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Complete Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality by Less Wrong - T

Discussion in 'Almost Recommended' started by headbanger22, Mar 9, 2010.

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  1. arkeus

    arkeus Seventh Year

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    Well, still liking it a lot.

    I like that he doesn't have any mouthpieces in his fic, and doesn't hesitate to have his main character severly messing up times after times.

    Really liking how he managed to make a very flawed Quirrelmort that is still awesome in his psychotic ways. Wonder how exactly AD is still, but it looks good so far in that front too.

    Didn't see enough of Snape, but Mcgonagall was good so i don't think he is going to do a too annoying Snape either.

    Also, 'ideas' in fics can't belong solely to a single person. Horcrux are nothing new (here is your ring Sauron) and things about hiding objects have been done over and over.

    So don't hesitate to write whatever you want perspicacity and don't let your pride stop you :p

    I may even try it and hope it goes beyond what your fics usually are.
     
  2. Everetza

    Everetza Second Year

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    Bloody awesome. He's definetly made a hard obstacle with the horcrux in space, but I don't think he's the type of author to do that without a solution (probably involving long monolouges and confusing principles) in mind. So it's all good. I stand by my previous rating.

    @ Perspicacity: I'm with everyone else. Write it. Now.
     
  3. KillerEggLord

    KillerEggLord Third Year

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  4. ChuckDaTruck

    ChuckDaTruck Overlord

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    The following is what I submitted as a review on fanfiction.net

    I didn't spell check it or do a 2nd draft, as it was stream of conscious.

    Firstly, Let me say that I like the story a great deal.

    However, I don't feel that is constructive, so I shall offer critique instead. Namely, the function of Voldemort as an Antagonist, dramatic structure, and citing a few moments that were either jarring or inauthentic in my opinion.

    In Canon, Voldemort was actively trying to kill Harry and was a shameless, disruptive force within Hogwarts, desperate to return to life. (troll, broom attack on Harry, giving Hagrid Norbert, etc.) He served as an antagonist and a true threat to the school (why Dumbledore allowed him to be there is another question). The troll incident was true jeopardy, as was the broom, as was Harry's random encounter with Fluffy as they fled Filch! While it may not be logical for a school to be so hazardous, it added great dramatic flair and dynamic elements. So far, your Harry has these controlled ordeals where pies are flung. The supervised "quasi-beat down" with no punches thrown, while humiliating and a good manifestation to instruct humility, was in reality very low stakes. Arguably the most at stake was some abstract concept of Harry's undefined potential ambition to be a Dark Lord.

    That said, your Voldemort is terrific. The scene set in space was extraordinarily moving insight into Voldemort, although I think it was a bit premature for such an intimate moment. Nevertheless, wonderful; he is crafty, conniving, and supremely arrogant (assuming you can always predict, discern, and understand the chaos of the world is the height of arrogance). He is also more proud and dignified than canon Voldemort. He could not bear to give less than a full effort as a teacher.

    I must also question the pacing at certain moments. That remembrall incident seemed to serve no purpose other than flashy time-turner use and punishment. In canon, Harry getting on Quidditch established the attacks to come later, and Harry getting entry through the key scene at the end, as well as character moments of Harry's victories. Here it served no purposed other than as an elaborate strike on Harry's Time Turner record. Which you have now restricted. I hope this time turner nonsense pays off later.
    Another example of what I thought was self indulgent was the whole nonsense of the sorting Hat as a fully conscious being (Yes like the great apes and such. For the record the sorting hat is self-aware. It refers to itself as a "thinking cap" that is unlike others.) But ultimately this is secondary. What purpose did any of it serve in terms of advancing your story, or adding depth to your characters? It wasn't funny. It was just an arrogant attempt to pointlessly parade your knowledge.

    Kubrick films can be understood by anyone. Hemingway deliberately wrote stories using simple, incisive language. I mean Bayes theory?! How does that nugget of knowledge deepen my experience of your story. You are brandishing your knowledge and self regard as a substitute for achievement. Its like a little boy who has discovered his first orgasm. Yes, you are talented, now get over yourself. You are alienating your readers, and are elevating yourself to a pedantic position of condescending teacher. Treat them with respect, and view their time as the most precious commodity in the world. Anything that is unnecessary to your story, the characters journey, or evoking the emotional response you are aiming for should be excised.

    Which brings me to structure as well. Hogwarts has just begun, and you are already up to chapter 20. The pacing of this story shows no sense of prioritizing what is relevant to the reader, and ordering it. Riddle's candies and backroom? Brevity is a virtue. It also muddles the focus of the story; what is the driving energy of the story, or at least Harry's 1st year?

    Last is Dumbledore performed Legilimency on Harry in front of Voldemort. Say that out loud. Why would Dumbledore do such a thing? To check if Voldemort had performed Legilimency. This notion, naturally presents a slew of problems. Firstly, Why would Albus Dumbledore drop his guard and engage his mind elsewhere when in the presence of his nemesis? And why provide the blackmail material of doing such a thing before an enemy? And why make your opponent aware of your suspicions (I assume they have come to an accord while at Hogwarts.) It does not make sense and is a clear oversight.

    Voldemort's response makes more sense as an attempt to ingratiate himself to Harry, although the question of his awareness of the prophecy looms large, and why he would help a destined foe. Voldemort would never allow someone who was uniquely capable of "vanquishing" him to live, even if he only knows the first half.

    That said, moment to moment, your story is delightful. Your characters are rich and nuanced, and I have enjoyed it tremendously.

    4.6/5
     
  5. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore doesn't know the Quirrel is Voldemort...
     
  6. wolf550e

    wolf550e High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    I agree with Ellisande. It seems one of the AU things in this story is that Dumbledore has never met Quirrell before he was possessed, Voldemort completely took over from the start and acted in a way that did not give it away and thus Dumbledore doesn't know that his D.A.D.A teacher is the Dark Lord. He just thinks he's an eccentric wizard who studied Defense on his own for some years. Voldemort says that there are no achievements to Quirrel's name. I wonder where he went to school.
     
  7. Lokesin

    Lokesin Slug Club Member

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    Has anyone considered the possibility that this Quirrel ISN'T possessed by Voldemort?
     
  8. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I didn't think he was until the author confirmed it in this chapters author's notes.

    He woulda been the most epic nonvoldemort!Quirrel ever too.
     
  9. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

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    Quoted, Gilded, and Super-sized for motherfucking truth and wisdom.
     
  10. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Reading the latest chapter made me want to go read the Thank God You Raped Me thread again.
     
  11. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    All of you people have been hating on this story since pretty much the start, yet you keep coming back and reading the new chapters. Stop reading the damn thing, if you don't like it, ffs.

    Admittedly, the newest chapter wasn't the best of them, but I didn't exactly hate it.
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    People tend to have an odd fascination with fics that fail but could have been great. E.g. the sequel to Jono's Stranger, the whole thing was a trainwreck, but I kept reading each 30k chapter, hoping that it would at some point manage to find its way.

    Same with this fic. There are hints of brilliance, such as his Voldemort, but those hints are smothered by the fail that is so much of the rest of the story.
     
  13. Ayreon

    Ayreon Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    I wish now that he'd just stick to the big discussions about rationality, science and their applications to the HP world, because when he actually tries to do the 'normal' story-telling ... he fails. :-/
     
  14. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I guess it's more the fact that you come into the thread and just say how much you hate it each chapter, it's getting kinda old and repetitive.

    Perhaps it'd be more interesting if you actually did more than just repeatedly bash it. Say what you liked it. I'm well aware the story has failings, but they've all been mentioned to the point of death.
     
  15. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    First off, the only thing I found more annoying than the Stranger series is this fic. I'm not even sure who I'm Reading about anymore, it damn well isn't Harry, or Hermione, or Minerva- as she's constantly fucking called.

    Secondly, there's something about this fic that's just infuriating, and utterly pretentious, like that know-it-all kid at the front of class. Which is why people like to bash it I guess.

    Thirdly, 2/5 . I might come back and leave a real review after I stop raging about the 30 minutes of my life I just lost trying to catch up. I don't know what it is fics like this enrage me more than horrible fiction like My Immortal.
     
  16. Ayreon

    Ayreon Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Just to not give the wrong picture: I like his writing style. I like the big discussions and inner monologues. It's just the part of the story that should hold these together and the humor to liven it up a bit, that often falls a bit flat.

    Just read his Fable of Science and Politics. It's pretty cool. :)
     
  17. wolf550e

    wolf550e High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    I feel that this story to its author is like Hogwarts Dawn to Jeconais: a bit of fun. It's just that Yudkowsky believes his reputation is at stake, and consequently he tries harder. They fail from the same cause: they are written to maximize the enjoyment of the author rather than the quality of the story.
     
  18. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The real problem is that "Harry" is just a thinly veiled metaphor for the author. Problems and all. Too bad, it's a typical trap.
     
  19. Ash

    Ash Moves Like Jagger DLP Supporter

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    Quoted for pure truth.

    The author said in his AN that he was only writing the parts that were fun to write. These parts are clearly the discussions about the important topics his story is focusing on. Rationality, Magical Science (hah), etc.

    Therefore, they are much more fleshed out; he spends more time on them. IMO, if he was writing this in all seriousness, it could be quite good.

    All that said, this feels like a fun, light read. I learn a little something, and it's a welcome surprise to my email when I get an alert about a new chapter. I've stopped taking it entirely seriously, which helps.

    (please excuse any mistakes I made while writing this, I'm decidedly NOT sober)
     
  20. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I don't think I took it seriously from the start heh.

    It's a pure guilty comfort style fic.
     
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