Do you see what I wrote ? Resurrected 1st and 2nd aren't equal to real 1st and 2nd. Third had 69 when died, so you like miscalculated 20 years... First fought to standstill with Uchiha Madara, when he was the strongest. Current Madara "shadow" of his former-self win with Konan and draw with 4th... Orochimaru was more bark then fight like (Kabuto had got the same, when he was saying he is as strong as Kakashi), he was saying things like him being strongest from his team-mates. They were are more or less eqaul and please don't talk like he got draw against them without using hands... Orochimaru was very good kage level ninja but he wasn't for example better then first, second, fourth. We do not know how good 3rd was in youth, all we know that he "win" with 3 "kage" level shinobi - using sacrificing technique (with this technique Asuma, Kakashi or others junin also would won). Of course it's my private opinion, not everybody has to agree.

I have maybe change of discussion but also connected with Orochimaru and Edo Tensei. We know from Kabuto, that killing summoner won't end the technique. So what if, Orochimaru summon 2nd Hokage use his tag and ordered him to summon him after he die, next kill himself (commit suicide). Next we see is Orochimaru living(sort of) with super regeneration and immortality.

 

I'd like to know that as well.

 

I remember one with Naruto being believed to died at the VOTE, coming back to Konoha after his "funeral" all patch-up in bandages (not being recognized by Sakura) leaving with Hinata, but I would give it max 2.5/5. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4699691/1/Son_of_whirlpool
Lastly I was reading http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6762955/1/Whirlpools_Rebirth - also in this themes, but also not very good, read if you like (there are not any more good Naruto fics I had not read yet...). All with Naruto creating new village are hopeless...

 

Naruto is way to brain damaged to create a village. He wants to be kage of one that treats him with hate and indifference for 12 years and wants to be its kage so the only explanation is he is brain damaged

 

Yes. They don't tire, they don't run out of chakra, and the only way to stop them is to rip out their souls. Yeah, they are not equal to the real First and Second. They're probably more dangerous. The only real difference I can see is that they don't seem to have wild bursts of inspiration like real humans do- they're basically like really well programmed computers running the bodies of the First and Second.

Yeah, I was exaggerating for effect. Also, to my knowledge there is absolutely no real example of Uchiha Madara's abilities at that time. At best, your hypothesis is pure supposition. At worst, fanon hyperbole.

Actually, we have no idea where canon Orochimaru falls on the power scale of the Sanin. The only relevent information we have is when he and Kabuto fight Tsunade and Jiraiya. He was winning against Jiraiya, but he was forced to retreat as soon as Tsunade pulled her head out of her ass. Both Jiraiya and Orochimaru were handicapped in some way, Orochimaru more severely.

Also 'Madara' (I'll address this later) didn't draw with the 4th. He was driven off. Not easily, mind you, but the Fourth had 'Madara's number. Konan, on the other hand, was pretty much fodder for 'Madara' to kill, demonstrating his power. Hell, Jiraiya took Konan out- it really isn't that hard to do in a direct fight.

We pretty much agree on that then, although I might hypothesize based on Jiraiya's performance later on in the manga that all three Sannin are extremely specialized in what they do, because I sincerely doubt that Jiraiya or Orochimaru were really 'very good' all around 'kage-level ninja'; Orochimaru got sucker-punched to death by Sasuke-freaking-Uchiha, for example.

To continue with the theory, Tsunade really is the best healer atound, Jiraiya is a ridiculously amazing infiltrator, and Orochimaru is... Uh not really sure, given how little we actually see of his skill set. Put them out of their element, and they're a lot weaker ('merely' elite Jonin as opposed to Kage-level).

Actually, no. Your opinion is ill informed there, I'm afraid. We know he was strong enough to be the Second's successor, which should say a lot, and that he beat out Danzo for the slot. However, to my knowledge, the only Elite jonin currently revealed in canon who would have had a chance against the Kages and Orochimaru is Kakashi, because he's the only one who had access to Shadow Clones.

It could be an interesting plot element- if you really wanted to make Orochimaru the uber-villain. If Edo Tensai works as Kabuto descibes it, then it is probably the most powerful technique ever conceived- which makes me skeptical of Kabuto's honesty.

On 'Madara': Okay it's epic to read about Naruto fighting Uchiha Madara, but at this point there really is little evidence as to who Tobi really is. People are fucking stupid in the Naruto world- they're pretty dumb here, too. All of the 'evidence' that points to Tobi being Uchiha Madara comes from Tobi's mouth- even in the flashback sequences. Tobi is not what we would call reliable. His brilliant plan is to use the moon to take control everybody's minds, and you believe him about anything? I know A does, and so does most of the Ninja Alliance- but A is a fanboy that masturbates to pictures of Namikaze Minato while crying about his inadequacy (especially since he lost his favorite fapping hand), and pretty much everyone else has difficulty walking and breathing at the same time.

What evidence we do have is... spotty.

The scenes we've seen Tobi in where he's not really talking about his masterful plan, or has a vested interest in manipulating someone are few and far between. The scenes of relevance that I recall are:

- When Tobi is in a reliquary for the Uchiha. There are lots of urns on the wall, and its certainly implied that body parts are in them. I may be recalling this incorrectly, but I believe he puts Danzo's implanted sharingans into an urn.

- Tobi's fight with Konan: He emphasizes that he has two eyes. Then he implants Nagato's eye (by himself! That is ridiculously hard core), implying that he has experience surgically grafting dead tissue onto his body.

- Tobi's bizarre annoyance/'sempai' thing with Diedara

- When Tobi's Sharingan is revealed, he says something about how its "a power not seen since Madara's time!"

The only other relevant information that could lead to Tobi's identity, is that his ability is shared (though not to the same level of mastery) with Kakashi post timeskip. The missing link to the puzzle, I think, is what happens with Sasuke's eyes. If he can manifest the same abilities as Kakashi and Tobi, then it's about the implanted Sharingan, and Tobi could be just about anybody. If he does something different... well. That would pretty much cement it as Uchiha Obito's eye in Tobi's head, wouldn't it?

 

Well obviously Itachi said he was Madara and planted an Amateratsu in Sasuke's eye incase he ever saw his face so that he would die. Secondly Uchiha Obito's eye was crushed by a giant rock, he gave the one that wasn't crushed to Kakashi. Since Itachi must have seen his face to plant that Amateratsu is Sasuke's eye I am pretty sure he would know how one of the founders of the Konoha would look.

 

First, Why the fuck would Itachi know anything? Itachi has never seen Obito, Madara, or any of the other candidates in person. As for him knowing what one of the Founders of Konoha would look like, I'm pretty sure that he would have only seen artist interpretations of Madara. To my knowledge there are no photographs of Madara, because photos are a relatively recent advance in the Naruto world. So basically, we have Itachi proving that he is just as easily fooled as everyone else, because he has no relevant information. Also, I'm pretty sure that it was triggered by Tobi's Sharingan, not his face. Perhaps it is only triggered by an exposed Mangekyo Sharingan?

Second, have you forgotten the first rule of defeating cliche villains? 'They're not dead until you've seen the body.' Hell, people survive collapses all the time. It's not unbelievable that a super-human would be able to live through the collapse. Hell, Tobi could just be some crazy fuck who stumbled upon Obito's body and grabbed his eye- we don't know enough to prove anything about his identity one way or another.

 

ASmallBundleOfToothpicks
I agree with you about "Madara" aka Tobi, we know all shit who really he is. It's really Obito, Madara, Izuna with implanted eyes or some other Uchiha. I wrote Uchiha beacuse, I do not think it possible to master Sharingan to his degree with out Uchiha blood (Kakashi level is high as transplant, but overall not so much - 5 minutes or 2 sharingan technique are his limits).
Edo Tensei told by Kabuto made it the most powerful technique created. It's lie and "Tobi" knows it too. If technique was relly that powerful, Kabuto wouldn't play with negotiating with Madara, describing his technique. He would just attack him and Sasuke, using first 6 resurrected (5 aktutski members and 6th mysterius coffin). All in all Sasuke's sharingan is his goal. Maybe altough he can summon more than Orochimaru and 2nd, his summons are weaker (they have fault that they can rebel ), but maybe they have more negatives.

 

Son_of_whirlpool. Mind you, it's not awesome, there is super!Naruto and Hinata and the amount of OCs hurts my brain but it could enter the guilty pleasure category.


Abut Madara: Are we seriously discussing Madara's identity? We are nearing the end of Naruto, we know who Madara is. He is Uchiha Madara, end of story. I seriously doubt that Kishi would go into another identity arc with the endgame already in progress.
Obito as Madara is more than ridiculous, it's stupid.

 

The day Madara/Tobi is revealed to be the secret alter ego of Obito is the day Kishimoto is revealed to be the secret alter ego of Kubo.

Also, I'm happy for ya'll and I'mma let you finish but Sarutobi was the strongest kage of all time. OF ALL TIME (Source: Iruka)

And his hobby was chatting up young girls, haters gonna hate.

 

HAHAHAHAHHAHA Because of course Iruka says so, meaning it is the truth.

 

... Maybe we should have a sarcasm emote?

 

It was a joke /facepalm and if you didn't realize I guess we do need one

 

Well, this is the top ten list from the Naruto Databook.

1.Rikudō Sennin
2.Uchiha Madara
3.Uzumaki Naruto
4.Uchiha Sasuke
5.Rikudō's Sons
6.Kabuto Yakushi
7.Nagato/Pein/Pain
8.Sarutobi Hiruzen
9.Namikaze Minato
10.Senju Hashirama

Dunno how true it is, but it's from the databook o,o.

Anyways, here's a cliche, Naruto showing interest in planting because of the few pots he has in his house, which leads to hooking up with Ino because she loves somebody that gardens.

 

I would love to see a battle between Sasuke and Minato. Methinks that skill-gap isn't as large as the databook makes it out to be. Quite the opposite, I'd wager.

 

tragicmat1
Where you found that? I do not see it in any of databooks...

 

Actually, this is probably the best evidence that Tobi = Obito.

Seriously.

 

WTF, ITACHI ISN'T IN THE TOP 10. That list is fake

 

Truth.


10char

 

To be fair, Itachi isn't stronger than any of the ninja on that list, with the possible, but unlikely, exception of Kabuto and Sasuke.