sense that casting spells over and over again would not make them more powerful. Instead their skill increases with the amount of knowledge of magical theory they control and their ability to apply it to different situations. Like some people wouldn't know how a microwave works even faintly, some have a vague idea and very few can build one from spare parts in their garage. it all comes down to knowledge. Most wizards are likely to have specialized in only a handful of spells, like obliviators, while Dumbledore and Voldemort have set out to learn everything they could and have dedicated themselves to a quest of knowledge that took most of their lives.

 

^ This. Well said.

 

I agree entirely in your comparison between Dumbledore and muggle geniuses, but I think that it leads to the exact opposite conclusion.

Einstein et al. did not have some independent "genius value" that made them great. They were great because of the sum total of who they were, their entire character, way of thinking, formed by their experiences and genetics.

So too, I would say, with wizards. They don't have some pre-determined value that determines how great they are. Rather, that some can use magic better than others is exactly like the Muggle case: the sum total of who they are.

In the case of the piano savant: it is highly unlikely that there is a single gene which independently codes for piano playing. What we call a savant is actually a convergence of various factors, both genetic and experiential. The idea of a savant is not incompatible with my (and now, it seems, many others') conception of magic. In fact, they go very well together. A savant is someone whose sum total of experiences and genetic factors make them predisposed to be very good at x. There is nothing magical about it.

Similarly, I would suggest that there's nothing magical about the way Dumbledore and Voldemort are so good at magic. There is no need for the "hose pipe theory" when everything it explains can be explained by something far more simple: that humans have varying degrees of talent, and in magical people this will manifest in differences of strength.

 

Or it could be about will. I mean we see Harry defeat more than 100 dementors by 1 spell it it was done with time turner. Harry knew he can do it and did it. So I came to think spell's power as willpower. So more one people determined or stubborn he/she can do it more easily tough if he/she shouldn't lost focus. When he/she uses more spells he tires his mind so can't do more. In the end it is all about mind.

Lets take a look Harry and Voldemort duel in the and of the GoF. Harry uses his will to won priori fight and he doesn't drains or any thing.


A question. Could talents in area of magic came from wizard's personalty?. A.D M.M and James Potter all good in transfiguration. Maybe they have some thing in common and it is makes them good at that particular branch. what do you think?

 

I certainly think will is one aspect, but I think it's an exaggeration to say that will is everything, or even the most important factor. If will was everything, they wouldn't need a school of magic.

I agree mostly with the above suggestion that magic is more scholarly, with the addendum that practice does improve understanding and spell casting. (Similar to how practising a type of problem in mathematics will make you better at tackling that type of problem). This, I think, is fairly clear from canon. For example, Harry's shield charm in GoF and DH are of totally different qualities.