1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Frustrated (in the non-sexual way)

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by belleradh, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. belleradh

    belleradh Murder Princess DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Throne of Decay
    I knew I'd just end up with the peanut gallery if I posted the title as just that one word, but I can't think of anything else to really nail what I'm feeling these days.

    The bottom line: I'm sick of writing male leads. I can relate to a degree, I can fake more, but at the end of the day, some deep-seated part of me just wants to work on a primary character I can fully explore, without needing to ask my roommate for input. No pun intended.

    I don't want to sound like I'm trying to justify a Sue, or SI type character. I've yet to come close to one of those, because frankly I would be a lousy fit in the HP universe. I just want to be able to go 100%. Currently, I don't think I can, mentally, or as a writer. It's a failing on my part.

    This really becomes a problem, when the primary basis of a lot your work happens to be HP-centric. I cheat a bit here and there, and luckily get away with it. I love it when I can, but it's not the same.

    I feel like I'm coming out of the damn closet again. "Hey, mom... I... write male leads! I'm sorry, but it's just how I am!" Ugh. Not really. But it has that kind of awkwardness sometimes. It's even worse, as I don't really relate to men well. 85% of my relationships have been with other women. There isn't a large well of experience there to draw on. Then I try to write not only a male lead, but one who's a preteen /early teenager, another subgroup I can't relate to well. Just wasn't a childish child, I suppose.

    So yeah. Maybe I'll just break some Potter Law and so some OC-centric fics sometime soon. Or Fem!Harry... or not. Hell, I just don't know anymore.
     
  2. Johnny Farrar

    Johnny Farrar High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    521
    Location:
    In front of a Computer.
    Ok.

    You can try this idea: Harry Potter and Fem!Harry Potter story, where you use the third person perspective for Harry's point of view and first person perspective for Fem!Harry Potter.

    This way you get to write a female protagonist as one of the lead characters, also, keep the story Harry Potter and not create a complete OC.

    The other option would be to write Twilight fanfics.
     
  3. belleradh

    belleradh Murder Princess DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Throne of Decay
    Don't even go there. Twilight, I mean.

    I've considered (translated, written about 30k words) a story or two exploring the Fem!Harry thing, or another lead, with Harry playing second string as focus. A first person, with Harry not being the narrator. Just... haven't gotten to the point where I want them out yet.

    But seriously, haven't we read all the Harry Potters out there by now? Nearly half a million fics on FFN alone. It's getting thin, finding something new, or at least something that hasn't been beaten to death, much less trying to write it yourself. How many times have you gotten an reasonable idea for a fic, then searched, and found 30 pages of that premise, already there?

    And I'm really grateful for the few good female lead stories I find. It's just hard to work on a story that focuses on a fem!Harry, where that on its own isn't the "hook". You start putting too many things in the pot. Or you get the same soup you had all week. Who cares if girl!Harry plays out the seven years of books? I know how that plot goes - already read it. I'm even less interested in writing it.

    *mutter* Should start a WH40K/Ranma/HP crackfic where he ends up in the Adepta Sororitas and has to deal with the Geneseed drive of like Marcus from the Thousand Sons in the hopes of overthrowing the Emperor of Man. Or something... just to vent, of course.
     
  4. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,742
    Here's a crazy, crazy idea...

    If you're sick of writing male leads, give Harry Potter fanfiction a break.
     
  5. MattSilver

    MattSilver The Traveller

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    TREEPOCALYPSE2K19.
    Well you don't have to abide by the Potter Law or the writers around here - if you want to write a HP universe story with a different, female, centricity, go nuts. Beyond that, I can't really advise you on anything, being a guy who writes male leads and all.

    That or, you know, do what Tehan suggested above me.

    EDIT: Fuck it - just read what Sesc and Pers said.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  6. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    He, well. Two points: In general, I don't subscribe to the theory that only male writers can write males, and vice versa with female characters. That's part of the greater idea that you don't necessarily have to have been in the situation you're writing about. In fact, I'd say it's the definition of a good writer that he can make up missing experience (with the other sex, with life and death situations, w/e) with imagination, and do so in a believable way.

    Sure, you have to do research (whether that amounts to asking your roommate, or reading shit and looking it up). I had no idea about make-up, and spent ages researching it, just for a paragraph where I wanted to have a realistic description. But that's part of the deal, always. It's what sets you apart from the random cookie-cutter shit at FF.net. That has nothing to do with male characters, you do it all the time for everything you have no clue about.

    And personally, I like the challenge of writing about something I'm no natural expert in. And that, of course, includes girls. (Just so you see that the gender problem can have positive aspects -- it depends on your outlook, as always.)


    That you're sick of writing male leads is something different. And really, the only sensible advice so far in here is Tehan's. Especially when it sounds like you're not sick of writing male leads, but more of HP on a general basis. I have times like that too, when I'm sick of writing HP. That's when I write some original shit, or I'm alternating with my Eragon stuff.

    Forcing yourself is good if you know it's just a minor motivation problem, with a scene or chapter, and you know you really want to write the chapter after that or something. But that's something you have to gauge for yourself.


    And that I don't agree with either -- to answer your question: Not ever. At most, it's like saying there can't be any more new Fantasy, since Tolkien did it once and best, and everything since then is only a repeating of his ideas. There'll always be room for new ideas.


    So yeah, TL;DR: What Tehan said. If you're fed up with HP and feel like you can't go all out, give it a break. Even though it pains me for Snakecharmer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  7. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,022
    Location:
    Where idiots are not legally permitted to vote
    High Score:
    3,994
    I sympathize, belleradh. For me, it's not gender issues so much as the whole "back to school" manchild thing, writing social awkwardness, "get an erection from wallpaper" hormones, and lack of life experience for pretty much anything of substance. In my own life, I vaguely remember the embarrassing certitude of thinking myself the smartest thing around, having never encountered a counterexample in the backwater boonies that I haunted, and ideating sex in "cock meets cunt," skin-mag virginal crudity. I was graduated from an American high school in bumfuck Iowa far enough in ancient history that saying "was graduated" didn't sound flippin' anal retentive.

    My little sister has a kid about to enter college. He's older than the target demographic for the Harry Potter series.

    Any more, my favorite HP fanfiction genre seems to be post-Hogwarts fiction about adults, their relationships, and their issues. I can read pretty much any type of story in this setting (slash included) with any main characters, provided the story is written by an adult about adults who act like them. Among my favorite characters in this genre is the cameo of Harry at the end of respitechristopher's "Albus Potter and the Misspent Youth," just a dad trying to connect with his son, not a tired, mythic superhero.

    It seems to me that once you put the whole Voldemort thing into the history books, you're free to make most anyone your central character in the HP 'verse. Why can't there be a story centering on Pansy Parkinson and her on-again-off-again dalliances with a bisexual Dennis Creevey? For the rest of us, High School is a memory, if even that; why should divisions drawn before any of us had a clue matter in life? Fanfiction is capable of so much more in the hands of a decent author.

    Make your story post-Voldemort and you can explore almost any theme with anyone and still remain semi-canon. Any female character, even an OC, is fair game as subject of the piece and I, for one, would read it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  8. belleradh

    belleradh Murder Princess DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Throne of Decay
    @ Tehan: Very good advice, and don't think I've not thought of it. I just have so many projects up in the air. I do realize my writing frequency is a bit higher than some: Grimm took a month to finish for chrissake, and I had 40+K down on Snakecharmer in a week. Anyway. Good point, it just grates on me that I've been considering it.

    @Sesc: It's not really about the challenge, or the difference in perspective of a male lead, so much as me wanting to more personally relate and identify with my lead. Here's a little secret - I don't like Harry. I personally found people like him (one-dimensional, unmotivated, reactionary) so far outside my desire to deal with, I never learned their name, at his age.

    I also don't mind the challenge, and the research... hehe. I love that part. There are days I just spend hours researching the setting, learning the intricacies of this or that aspect of things.

    Since you like like Snakecharmer, have you actually looked up some of the references in it? Most are real. The castle is, all the Baronies should be, discounting the metro area. That one's fudged of course - historically it existed however, in a different form in that location. Even the inheritance tax I tried to make as exact as I could, rather than just magic up numbers. Waterstones? Real. And right down the street from Apollo West, and across from Nero. You could completely relive that day. So... yeah. I like the research.

    I guess it's more my method that's grating on me? I write like some actors get into their roles. I think about all the things that made them, all the little nitpicky parts of their development and then see how it shaped them, and try to put myself in that place. At the moment, I guess I just need to launder my Harry-suit. God that sounds strange.

    And... yeah, I know. That point about 'running out of stories' was just me being bitchy and flailing around for something else to throw at the proverbial wall.

    @Pers: Yes. I was never a 'child'. Relating to this entry-level mentality strains me to no end. I have to practically kidnap one of my Roommate's little spawn from the east coast just to see how they act. Maybe it's sad I don't recall being like that, but I just don't. Too much family pressure, then having to go from 14-21 ASAP, to the point I just skipped years of it, in favor of accelerated placement tests etc. ad nauseum.

    I'd be more comfortable in a more adult setting, if not for my addiction to logic and reason. Half my stories are background for a point in a future they allow. It's just hard for me to say to a reader "Here is your NOW. The past is irrelevant. Deal with it." Maybe I should. Penance wasn't all that badly received, after all.

    I think I'll release this semi-OC fic I'm toying with. It would be like a HP side story. Kind of a Jungle Book meets Anita Blake (even though I despise that woman) thing. Amusingly, it has a 'strange' Astoria again. I think I like picking on that little girl. I guess it would be a "How another facet of the war went" kind of angle. Haven't seen many of those.

    Or maybe just some original fiction. I have this Supermassive research pool on a book I want to toy with. Caste separated city, where every human who can do anything remotely magical lives, but with the possibility they'll be stolen away from their families to be part of an Upper or Lower caste, depending on ability. How one is used as a scapegoat, cast 'down', and decides to have her revenge, so to speak. Builds an uprising, which is what she was trying to fight when in an upper caste. Realizes she's just playing inside roles that have been set up, just to to isolate and remove insurgent elements, and leaves the city, which people Do Not Do. Travels abroad, builds a different army, and returns to the city at the head of an invasion. Only for it all to turn around, and be one big ruse. She just delivered the best and brightest of the rebel elements that threatened the city to a trap. Then, I send her into space. Anyway.

    Maybe I should work on something that doesn't mention Harry, school, and kids for a bit, rather than get stagnant and bitchy at my own scope of work.
     
  9. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Dún na ngall
    High Score:
    5,792
    Or you could out all your worries aside and update Snakecharmer, the only fic I'm excited about atm.

    :|
     
  10. belleradh

    belleradh Murder Princess DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Throne of Decay
    Don't worry - this isn't a longwinded version of an "I'm abandoning everything" notice. Just me venting. Now that I actually have time to work on things, I am again. Despise holidays.
     
  11. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,022
    Location:
    Where idiots are not legally permitted to vote
    High Score:
    3,994
    Let's not be hasty. Grimm II remains to be written...
     
  12. DarthBill

    DarthBill The Chosen One DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,230
    Location:
    Texas
    As far as your problem relating to children, you could always just write Harry as a very adult like child who has the same problem. He never really got to be a child, himself.

    And, aside from writing an OC-pov, I don't really have a solution for your gender problem. Unless, of course you stop writing HP. In a perfect world, I don't think that men and women would be quite as different as everyone makes them out to be, but socially accepted gender-roles are, well, socially accepted.

    Also, Pers, makes a good point.^
     
  13. Hashasheen

    Hashasheen Half-Blood Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,534
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, if you feel the need to stay in the Harry Potter fandom, then why not write one-shot POV fics? Molly Weasley, Narcissa, Bellatrix, McCongall, are all decent characters to use for such a fic.

    Or you know, use a different fandom. Avatar: Last Airbender could use always use more good fics.... :awesome
     
  14. Anya

    Anya Harley Quinn DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    789
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Arkham City
    If you were to do a fem!Harry or a OC-centered fic, I'd read it. I really enjoy those types of stories.

    You are a good writer. I'm sure whatever you write we will read it.
     
  15. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Dún na ngall
    High Score:
    5,792
    Who..? o_O
     
  16. Hashasheen

    Hashasheen Half-Blood Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,534
    Gender:
    Male
    That Transfiguration Professor and Gryffindor Head of House? Sorry, I was pretty tired when I wrote that.
     
  17. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    One of the Shires
    High Score:
    9,373
    You meant McGonagall then >_>. She's a pretty major character, at least try to remember her name.
     
  18. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    I hadn't then, but I figured they would be. You feel that when reading, because of all the little details that are there. You'd had to have an outstanding imagination to make it all up, otherwise. And yeah, I can totally relate, I do the same. Google Streetview is the best thing ever :)

    On a side note, what I've also noticed, I tend to forget very little of what I look up, so over the time, I've collected an odd factual knowledge. It's mostly entirely useless, but sometimes it works for impressing people with random bits of knowledge, lol.


    Eh, and nothing wrong with a rant!thread. If it helps you to write afterwards, more power to you.
     
  19. belleradh

    belleradh Murder Princess DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Throne of Decay
    Fucking FFN won't let me update, stupid doc-manager spewing its rotting, pus-ridden entrails all over my interface like a putrescent pinata.

    Grar. Ok I feel a little better now.
     
  20. vlad

    vlad Banned ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Georgia, SSR
    High Score:
    2000
    I guess you broke it yesterday. It's still recovering from the massive blitz.