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Book 12 [Warning Massive Spoilers by Douches are now in play]

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Ryuugi Shi, May 17, 2009.

  1. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    Something I forgot to post with my first message, can someone explain what the hell happened to Lea? Was it ever explained better?

    From what I gathered she was given some crazy powerful dagger. Next thing we see is her frozen in Arctis Tor, and now apparently Mab bitch slapped the crazy out of her.

    Are there any inferences that could be drawn that I missed?
     
  2. fuubar

    fuubar Headmaster

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    Eh, you've got it more or less. There are a few details in the books but nothing really concrete.
     
  3. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Anlun: The impression I have is that the dagger Lea acquired via the Red Court was "too powerful" for her in the sense that it bumped her power level up a bit too close to Mab's and it started disrupting the balance of power in Winter. Since I think some measure of the ... essence? of the Fae is related to their power this started corrupting Lea somehow.

    Mab put a stop to it somehow. I thought that it involved Harry's debt somehow, but now that I think about it I might be wrong on that. Probably unrelated.

    I also thought that the Red Court might have done that on purpose. It wasn't too long after that they intruded on Winter's grounds for the war and stuff, or did they do that before?

    Bleh, a lot of it runs together. Those are all my impressions though. Little of it based in 'fact' from the books since we don't have many quotes on the matter. Did everyone else get a similar vibe or were there other ways to interpret?
     
  4. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    I think there was more to it than just raw power. Lea acted practically possessed in book 8 and speaks of "affliction" in Changes. I think the athame was responsible somehow but I suspect it was something more like the Denarian coins.

    It has been speculated that since Cowl&Kumori gave Lea that athame, and since Cowl atleast seemed to work with an outsider in White Night, that perhaps the athame contained somekind of outsider that entered Lea and made her do crazy things and Mab had to freeze Lea to contain her until she could be "exorcised".
     
  5. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Ah, Cowl and Kumori... now that I think about it, you're right. All I remembered was that it happened at the Red Court Costume Party so in my mind the Red Court did it. But yeah, you're right. I think in a later book Harry said that he recognized them from there, yeah?
     
  6. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Yeah, it is in book 7 during the confrontation where Cowl&Kumori want Harry's book about the Erlking. Harry recognizes the two from the party and remarks that they gave the Athame to Lea and Kumori basically confirms it.

    So basically, Cowl the major bad guy gives Lea an Athame, Soon afterwards Lea goes insane and starts acting all possessed. One plus one is often two. :)
     
  7. Sol

    Sol High Inquisitor

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    Jim has said that the athame is a vector for power, and Lea is now the second most powerful Sidhe in Winter, even more so than Maeve it seems. Mab had to assume Lea's responsibilities temporarily as she'd rendered her incapable of fulfilling them, thus her showing up when Harry called Lea in Dead Beat (coincidentally when Cowl and Kumori were doing the Darkhallow...).

    Hmm, I think it will be interesting if Cowl and/or Kumori are the ones who revive Dresden. Could be interesting.
     
  8. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I just realised something that I can't believe I'd missed.

    Thomas is Ebenezar's grandson just as Harry is. Do you think McCoy knows?
     
  9. Bukay

    Bukay Professor DLP Supporter

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    I think McCoy doesn't know it, yet. It was mentioned that Dresden's mother disappeared for some time and noone knew where - we know it was time she lived with Lord Raith.

    Besides, if McCoy knows about Thomas than he's a good actor as he is always hostile, untrustful at best, towards him.
     
  10. w1lliam

    w1lliam Groundskeeper

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    McCoy did know where she was, even met the white king, hence Ortega knowing about the familial bond.
     
  11. Midknight

    Midknight Middy is SPAI! DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    This. Was it Eb or someone else who asked is Thomas was feeding on Harry?
     
  12. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I had always assumed that Eb didn't know about Thomas... but now that it's been pointed out that he might have known Maggie was involved with the White Court...

    Maybe his animosity towards Thomas is sort of a protective reaction -- not allowing himself to get close or even consider thinking about him as a person, because if he does he'd expect he'd get hurt? If that makes any sense? Eh, dunno.

    I don't recall anyone asking if Thomas was feeding on Harry offhand.
     
  13. RedNehi

    RedNehi DA Member

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    In Blood Rites, Lara assumes Thomas was feeding on Harry until she finds out they're brothers. Dunno about anybody else after that, though.
     
  14. Xantam

    Xantam Denarii Host

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    Elaine asked this Broken Chains by LittleChicago. Although I suppose it probably happened in the actual series somewhere as well.
     
  15. Midknight

    Midknight Middy is SPAI! DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Yeah, this.
     
  16. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    I think Elaine at least assumed Harry was being fed upon in WN.
     
  17. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Re-reading. The part where Thomas says "And how does this have anything to do with me?" after hesitating a beat in Changes when Harry tells him about Maggie bothered me the first time and again this time.

    First of all that Thomas, who while different still seems to retain some of his earlier characterization, would act as if he wouldn't help out unless it involved him. Especially as no one else is listening for him to be putting on an act.

    Secondly that Harry doesn't even twitch at the statement or what it implies.

    Anyone else find that odd, or am I missing something?


    On another note -- the knowledge of the Ways. I think this came up somewhere before but I'm not sure where. I think it is said that Maggie's knowledge of the Ways was something that she had a natural talent for and therefore she didn't have a gem. The one she gave Harry was created from her knowledge of the Ways? Not sure. But if the Ways are always changing, is the knowledge in the gem old? Or does it update? She could predict where ways would be, but it seems like Harry just got the knowledge she had when she created that (but if so, then I guess it was luck that he didn't run into any out-dated WAys in Changes).

    And doesn't he seem a little lax in keeping the secret? He's always making a show of touching the gem when he needs to access the knowledge. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to keep it against his skin? Or if not that, then at least try not to let everyone and their Uncle see that when asked about travel through Faerie he touches it?

    Just odd.

    Cheers

    P. S. Oh, and I missed that Mouse is going with Maggie most likely now that Harry is dead. He told Murphy that he probably should when they were sitting in Tilly's office.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  18. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

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    Does seem quite odd, but then again Harry might have been expecting it after what Thomas endured through the Skinwalker. He's back to being White Court predator numero uno and looking out for himself, whilst still caring for Harry just not as... carefree as he was doing before.

    I guess when he hears it's Harry's kid, he's stunned because, well, he spent books ridiculing Harry for not being with a woman in god knows how long, till Lucio anyway. That and I figure neither of them expected to have kids, so Harry's either not realised what Thomas implied in a lax of... his usual logic, or it takes a few seconds for it to kick in by which time Thomas' agreed to help because of it being, well, his niece.

    I think that made sense... I'd go back & re-read the scene for myself but i'm away from my Dresden series for a week so =\.
     
  19. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Margaret didn't 'map out' the Ways in the traditional sense. She traveled them so much she got a sense to their underlying connectedness. That alley beside the Blockbuster connects to the Mystic Swamp which can lead to Paris etc. This 'sense' of the Nevernever is what is in the gem, what was given to Dresden.

    There's been a passage with the Eebs that's been bothering me for a long time..

    Name us to the Circle. The Circle could mean the LorON's but it is also the BC's name for itself. If it is the BC they are referring too not only would this mean the BC's existance is far more known then it should be and that the Red King has some kind of membership in it. After Dresden wiped out the Red Court his murder would have been retaliation of the BC.

    As well they are not of 'the first Maya'. Normally I'd assume they mean they are not of the first created, like the LotON or Arianna. But they also say they are interlopers. Red Court Vampires who are interlopers in the Red King's Court. Am I wrong in thinking the Eebs are Red Court not born of the Red King? I so the RC menace has been dealt a crippling blow but it is not destroyed.
     
  20. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    The way the book was written - and for it to make sense at all - The Red King had to be the ultimate predecessor/ancestor to ALL Red Court. My take on that conversation is that the Eebs weren't from South America before they were turned, and the Red King wouldn't fully accept anyone not born to the Maya or their decendents as 'true' Red vampires.
     
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