You know, I just read through this entire fic and honestly... I haven't read a story that frustrated me and intrigued me quite as much as this one since the R-Series. If anything, he and I have parallels in our works that intrigues me to no end, and thus spurs me to read a little deeper into what he's writing.

On the one hand, this author does some things very well. Voldemort's characterization is superb, Moody's is excellent, and I haven't read a characterization of Snape or Malfoy that good in a VERY long time. The fight scenes are well-thought out, the dialogue works very well when it's working, the description is good enough to be immersive, and I can definitely appreciate the multi-leveled plot that the author has created. Remarkably thought-provoking stuff, and I'm glad that I managed to read through everything. Overall, when looking at this fic on an outside basis, it definitely holds up.

However, there were things that I didn't like about this story, and they start and end with Harry's characterization. And for everyone else's sake, I'm putting everything in spoiler tags. Expect rage and massive tl,dr.

In case you don't want to read any further, it's 2/5. If you do, highlight and read on.

Spoiler

I'll start off with the trivial complaints before moving onto the big ones. Biggest complaint is dialogue - as I said above, when it works, it really works, but when it doesn't, it's bland at best and quite terrible at worst. Seratin already mentioned that this author's irritating tendency to use spells as verbs, and I'll echo that complaint, adding with it the frustration with the usage of 'wards' and associated technical jargon I tended to skip. With the combined relative excess of grammatical mistakes, this author is in desperate need of a beta, or at least someone to read over his work.

Those concerns, however, don't begin to touch on my biggest problems with this story.

First to address one reader in particular: Taure. You've flat-out told me that I write an unlikable Harry - in fact, if I remember correctly, that was one of the many reasons you stopped reading Renegade Cause. If that was true, I don't know how the fuck you like this Harry, because he's even more unlikable than mine. I should clarify this statement because this Harry is not intended to be liked - he's intended to be a ruthless, utterly dispassionate killer, and while the author has drawn this progression extremely well, Harry has lost so much of his humanity that I really can't empathize with him any more. He doesn't even pretend to understand the cause he's fighting for. In this, the title is apt - Harry is a weapon, nothing less, and very little more. But while the Harry in Wastelands of Time fought for either Tonks, Fleur, or the salvation of mankind, and my Harry in Renegade Cause fought to clear his name and regain the innocence that he's losing with every step he takes, this Harry fights because 'he likes the sound of democracy more than dictatorship'. So I ask the question: what makes this Harry different than any other Death Eater committed to his duty?

What really shocks me is while the author fleshes out so many other characters with realistic, shocking humanity, he has slowly turned Harry into this soulless, brutal automaton, dedicated to the fulfillment of the prophecy and the conclusion of the war - and for what reason? Because he can't let go of his all-consuming grief, or refuses to even think that there's a hope in hell that the prophecy is not the absolute chain to destroy him? This Harry is not living his own life, he's letting the prophecy live it for him, and unless the author intended that as a commentary on deterministic thinking, it's a pretty shocking portrayal.

Following that point, I have to say that I bloody HATED what this author did to Dumbledore's characterization and force of will - namely, that both of them evaporated. Taure, I expected better from you on this - Dumbledore's your favourite character, and you accept this abortion of his personality? This characterization of Dumbledore is spineless, and while he might appear to be well-informed, the fact that he was able to compromise his morality in the face of Harry's actions is appalling. If anything, between him and Snape (the second character the author appears to have naked disdain for), the author has effectively removed any moral authority in Harry's life that has the balls to call him out on his actions, or even question them. Sure, Lupin or Elphias Doge or some other Order member might say something, but since Harry doesn't respect any moral authority besides his own, their opinions are held to be less than worthless.

Let me follow this by saying that while I appreciate the little 'pockets of thought' Harry constantly injects into every scene, they very quickly begin to repeat themselves. The same 'War is a necessary hell, I'm a monster and have accepted it, I will die loveless and alone' rhetoric makes me wonder what versions of Nietzche and Ayn Rand this author has been reading. If anything, about midway thought one of the scenes where Harry systematically murders the stunned Death Eaters, I was wondering when I had stopped reading Harry Potter fanfiction and instead was reading Warhammer 40K. But then I realized something: even though Astares are brutal killers built for war, they have personality, a soul of absolute belief, a dream for the greater future or survival of mankind (well, at least they did in the Horus Heresy series - can't speak for everything). This Harry doesn't have dreams, and the frankly irritating and quite pointless little asides with Luna and Hagrid only prove this starkly.

It doesn't help that this story has huge problems with tone - and I thought my story was depressing. After reading sixteen chapters of Harry brutalizing HIMSELF, I was treated to twenty-one chapters of brutality. Seriously, I think there's at least one murder per chapter - it honestly got to the point where I didn't give a rat's ass who Harry was killing, other that to feel mildly sickened at the end of it. Any attempted humorous moments feel awkward as hell, and even the bland conversational scenes have a cold, unworldly feel to them - which makes sense, considering they're all viewed through Harry's eyes. All in all, it makes for a seriously depressing and frustrating read.

You know, I've got to wonder how this author is going to end his story. If Harry dies, he won't really be remembered as a hero, at least to those who came to know him. If Harry lives and wins the war, what the fuck is he going to do with the rest of his life? He's emotionally damaged beyond repair, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up getting put down or committed to St. Mungo's permanently. At least Snape, one of the closest parallels to Harry in this story, has more of a soul.

My biggest problem is the theme that this story has taken. I'm objecting to it purely on philosophical grounds, because this Harry is utterly immoral, and any moral opposition that any character takes to it isn't given the fucking time of day (thanks to the neutering of Dumbledore, mostly). But what is really appalling about this work is how those who have figured it out just take it (with the notable exception of Snape, who really just doesn't give two shits). Nobody's called Harry out, nobody's made him question, nobody's pointed a finger and told Harry 'You're WRONG!', or at least not anyone whom Harry respects or cares about (which is pretty much nobody, despite all of his talk of 'doing this so his friends don't have to' - if any of them turned on him (Ron, albeit for the wrong reasons), he'd either dispassionately ignore them or kill them). And I'm not going to lie, it's pretty fucking sickening to read Harry idly reading the paper every day about all the Death Eaters he's killed the night before, as if nothing bothers him. Congratulations, author - you've turned Harry into the most well-written sociopath I've seen in a long time, and what's more, you sympathize with Harry's actions because you don't give anyone else in this story the fucking time of day.

I can't respect the theme of this story, I can't like the protagonist, and I honestly can't say that my life was enriched or improved by the four hours I spent reading it. If anything, this story illustrates everything that is wrong with Nietzche and Randian Objectivism, and for that, it fucking deserves its 2/5.

 

It's times like that that I wish I had a slow-clap emoticon.

 

My reason for finding your Harry unlikable had nothing to do with his morality, and everything to do with him being a moody whiny bitch <_<

Dumbledore's initial characterisation annoyed me, but the recent change has made me happier. Though the change was a bit random and seemingly without reason.

Anyway, needless to say I think a) your philosophical/moral viewpoint is crap, b) philosophy has no place in fanfiction anyway, so you're reading far too much into the story. It's just a story. And c) this fic does not represent the philosophy you think it does. I'm not seeing any significant Nietzschean philosophy in there, or Rand. Harry isn't pursuing power, or liberty. He's just pursuing the destruction of his enemy.

I think I like this fic for the exact reason you don't.

 

Sorry for derailing the thread, and warning for tl,dr below.

Hmm, interesting comment, particularly considering the circumstances, as both my work and this work have relatively similar divergence points (both are informed of the prophecy early in the story, albeit with vastly different circumstances - the major difference is Harry in my story also had a full criminal investigation breathing down his throat and a wizarding world completely turning against him. He's fifteen, for fuck's sake, and given the basis characterization for Harry coming out of that point in canon, it makes a shitload of sense. But whatever, if you disliked my version of Harry so much for being a 'whiny, moody bitch' (clearly you didn't read past Chapter 18, but whatever), then you can go back to reading this, where he's a moody, self-destructive antisocial psychopath.

You took the same philosophy courses (if not more) than I did, we both know that spew does not count for an argument. Once again, I expected better.

Of course I'm reading that into a story - if I've invested over four hours of my time reading the damn thing, of course I'm going to read into thematic elements and philosophy. I'm a writer, for fuck's sake, that's what I bloody do. If anything, your statement that 'philosophy has no place in fanfiction' is horse manure. The best stories are those that are more than just 'eye-candy', but also those that have some fucking deeper meaning. I'm not going to simply be taken in by a story that is mechanically sound and 'looks cool with apt characterization' on paper, which, from your fanfic preferences, seems to be the only things that really count in fanfiction (I'm still not forgetting that you recced that other 'looks nice on paper' piece of shit Runemaster, btw). I'm sorry, but if I'm going to invest my valuable time in reading a story and I can't find a philosophy behind it I like or identify with, I'm wasting my time.

Let's take a look at some of the stories that have been published or updated recently. Ambient is a story that meanders in plot, but has a central theme regarding loss and how different people cope with it. Wastelands of Time is epic and world-spanning, but the theme that comes out is that if you are willing to give and sacrifice anything, and you have a cause worth fighting for, the good life is achievable (sorry, Joe, for distilling your story down, but that's really the biggest reason why I still really like it). Even that piece of shit Methods of Rationality has a fucking theme - it's a discourse on, you guessed it, the bloody philosophy of rationality.

All three works are well-written pieces of fanfiction that are deeply entrenched in the type of prose that conveys philosophical meaning. And yeah, I'm willing to say this, in every piece of fanfiction I've written, I've tried to write something with a deeper meaning.

You know, it's well-accepted that HP fanfiction is on its way out, and when I look back in six years, presuming Rowling hasn't shot the franchise with another book, I've got to ask where it's going to be, what fics will be remembered. Sure, I might remember some for being well-crafted or interestingly formatted or with particularly good characterization, but you know the fics I'm really going to remember as seminal? The fics that have an emotional theme that I can identify with. The fics that I can read and at the end say, "Damn, that was a great story with a great theme and even if I can't really feel good about how it might have ended or how it was stylistically constructed, I still loved it because of those deeper elements." Wastelands of Time will likely be one of those fics. So are a bunch of the Lily/Snape fics that I still read and enjoy. This story, like the R-Series and Methods of Rationality, will NOT be on that list.

So, bringing it back to this story, there IS a deeper meaning in this fic, like in surprisingly many, and it's one I can't agree with. For you to say there's no philosophy in this fic is woefully ignorant - did you just ignore the pages of 'thought' that Harry puts into defining his motives and actions? Have you overlooked the chapters filled with moments where Harry's actions are constantly questioned by either himself or other characters as 'right' or 'wrong'? Did you ignore the fucking last chapter, where

Spoiler

Voldemort gave an eloquent soliloquy on why Harry should join him, complete with elegant philosophical and political rhetoric?

So yeah, if you just want to appreciate this story as 'art' and say I'm reading into things too much... sure, you can say that. And sure, this fic is mostly mechanically sound and engaging and all that bullshit. But eventually, one has to look past that and take a look for something a little deeper, something that is worth my fucking time. This fic depresses and infuriates me (as did Methods of Rationality), and I don't think it was worth my time. But I expected more from you, Taure, I thought you actually had a deeper appreciation for quality literature than apparently you do. I'm disappointed.

 

Major thread derail here, but heh, its an interesting subject, so I'll put my 1 3/4 cents in.

I agree with Silens comments that Harry is not likeable in this story. He is a sociopath, or so close to it as to hardly matter. But, I don't think all your criticisms are completely fair.

Dumbledore. Sure, he has removed himself from criticizing the Chosen One. If he believes Harry an instrument of prophecy, it is entirely plausible and ultimately logical that he let Harry take care of biz, especially as he has demonstrated his inordinate skill and ability to do so. Is it a character flaw? Yes. Tormented by his memories of Riddle, is he making as big a mistake with Harry? Very possibly. Time will tell.

Concerning a deeper message. I think it is a little premature to declare that there is no deeper meaning to this fic. We all see that Harry is progressing into a cold-blooded murderer, even to the point of considering killing innocents who discover his activities. I think it very probable that Harry will come to a sticky end in this fic or that he will have some sort of epiphany that will reveal the shallowness in his life and his actions. I could be wrong, but it seems likely given the progression that his character is taking. That in itself will be a hell of a message.

Even in the absence of that message, I am firmly of the belief that stories can be well worth your time if they are only fun to read. A good plot, characterization and description are good enough reason to read, imho. Sure, great or good literature is more than that, but surely everyone here likes to read pulp now and again.

But, I don't think this story qualifies as that. The very fact that it encourages such questions is some proof that it has a message, even if it is not clear yet what that message is. In the interim, we get to see Harry lay waste to all moral conventions, murder his enemies, wield fantastic powers and turn canon on its ear. What's not to like about that?

 

Sree, we've had this argument before on IRC, and once again I'll restate that my version of Harry in Renegade Cause does feel guilty for his actions (although his guilt in such cases is questionable, as is his responsibility in the initial attacks - added with the fact there was a conversation at the very beginning of the story between Harry and Dumbledore that, as of yet, full details are not known). How Harry is dealing with his guilt is far from healthy - most of it has been channeled into paranoia and hatred - and Sirius and Tonks are supporting Harry and have consistently tried to bring him into a more rational frame of mine. Furthermore, Harry knew early his justification is pretty paltry, but what else, exactly, is he supposed to run with? How exactly is he supposed to make restitution when certain members of the Ministry want to send him to Azkaban? But whatever, this thread is not about Renegade Cause, so if you want to express your complaints, I'd appreciate you dropping a review in the WbA thread, taking this to the open forum.

The Harry in this story is different, and if anything, this Harry would have absolutely ZERO qualms killing Hit Wizards or Aurors if they got in his way. Would he feel guilty? Sure, for a few brief seconds before moving onto the next target.

Spoiler

Keep in mind this is a Harry that kills Death Eaters on suspicion alone, without question. He has only let Snape live as long as he has because of his potential usefulness. I mean, for fuck's sake, this Harry contemplated killing Luna for 'knowing too much'!

Sooner90 - I think you might have mistaken what I was saying about a deeper meaning. I wasn't saying at all there wasn't one - there is - but that I completely disagree with it on principle. And if Harry does have that epiphany, I would be very surprised and probably quite moved. Thing is, from the direction the author has taken the story, I don't believe he's going to take the route (given how every single 'moral authority' who might believe said epiphany has effectively been silenced), and even if he does, the starkness of Harry's atrocities is a pretty bleak way of getting the message across.

And yeah, everyone does like to read pulp now and again, but (and this is more of a personal qualm) I've gotten past of simple satisfaction with a 'well-told' story, and I like stories with that ounce of deeper meaning. Most of that has to do with my complete lack of time for most things these days, so I want to make the best of it. Hell, I'll overlook a lot of flaws when I see that chance for a 'deeper story', so to speak. Maybe that's why this story disappointed me as much as it did, because I found the 'message' it was trying to convey not to my liking at all.

 

Silens, I swear every story thread you post in you compare it to your story or mention how in your story something is different and it derails for a while to a thread about your story. :/

Just sayin'

 

You're getting to be just as bad as Datakim with the fucking massive posts Silens.

Least you admit it's TLDR and giving warnings.

 

Not true, he always checks these allegations with his overpowered Legilimency.

 

Also referring to the Luna thing in what Krzaq quoted, he more thought about having to think about killing her. He knew that it was not necessary.

 

1. Am not willing to get into a massive thread derail discussing your entire philosophy. I have no interest in doing so, no one here wants to read it, and frankly I don't care enough about your opinion to invest the time to do so.

2. One thing you learn after doing a lot of philosophy is that no one cares about arguments anyway. People don't change their minds about this sort of stuff.

Suffice it to say that I find the Harry in this story no more immoral than any other soldier IRL. Either you're a pacifist, or you don't consider the war depicted in this fic to be a war. Both positions are rather odd.

As for the rest, you're being a pretentious dick. I read for entertainment. If I want philosophy, I'll read a philosophy book, which handles philosophy much better than a story. You say your time is wasted if you don't find "deeper meaning". I am the opposite. I explicitly avoid fics which try to push a philosophy on me. I'm looking for a story, not a fable.

And since we're talking of apparent shallowness, if I'm shallow for thinking the idea of a separation between literature and pulp fiction is a fake line created by academic elite who would be unemployed if people realised that all they do is talk about stories all day, then you're even more so for deeming all messages contrary to what you believe in to be unreadable. If you're so interested in deeper meaning, consider this: the most edifying stories will not be those that reinforce your world view, but rather those that challenge it.

Change "every story thread" into "every post he has ever made" and you're getting there.

 

3/5.

To be honest, not worth the time it took to read it. The Harry-turns-into-superhuman-nerd storyline has been overdone and this version of it doesn't bring anything new or exciting to the table. There's also a complete lack of plausibility: as a reader, it's just hard for me to suspend disbelief and accept the author's transformation of Harry into an automaton. The writing is okay, enjoyable at some spots, bland at many places. The supporting cast characterization (apart from Snape, who's well-done) is lacking.

It's not a bad story, per se, but it's just overwhelmingly mediocre and isn't uniquely strong enough in any aspect to deserve a library bid.

 

Not that anyone cares, but Donoso Cortes (the guy Voldemort cites in Chapter 37) was one of the background thinkers responsible for the rise of fascism. He was cited -- and praised by Carl Schmitt (the legal theorist of the Nazi state) -- for being the first to isolate sovereignty in the 'decision' rather than the body(ies) of the sovereign(s). So anyone bitching at Silens for philosophy in fanfiction needs to reread the most recent chapter.

As for this story. I give it a 'meh'. It's better than most of the shit currently belching forth from the keyboards of fanfiction writers, but since 8/10 of those stories are of the Harry having Draco's shit-baby/sucking Snape's dick on the side persuasion this is hardly a compelling reason to endorse it.

 

Even if there's truth to this quote (which I could quibble with on the basis of that Harry having been under informed at the beginning and acting in a way that seemed rational to him, and this ends up leading him down a relatively destructive although, in my mind, justified path), there's a massive difference also in execution of these two characters. As Silens mentioned, the first 16 or so chapters are just unpleasant to read, and not in any fascinating way, I mean I just did not want to read them. Moving forward, the story gets better, but Harry's actions are still unjustifiable and unimpeded by the authority figures who would, if they weren't so OOC, very likely step in (cough cough, Dumbledore).

Essentially, while there are compelling elements to this story, I can't rate a story well that has 16 chapters that are so thoroughly unreadable.

2/5

 

Going to ignore the argument going on here and ask a question. Does anyone else see a resemblance between Harry's militia utilising Fred's Flintstones/Darkness Powder and the Asha'man in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series? The philosophy of Potter in this fic is eerily similar to Rand's thoughts on battle against the Dark One and his minions. Kill them all, kill them quickly, kill them dead.

 

Err, that's pretty much the philosophy if anyone who wants to win a war with the least amount of casualties on their own side wouldn't you say?

 

True, but I was talking more about in style and execution than anything else, which I probably should have made clear. The way it was done in the novels was simply "Asha'man ready, Asha'man kill." Whereupon they proceeded to explode enemies who were almost powerless to stop them in an extremely violent and gory manner (which was pretty much unheard of for people who could use the Power to do, since the majority physically couldn't).

Just struck me as remarkably similar, is all.

 

Yeah, but RJ has far more descriptions of the deaths in all honesty. This is just "he killed them" that's all the description you really get.

Something which is a reasonably refreshing change considering some of the shit we've had to read in the past.

 

Sorry, not attempting to derail the thread again, but I felt something was left out.

There's been a lot of discussion about Harry's so called remorselessness in killing, and how unbelievable it is. One thing that should be kept in mind is how Harry only started killing after witnessing countless muggle raids for days on end through Voldemorts eyes.

This really reminded me of Dresden Files, and Dresden's changed views on the Red Court. I'll put it in Spoiler tags just in case some people haven't read Dresden Files but might.

Also, if you're on the fence about reading them, do it.

Spoiler

In Grave Peril, near the end of the book, Harry uses one of Kravos' spells to burn two vamps to death, complete incineration. But even after watching them kidnap a woman he wanted to protect, in the moment he killed them, he felt sick.

Fast forward to White Night and Camp Kaboom. What he did to that Ghoul was some cold shit. Not to mention way more brutal than what QTuani7's Potter does.

Fast forward even further to Changes, and we have Dresden leaving Red Court vamps burning alive to attract the rest. He crushed dozens (hundreds?) of vamps with brutal Earth Magic, and then kills the woman he loved for years, thus committing mass genocide.

I'm not saying the situations were the same, or even that similar, but the things they saw in their wars changed them. Made it easier to kill when it was needed, and willing to sacrifice everything. The differences with Dresden were that we got to see the before and after, where as with Potter we didn't.

I'd also argue that Harry isn't really just murdering Death Eaters because he likes the sounds of democracy more, it's because they're destroying families and killing children. Just look at his calling card. Those My Little Ponies could have been anything, but he chose that because it held a deep personal reason for why he just did what he did. Justifying it to himself without meaning to.

All I'm saying is that Harry's seen some fucked up shit in this fic. Sure, not everyone is going to react the way he did, but, in the very least, it's well within my willing suspension of disbelief.

Anyway, now that that tl;dr is over, I'd give the story a 4/5. I didn't mind the beginning, but I understand that it was pretty dull and dragged on. Thankfully, the character evolution in Harry was interesting enough to make up for it in my mind.

edit:

Ugh, can't believe I didn't see this before, but Harry in this story also reminds me of Dexter. If only slightly less crazy.