There isn't much you can do to harass sion. You have to kill him pre 6 or gank him hard. Yorick is pretty useless outside of laning phase because his one contribution to the team is being able to ghost the carry which means his usefulness is completely dependent on the carry's usefulness.

AD sion outside of the laning phase is pretty horrid too because he needs to be autoattacking to be useful but he doesn't have poppy/olaf/tryndamere/yi ults. And even with those ults, you don't see those characters all that often. For that reason he can be chain CCd pretty easily and shut down very hard by AD carries like Ashe/Cait/Kog/Trist (carries who can outrange his stun).

In that situation you were more or less SoL for winning if the Sion was anywhere near decent because he can outsustain your mana and be invincible to anything except well executed ganks. Had you played a stronger top laner who could cc/burst sion in a gank, you might've been able to shut him down more. It's going into that situation like playing an AP soraka or Lulu top where your hopes for winning the game are all on your AD carry, whereas taking a sion or nasus up there is actually creating a meat wall that also requires the enemy team to use CCs or die to the almighty destructobruiser.

 

You, Krogan, and Middy seem to be missing a key part of Walking's post:

In other words, subject your first time stupidity to randumbs, not your friends that you actually want to keep.

@Deak: Yorick's actually a meh top champ. His entire game is "to shit of be shat on" because there is literally zero in-between. If the enemy scales better and has some sort of early sustain or method to kill ghouls fast, Yorick's SoL.

Nasus has a field-day vs Yorick. Sion gives no shits. Riven doesn't give a single damn about Yorick's harass. Jarvan can kill ghouls rather easily. Lee Sin zips in and out so fast, ghouls can't catch up. Nunu loves your extra consume fodder tat stops him from pushing the lane.

So on and so on. The people Yorick shits on are those that can't wipe out ghouls and have zero sustain, such as Wukong.

I've done it. Depends on timing and target, but Fiora's will almost always lose.

If Yi even gets his Q off for any amount of time during Fiora's, hers is auto-canceled. Even if Yi fails, he can just use Meditate to lol at Fiora.

 

Oh man, in other words if for some odd reason Yi is at top lane, he could Alpha strike some minions too. About as hard of a counter as it can get.

Although, the situation I thought of still could occur. For example, in a team fight if Fiora uses her ult on somebody else (not Yi), but Yi still uses Alpha strike on her.

 

Funny thing, during Wukong free week I beat a Yorick pretty handily despite ghoul harass. Just sat and farmed under tower until 6 then burst him out with E-Q-W. Must not have been a very good Yorick I suppose.

 

You realize that the other 3 ADs hyper carries all hard-counter Fiora, right?

Jax is bulky as fuck and can Dodge all of Fiora's ulti/autos.

Yi can use Meditate, Alpha Strike, or a Randuin's + Meditate trick to royally screw Fiora over.

Trynd gives no shits about damage with his ulti up and his W lowers AD by a huge massive amount.

 

Yep, and it's why Fiora is not op.

With Yorick, Wukong actually does fairly well against Yorick if only because he can burst him down with a gank. Wukong, Renekton, Riven, Shyv, Jax are all champs that can probably kill a Yorick in lane. (Wukong can decoy away from ghouls too).

Anyways, despite what I said before about Nasus beating Yorick (Using Siphoning Strike on Ghouls, also he has to take a few hits since ghouls won't die immediately to his Q if he hits at full health), he doesn't really beat Yorick in lane and Yorick can still deny him farm (Siphoning on Ghouls means no gold). Early sustain doesn't matter as much against Yorick, as there are very few champions that can match him in sustain early on (Maybe Vlad, Cho Gath, Udyr, Lee Sin, Nidalee).

Also, while Yorick scales pretty badly into late game, his ultimate makes up for it. 75% percent of the damage of the person you clone is pretty significant when used on an AD carry. This, of course, means you must have a strong AD carry.

Either way, against the normal top champions, Yorick is pretty strong. Strong Harass, and blocks off early farm. Naturally, this advantage diminishes as the champions gets tankier and their ultimate, so it's a how much can you abuse your harass while still getting all your cs (if you are harassing, making their cs bad, but not maintaining your own, then you're not doing that much better and will probably lose lane).

 

Personally, i still hate her because i dont play the other melee hyper carries. and in response to the Jax shutting her down, is there any champion he can't shutdown? he is personally one of my favorite champions and i love being able to win almost any 1v1 with him. though i dont play him as much as i would like.

 

A good numer of champs shit on Jax, if they know what to do.

Cassiopea, Ryze, Teemo, Veigar, Kass, WW, Tryndamere, Fizz, Kayle, Heimerdinger (Build-based), Lee Sin (Location-based), Nautilus/Leona/Lulu/Janna (By way of CC shut-down for their team), Malzahar, Poppy, Nasus, Singed, Morgana, Malphite

And these are just the more obvious ones that have a kit that can go toe-to-toe with Jax and secure victory at equal farm.

 

Very True. recently ive been using a more tanky build on him due to the fact that as long as you can survive the initial CC and burst you pretty much have them in a corner. mostly due to me having Hextech Gunblade and lifestealing/Spellvamping a chunk of health back from everything i do. the onl yone i really have trouble with is trynd, just because... well because he is tryndamere.

 

You don't get it. Out of all the champs I listed, the only one who doesn't have an OHKO combo that works vs all champs, has enough of CC to keep the fight on equal grounds, or has the ability to consistently stay alive long enough for support, is Morgana and that's only because her Q has such an insane CD.

Other than her, all the other champs I listed can avoid, survive, or fight Jax well enough to win, escape, or get back-up.

Cassi can kite for days and use Ulti as a tide-turner.

Veigar, Malz, and AP Poppy can all One-combo Jax.

Ryze, Teemo, Kass, Heimerdinger, Lulu, and Janna all have ways to out-maneuver Jax if he tries to rush for them, with all but Lulu and Janna able to easily secure kills.

Tryndamere, Kayle, and AD/Hybrid Poppy can weather whatever Jax launches at them and beat him straight-up if they survive past first counter-strike, which isn't hard to do.

Singed, Malphite, Nasus, and Lee Sin all take huge dumps on Jax with their slows and ability to either constantly stay just out of range or slow him so much, he's as fast as molasses.

Naut and Leona just perma-lock Jax.

The only things that ever break these chains are QSS and Cleanse, and very few Jaxes run those.

 

Okay, now i know what you mean, and you're very right. However I am lucky enough to go against players who usually do not always know what they're doing against jax!

With Cassi i tend to never engage on her.

Veig, Malz, and AP poppy can one-combo me if i dont go high enough MR.

Tryndamere is just OP, with Kayle i just poke her constantly until i can go in for kill and outlast her ulti, and Poppy does destroy me.

The tanks/Bruisers are supposed to do that to everyone but the only ones i have a hard time with always is Singed and Malphite.

Naut and Leona, i just dont engage on unless im super fed.

I see what you are saying but a lot of that relies on me going all Gung-ho and not having any tactics.
True a lot of them shit on Jax but im not going to go all out on most champs without some sort of escape or back-up.

And when all else fails... bring in the garen for a Spin-to-win

 

It's pretty easy to beat a Singed, if you know what you're doing. Put enough CC on him that he's locked in place or, better yet, suppressed (Warwick is pro for this). If he gets ahead of you, don't try to secure the kill unless your flash is up, because otherwise you're going to be eating poison and making yourself easier to kill when one of their team shows up to shit on you or save Singed.

Also, Malphite is incredibly easy to kill, for nearly the exact same reasons. Same with all tanks, really. They get armor, you get a Last Whisper or Black Cleaver, depending on who you're playing as. Or both, if you feel like ripping him in half. If you're up against a Mundo tank, who just builds shit-loads of HP with some Magic Resist and some armor, get yourself a Bloodrazor. Again, you're ripping him in half, because Bloodrazor's passive is OP as shit against (insert tank here).

I'm still struggling with when and how to change up my item builds, but I'm starting to get the hang of it, even if it's going to take playing with some randumbs to do it.

 

Been getting crushed by Vladimir top lane, he's been in the last two or three ranked games I played.

I can handle him early while Transfusion still sucks, but as soon as he goes back to buy a Hextech Revolver that lane is lost. If I take a melee, I'm either zoned out of XP range or eating Transfusion spam while I fight my turret for CS. If I take a mana user, the same thing happens except I'm also run OOM trying to nuke waves down. Jungle ganks barely help because even though I'm sitting under my tower and Vlad is pushed right up against it, he can easily escape with Sanguine Pool. And they all run Heal/Ghost.

 

you stunlock him

 

You can win any lane by building correctly. If you are vs a vlad who will likely destroy you once he does get that hextech, then you build to counter that. Assuming he starts boots, he needs 1200g to get his revolver. So when he goes back, you grab two more creeps for 1250g and then go back. If you are playing an autoattacking champ that can make use of lifesteal, buy null magicx2+ vamp scepter. This gives you sustain and will put you near 100 MR. The mantles get turned into hexdrinker/maw and merc treads. If he is still pushing you out of lane, you grab a negatron cloak after. You should be able to outsustain him with 150+mr. Generally though, its after they get that hextech that they think they can beat you and they try to go aggressive. If you played passively earlier on, it's pretty easy to kill them at this point. And once you are ahead, it's pretty hard to get behind.

Playing other top laners who don't have the ability to sustain from vamp scepter (nautilus, malph, singed), grab a philo+null magic or philo+a ton of potions. Tanks have a pretty easy time countering vlad by just grabbing early MR which becomes later tank items while AD casters and bruisers have a pretty easy time as well because there are a few pretty good items that make use of NMM. I end up doing the same thing on Fizz (first buy=2xNMM) quite often because they can become boots/lichbane/GA.

If you think you can fit any of these into your character's build and not be crippled in the early game, it's the smartest way to buy:
Hexdrinker
Wits End
Spirit Visage
Merc Treads
Aegis of the Legion
Chalice of Harmony

Or if you think you can make use of a GA or Lichbane in the mid-late game, then buying early NMM vs vlad is pretty amazing.

Otherwise, spend 740g to get the same MR for a negatron cloak. Just keep in mind that the Negatron only turns into BV/FoN/QSS/Abyssal, which don't work quite as well for a lot of top laners.

If you know you are fighting a vlad in draft mode, you can switch your runes out to scaling MR (which is pretty good considering Vlad's power really does scale up while being weak early).

 

God I hate playing against a good Warwick as Singed. I was solo topping against a ap ww the other day... He out sustained me like crazy and would use his ulti only to keep me from getting away from ganks >.>

 

Well, if anything, Warwick is probably one of the few champions that can kill singed with relative ease if he gets a gank. Otherwise, most of the time it's just a farm all day lane if the Singed knows what he's doing.

InB4 people say you can kill Singed early levels. I know.

 

Yeah thats a good idea, i need to start doing that more. I'm just wondering, as a solo top, do you counter your lane first then build to counter their team? I think the reason i have been having trouble is because im sticking to one specific build for every game.

 

It really depends on which champion you are using tbh. If it's somebody that requires farm, or just have a weak early game in general, then you will probably have to counter your lane. How hard you counter varies, (Is Wriggles enough, or will you need even more armor, etc). Other champs, like Vlad and Kennen, basically goes Hextech every game without fail. General rule of thumb, if you can't get your farm due to harass, then counter your lane. If you can farm just fine with no problem and can even harass the other player, then just go for your optimal build. (Sometimes you have to like pre-counter, if you know after, say a Vlad get's a hextech, you will get harassed a lot more).

 

You don't build to counter your lane unless you can't beat them with a standard build. For instance, malphite doesn't need to rush armor vs tryndamere because his E/W already make him a hard counter. So if he is facing morg mid/fiddle jungler/sona+corki bot, he should invest in MR pretty quickly.

But if you don't win the lane match up, grabbing a quick armor/mr item is how you come back. You can't take a wukong vs warwick and expect to win by building standard. Building wriggles or triforce isn't going to win the lane vs the glacial shroud WW, it's just going to get you pushed out or slowly bled to death. And when you are bled to death, the damage or armor or mr you built to counter the rest of the enemy team won't mean shit on a top lane who is behind on kills/cs/farm/exp.

Vlad is going to start shitting on you somewhere between 6 and 9. You coming back with some wriggles components and potions isn't going to stop him from shitting on you, it's going to let him shit on you extra hard. If you come back with an extra 48 mr, putting you somewhere between 78 and 110 total, you can ignore a large portion of his damage, sustain from potions or vamp scepter, and farm. And if you farm well and win the lane (or even get a kill) then you have all the extra gold you need to build to counter the rest of that opponents team.