Just wondering what exactly the Sorting Hat may have been thinking when it decided to put Pettigrew into Gryffindor. I fail to see one trait that matches the many descriptions we get of the house. Unless you really could just pick what house you wanted to go into like Harry did.

 

People change. Especially at adolesence. Who knows? He might have been brave when younger.

 

Maybe he lacked the qualities of the other houses more (not ambitious, not intelligent, NOT loyal), and put him in gryffindor to become more balls-y. Y'know, become like who you hang out with?

 

Alternatively, he had the potential to tap into his inner bravery, or such - but constantly being in the shadows of his more talented and popular friends kept him from ever doing so. Who knows.

 

I'd take that one step further and say Pettigrew's situation was similar to Neville's- a lad of low self-worth that could be cultivated into a stronger person. Pettigrew did hook up with some popular dudes and cooperated in scouting out the castle, probably also playing lookout for their more elaborate pranks. Unfortunately, he couldn't translate that into a backbone once separated from his fellows.

The Hat gambled, as it always does, but crapped out on this one. With Neville he made the longshot.

 

Agree with Wordhammer, my guess would be that the hat thought he had the potential to be a "true Gryffindor", but it isn't a guarantee. Pettigrew failed to live up to what he could have been.

 

Risking your neck by going against arguably the most powerful and talented wizards in England (the Order of the Phoenix) is pretty damn brave - or reckless. Both qualities are hallmarks of house Gryffindor.

 

Mostly agree here, but I think I'm one of the few people who actually think that Pettigrew did show signs of 'bravery' - although not in the typical sense.

Think about it - as a member of the Order of the Phoenix, he made the extremely risky choice to defect to Voldemort's side and sell out his best friends. Sure, there was motivation out of fear, but Dumbledore has proven to be imposing himself throughout the series (and this isn't including other members of the Order who would have the capacity to destroy Peter - namely Moody, Sirius, and when he got angry enough, Hagrid). If anything, Pettigrew was taking a massive risk in his defection. Now it might not be chivalrous, but a choice like that would have taken a hell of a lot of nerve.

Fast-forward to the summer of 94. Peter has just escaped from his years as Scabbers. Keep in mind that he could go anywhere in the world, hide as either a rat or a man. Yet he doesn't. Instead, out of some sense of vague loyalty (possibly fear, but I doubt it - Voldemort would not have been a threat yet to him), he goes to Voldemort and aids him in a fantastically complicated plan. He even takes his loyalty to the point where he chops off his own hand to bring Voldemort back. Now, I'm sorry, but it takes some massive balls from anyone to chop off a limb, even with the possibility of having it restored.

Keep in mind that Pettigrew's not like Lucius - he never had that driving ambition behind him, or even much cunning, as he tended to rely more on Voldemort for his plans. He doesn't seem committed to the ideas of hard work (he pleaded for Voldemort to pursue an easier plan in GoF (and ironically, from Dumbledore's explanation in DH, if Voldemort had chosen another man's blood, there would be no double binding between Harry and the Dark Lord, and Harry might not have survived the removal of the horcrux inside of him)), or to the idea of group loyalty (he was willing to betray all of his friends). And he doesn't really appear to be remarkably intelligent.

If anything, I'd have been surprised if Pettigrew ended up anywhere else but Gryffindor.

EDIT: damn, mostly ninja'ed by Blaise

 

Agreed with most of the above posts.

The thing about sorting that you have to consider is this: everybody has to be assigned to one of the Houses, but that doesn't mean that everyone is a perfect example of that house's characteristics.

Let's say that the Sorting Hat tries to put all the most intellectual students into Ravenclaw. That means that Ravenclaw gets the 99th percentile intellectuals, who should indeed be pretty damn smart and studious. But even if it puts all of the most intellectual students into that house, by definition you're going to have people who sit around the 75th percentile of braininess (I'm speculating that the Hat tries to keep a rough balance of students in each house). 75th percentile brains are...well, ordinary - someone might say that they're intellectually capable, but nobody would look at them as an archetype of braininess.

Now it gets even more complicated, because we know from canon that the Hat doesn't work like this. It will put top-tier brains like Hermione into Gryffindor, because it believes that her bravery is the more important part of her. It will put Percy into Gryffindor, despite obvious intellectualism and ambition. And so on - the net result is that Ravenclaw is probably getting people that are perfectly average, simply because they're even less of a fit for any of the other houses. Rinse and repeat for the other houses, and it becomes easy to see how someone like Peter Pettigrew could be sorted into Gryffindor.

 

Uhm, yeah... I'm not buying any of that. Anybody who thinks Pettigrew made the big decisions out of bravery really didn't read canon like I did - all I agree with is that he had the balls to go through with his selfish decisions. It's difficult to argue that he displays more qualities attributed to Gryffindor than Slytherin.

Seems much more likely that it's a combination of factors, like the fact that they sort kids before adolescence, that the hat can be influenced to an extent and that growing up with a war might cause some traits to develop over others (Pettigrew shows good survival instinct, imo).

 

Also, it is not that hard to believe that a person would grow up to be different than he was when he was eleven.

 

Despite the Golden Trio's perspective in canon, Slytherin is not synonymous with 'Evil', nor is Gryffindor with 'Good'. I don't believe in exceptions which prove the rule and I got the impression that, despite darker imagery and the need for consistent villains through her stories, JKR probably didn't intend the snake house to be the square root of all evil.

This said, Pettigrew's being in Gryffindor feels a little like a PoA afterthought - JKR saying 'Every side has baddies!' It's all perspective - we hear a lot in early books about what a brute Marcus Flint is on the Quidditch pitch, but imagine how horrendous it would be facing the Weasley twins as beaters. Combined with their pranks, it's very likely the majority of the school both feared and hated them.

I don't think 'selfish decisions' or the ability to make them would a Slytherin make. Gryffindor's staple - so-called 'courage' - does not indicate selflessness. Nor does Peter have cunning or any real ambition. Whilst he likely doesn't fit into Gryffindor, he fits less into Slytherin...

I'd probably go with Hufflepuff. He shows immense loyalty to the Marauders and, for all we know, is treated as an afterthought for the entirety. He is famous, to the point of the Minister of Magic referencing it in Hogsmeade, for being completely useless. Imagine how that would grate on an unconditionally loyal person for a long period of time. The very idea of him being the secret keeper and traitor is utterly absurd to everyone involved - who else could it have been but bold, brash Sirius Black? Not stupid, bumbling Pettigrew.

Imagine the burning need to prove yourself amongst all this... then imagine Voldemort, who offers (whilst not approval and pretty words) actual, physical, tangible rewards for his unwavering loyalty.

 

I agree mostly with Grinning Lizard. Gryffindor isn't synonymous with good, and you often hear how they're regarded by other houses as reckless.

As with Harry I imagine the sorting hat does take preferences into account. I'm speculating here but if Pettigrew met James and Sirius before the sorting, on the boat or train or however, and they espoused pro-Gryffindor views, Pettigrew would probably do the opposite of what Harry did on meeting Draco. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine him having the choice between Hufflepuff and Gryffindor, the former enhancing loyalty, the latter his recklessness.

When he appears in PoA he says: "You don’t understand! He would have killed me, Sirius!". To me this makes it sound like he was confronted by Voldemort and capitulated with only a moment to decide. His animagus is a rat, compared to a stag and a grim-like dog, it's pretty lame. I would imagine he got a lot of bullying about this from his best friends. I don't think Pettigrew is dissimilar to Ron. A mediocre wizard overshadowed by his close friends, and constantly aware of it.

Both had the potential to be great Gryffindors, and both probably desired to be in Gryffindor. I think this is why the sorting hat chose to place Peter there.

 

I think the pettigrew-as-gryffindor point is less of a good-vs-evil point, and more of a traits point. Every gryffindor I've seen so far has, at some point or another, shown courage and bravery in the face of overwhelming odds, and kept on fighting. Insert Peter Pettigrew in PoA. Crying, blubbering, begging for his life while whining about how it wasn't his fault does not a very good Gryffindor make.

 

We can't really know for sure either way, but I don't agree with this. Sirius was right: "Unwavering loyalty" means that when faced with death, he would have died rather than betray his friends, just as they would have done for him. Pettigrew was thick, but even he must have known the stakes involved here. By choosing to save his own life, he was very consciously choosing to end that of one of his so-called best friends, his friend's wife, and their child.

Pettigrew stayed with the Marauders for the same reason that he stayed with the Weasleys. He didn't stay because he was exceptionally loyal, but because he gained a measure of security in keeping the status quo. The Marauders were the most powerful force in Gryffindor during that time. The Weasleys weren't, but by then he didn't have a ton of options to choose from.

IMO his accepting the role of Secret Keeper actually shows a faint streak of Gryffindor courage - he could have just said "no." Problem was, his courage wasn't strong enough for the task.

I do think that the Sorting Hat considered Slytherin for Pettigrew, but ultimately his cunning and ambition weren't all that developed either, and the Hat does consider the person's wishes. ("Not Slytherin, not Slytherin...")

 

I do not agree with your premise. You assume that the hat actually choose in which house you will fit best, I do not think that he work like that.

If the hat was free to send the student where they fit the best, Harry would have been a Slytherin, no question asked. Harry wanted to be a Gryffindor, so he got in. Family tend to be in the same house because they grow in an environment that promote one house

Following that logic, Peter got into Gryffindor because he wanted to. Same with Hermione and Neville.

In others words, the hat do not choose in which house you want to be in, he short you in the house that you want to be in. If you hesitated between two houses, I suppose he can ask you some question to choose between them, but in the end, he only confirm your choice.

 

Yes, because clearly that's what I wrote.

You chose the stupidest interpretation of what I didn't say, nice.

So let's look at the traits actually attributed to Gryffindor and Slytherin:

So, while selfishness isn't really a Slythering trait (which is why I didn't say it was), it does go against the notion of chivalry. Cunning and being unscrupulous, I think we can argue he was both - although the general character canon paints may not seem very clever, this is a man who got his best friend accused of all his crimes, lived undercover for twelve years as an animal, and brought the Dark Lord back to corporeal form. And as for joining Voldermort in the first place, as far as I can see he did it because of cowardice or hunger for power, and probably both. The hat apparently doesn't mention ambition in the first song, but the fact that he seeks the favour of what he perceives as the strongest wizards might qualify as a mix of ambition and opportunism.

Taking away any consideration for right and wrong, there's really nothing there that speaks of a Gryffindor, and several things that make him a good Slytherin. He doesn't even display the worst traits one might attribute to Gryffindors, like brashness.

Another thing to consider is that Slytherin put a lot of importance on blood purity. Obviously Snape wasn't a pureblood so it's not an absolute, but it may also be a factor against him going there.

So your whole argument is that he was so loyal that he betrayed his friends. I don't think I should answer that seriously; the only thing I'll say is that at best it's a weird extrapolation with no canon basis whatsoever. And I'm not saying his inferiority complex didn't play its part in his actions. There's simply no reason to think he was loyal in the first place, just because he wanted to be friends with the most skilled and popular boys at school, and betrayed them as they graduated and the war looked more threatening. The very thing that would set a loyal person apart is their actions in the face of adversity, including their friend's negligence.

That said, I have no doubt that if JKR ever writes some sort of prequel fic novel, she'll play down Pettigrew's selfishness and cowardice.

Edit:

You do realise we're talking about canon Harry here, right?

 

Essentially we have completely different ideas of a character we really know very little about. I interpret Pettigrew in a very different way. There isn't really a single house that could accurately hold him, from what we actually know of him - which bizarrely makes him a better rounded character whatever the interpretation.

My point was that loyalty that goes unrecognised for so long will usually turn into something nasty. Dogs bite cruel owners. And no loyalty is absolute; in the blink of an eye the 2nd Year 'Puffs turn on Harry in CoS - admittedly they're 12, but in such a clear-cut 'Hufflepuffs are loyal' outline, either they're suddenly and immediately out of character or house definitions are not set in stone.

Except where noted to be extrapolation, nothing I said was out of canon. It was the bare minimum of what we are given in canon. What you countered with included;

...which was nothing but 'extrapolation with no canon basis'.

Replace the word 'loyal' above with 'brave' or the point is moot. Loyalty has a breaking point. Theoretically, bravery does not. Replace it with 'cunning' and the point would still be moot. Cunning wouldn't allow a character to enter a situation out of their control, theoretically, and it certainly isn't the trait displayed when they change their actions in the face of adversity. That would be cowardice. Whilst that is the antithesis of Gryffindor, it is not an advertised trait of Slytherin.

Canon tells us that the Marauders fell apart anyway. They (James, Sirius and Lily) thought Lupin was the mole. They ostracised him. Apart from supporting my point about Pettigrew being an afterthought, this shows that the loyalty they felt to each other - as was likely common for dozens of close-knit groups in that time - began to crumble from within. The foundations for Pettigrew joining Voldemort were in place from early on, but when things started to go sour, it was likely only the catalyst.

Penultimate point, because I need to get some sleep; Snape was promised that Lily would be spared. Who knows what Pettigrew was promised for his cooperation. It isn't clear at all at which point Pettigrew's loyalty to his friends actually wavered enough for him to join Voldemort. If we're going to hypothesize, I could just as easily assert that he joined the Dark Lord to save his friends.

Ultimate point; It takes loyalty to give a man you're scared of power over you when he is powerless. Why take a Dark Lord that is embodied as an infant and go straight to him after escaping a Dementor's Kiss? Imagine the work that would be put into finding a creature that cannot be found. He made a concerted effort to get his master back to power - at tremendous personal sacrifice - when he could have done what he'd done for more than a decade and simply hidden. The 'Puffs are personified as natural followers but nowhere does it indicate that they couldn't just as easily be loyal followers to the dark side rather than the light.

 

That applies to pretty much everyone. No three dimensional character really fits exactly into any of them. People are made up of more than just one defining characteristic.

 

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, canon-Harry was the horcrux of someone might have wanted to be a slytherin. That soul fragment may have confused the Hat when he tried to guess in which house Harry wanted to be.