Just finished the livestream. To avoid spoilers for those of you who have to wait until it's on youtube, I will restrain my comments to:

HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME!

 

Agreed, I've had this on repeat for about half an hour now.

 

I still don't see the point in making Cadence an alicorn. Would have worked just as well if she were a unicorn like Prince Blueblood, and wouldn't fuck up everyone's headcanons regarding alicorns as much. And pulling both Shining Armor and Cadence out of nowhere at the start was more than a litttle jarring. If they had an episode in the season setting the two of them up it would've worked a lot better.

Celestia went down too easily in the "fight" with the Changeling queen, which was also a little too DBZ for my tastes. And where the hell was Luna in that entire segment?

But despite that, it was a pretty good end to the season.

 

Anything that ruins "Head Canon" is lovely to me. Man, I hate that phrase.


Still haven't managed to watch the new episode. Too busy today, bleh. Ponies must come later.

 

Well, the fact that Cadence showed no indications of having the godlike-powers Celestia and Luna have should keep the fanon on them from taking too much damage. From everything we saw, Cadence is pretty much just an ordinary pony who happens to have both wings and a horn. That does tie right back into the whole "Why make her alicorn?" issue though.

My personal explanation would be that she's busy fighting off hordes of changelings and getting most of civilian populace to safety.

 

Then allow me to rephrase that for you: the writers' ideas for alicorns suck diseased cock, and I've seen much better fanon interpretations. Actually I think my favorite was already brought up further back in the thread. It's a comic by CrappyUnicorn.

You'd think she'd be at her niece's wedding. Unless she's strictly nocturnal, but then Celestia isn't strictly diurnal so that wouldn't make sense. I suppose what you have is as good an explanation as any other.

Speaking of which, I don't recall them making any reference to Cadence and Celestia/Luna being related at all.

 

Link to the episode

That does remind of an unfinished one-shot I've got that involves Celestia trying to do PR damage control with a Luna's whose medievalness got dialed up to eleven. It involved things like Luna sentencing ponies to a week in the stocks for things that had been legalized 500 years ago, appointing ponies to offices that Celestia got rid of 700 years ago, and a whole lot of "the government/society doesn't work that way any more, Luna."

Plus it would poke fun at the old plot of Luna/Celestia disguising themselves as ordinary ponies to mingle with the commonfolk by having Luna go in disguise, but still use the TRADITIONAL ROYAL CANTERLOT VOICE (sadly lacking in the finale) and otherwise making her disguise very, very transparent.

 

It's in Part 1's episode description. [Paraphrased]; "Twilight and friends are invited to her brother's wedding with Celestia's niece." Or something along those lines.

On the subject of Chengar's one-shot, I'd read it, both because Chengar is pretty awesome at Pony fiction, but also because I'm pretty hard-up for decent Princess fics. The closest one I've found is the one where Celestia is Scootaloo's mom, but that's more or less a guilty pleasure.

 

Okay, overall, pretty awesome episode(s) but it could have easily been so much better.

Spoiler

Agree on the Alicorn issue, why make the princess one? It didn't really serve any purpose and just made things more confusing. I was fine with Luna and Celestia being the only ones. (or maybe just have the "leader" of the different factions be alicorns, didn't mind the changeling queen being an alicorn). Just felt pointless.

The brother should have definitely been mentioned earlier. Seeing that the main cast didn't look surprised at all that Twilight even had a brother, made me feel as if we had missed an episode somewhere. The alicorn just appearing now made sense. Otherwise, her completely new behavior would have made it even more obvious that there was an impostor.

Kind of a few minor inconsistencies, like, why didn't Twilight simply teleport back up? Didn't seem that much farther than she usually teleports. Also, I was expecting a sonic rainboom during the fight.

Same with Luna, didn't make much sense that she was missing during that crisis, the very crisis they were waiting and preparing for. Maybe build up for another "luna goes bad" plot or simply lazy writing?

Why was Twilight's brother the only one to use that spell? Never really explained. Is his special talent a shield that keeps changlings out?

Also, the feeding issue, the whole of equastria was fair game for them. Only Canterlot was shielded, they could have easily gone somewhere else and no one would have been any wiser, just seemed to be lacking motivation

About the Celestia went down too easily issue, yeah, kind of, at the very least, i expected a better fight and not simply one beam pushing thingy.

But overall, really enjoyed this. It had great atmosphere and I kind of expected that the third season we would see equestria at war xD Little touches like the DJ, the party cannon with the cool sound were great touches. Songs were pretty enjoyable. The effect where only the eyes were left visible looked really good too.

Yeah, great set of episodes, felt a lot more like a movie and I had a blast watching it, really loved it. Just sad though, it could have been a lot better with just a few tweaks. Maybe I am expecting too much, seeing its original target audience is not that keen on detail. Still, lot of fun.

And is it me, or was the animation better? Sound, animation, everything felt more movie-esque.

 

Here's an idea for why Luna didn't show up. Perhaps she is punishing herself. Or, perhaps the two princesses are once more sharing the duties of day and night. To head off comments about Celestia being out and about at night for (insert occasion here), I'll just say that it's not unheard of for people to adjust their schedules for an occasion.

Millions of people across the world adjust their schedules to celebrate the new year, even if they have to work the next morning. Why can't Celestia do the same?

 

This is why I like MLP. In every other show Cadence would have died at the end of the episode. Good endings FTW.

I agree that we should have heard about the brother before. And that making Cadence and alicorn was unnecessary. But it was still a very good episode.

By the way, has anyone else thought of Priori Incantatem during the Celestia vs. Changeling Princess fight?

 

Yeah, but IIRC nothing was said in the actual show. In fact, Celestia and Luna really didn't interact with Cadence much at all, which is kind of odd considering how they're supposed to be related.

You know, there's really no reason for Cadence to be a princess or an alicorn. She could easily have some other noble title and it wouldn't have changed much.

Speaking of which, I've been working on this "Ideal Pony-verse" document for a few weeks now, detailing all these changes I'd make to MLP if I were in charge. Among other things, I've put down that Blueblood would remain a Duke like Faust wanted (since him being related to Celestia and Luna makes for a convoluted family tree), and Cadence would be a unicorn Duchess or something. Maybe they'd both be related to the old unicorn royalty from the Hearth's Warming Eve story. If I ever write an MLP fanfic, I'll be drawing from this instead of canon.

 

You are aware of the fact that Celestia and Luna are 1000+ years old, right? In that time, regardless of the fact that this is a children's show, it is more than possible for them to have children. Hell, it's also possible that whatever being created them (be it Pony-God or their parents) decided to make more Princesses, and all of this happened off-screen.

Furthermore, royal families are notoriously large. The term "Heir and a Spare" was quite literal. Hell, it wasn't uncommon for royal families to have four or more children, and this applied to everything from kings to dukes to lords to local land-holders. Celestia may be the Sun Goddess, but I doubt she'd have time for every single member of her family, what with taking care of the Sun, and then presiding over Equestria as its Queen. You know, insignificant stuff like that. Totally not as important as one family member getting married.

That's the problem, we don't know. You can make leaps of logic based on what information the show gives and what people say in interviews, but that can only take you so far. Just for reference, the above was one of those leaps of logic.

The facts are this. Blueblood is related to Celestia, and so is Cadence.

This image is relevant to this discussion.



EDIT: And another thing, this "Ideal MLP" document you've been working on. I can easily assume that it fills in plot-holes and/or fixes things for better flow. That's all fine and dandy, but saying that you're going to use that as your canon instead of the actual show is asinine and narcissistic, to say the very least. Yes, Ponyville is notorious for bitching about Harry Potter's canon, but we didn't establish our own little variant of canon and say "Fuck the books, this is right, and we're going to go with this." Fact is, if you're going to fix something that you think is "wrong" with the canon, you fucking write a fic and do it.

I'm going to go ahead and give your fic a tentative thumbs-down, because if you've been working on this "Ideal MLP" document for weeks, then that means that you're planning a divergence pretty early on in the series, which reeks of bad Indy fic. I'd rather say goodbye to 2007, not welcome it back.

Again, please see the image.

 

Though it's worth mentioning that we do have word of Faust on the blood relations being very distant and way back in the family tree, rather than Blueblood or Cadence being direct descendants of Luna or Celestia.

Then again, Cadence being an alicorn was a change made after Faust left the show, so it's possible that the current showrunners changed her level of blood relation to Clestia and Luna as well.

Personally I'm not bothered by it, because Cadence just seemed like an ordinary pony that happened to have wings and a horn, rather than having the godlike powers of Celestia and Luna. If the action in the episode is anything to go by, Twilight was a lot more magically powerful than the real Cadence.

 

I didn't know she left, I thought she'd simply stepped down to a position with less responsibility.

 

Headcanon is a perfectly acceptable practice in the fandom, but it is a bit much to label your own version of it 'ideal'.

Re: the relatives - Celestia and Luna are meant to embody the traits of all three pony subspecies, right? Well, maybe their 'lesser' relatives are just two of the three. Blueblood is unicorn/earth and Cadence is unicorn/pegasus. Absolutely nothing to back it up except that it's a moderately elegant way to tie it all together.

 

... Yeah.

I'm missing something here. Where did I say that Blueblood and Cadence weren't related to Celestia in the show? I acknowledge that. What I'm saying is that I think it's stupid and unnecessary, and I'll change it if I ever take the opportunity to write a MLP fanfic. That shouldn't need repeating.

It really isn't. If I wanted to just "deal with it" when I saw things I didn't like in fiction, I wouldn't have over a thousand posts on a fanfiction forum.

As for the rest: for the record, Word of Faust clearly says that Celestia and Luna don't have children and don't have any more siblings. So yes, we do in fact know.

And I swear I want to punch the guy who first started referring to Celestia and Luna as goddesses. They're a grade above the rest in terms of magical power, yes, but it's an extreme stretch god-like. Hell, they said that the unicorns used to raise the sun and moon before the Royal Sisters came around in Hearth's Warming Eve, and that doesn't make them gods does it?

EDIT: Goddamn ninjas.

 

Emphasis mine.

Congratulations, you missed the point of the image macro.

Huh. Something on a DeviantArt page from the show's creator. It's odd that I missed that, except for the fact that DeviantArt is full of shitty art, to the point that Sturgeon's Law is stressed near to breaking. I'm sorry if I don't trot on over there when I feel like it, because I'd rather save my eyes from the raping of the word "art".

Actually, it does. The fact that they're still alive and kicking after over one thousand years implies at the very least immortality, or longevity to the point of being near enough to it to be called so (such as a vampire).

Further, they raise the Sun and Moon single-handed (in Celestia's case she did both for quite a while), and you honestly think that they shouldn't be revered?

This is a society that is very similar to Naruto (I cringe to make the comparison), in the sole respect that it is technologically advanced while simultaneously remaining archaic and backwards. They have steam trains, but still have horse-drawn carriages. The Apple Family bucks Sweet Apple Acres themselves, rather than hiring outside help. Winter Wrap Up is a communist endeavor, where everyone has a purpose.

Magic exists, yes, but with the sole exception of Twilight Sparkle, everyone's magic works only around their special skill, with some gray area for leeway and probably incredibly simple things (such as Rarity pulling the blinds on the train's windows).

Nightmare Moon was created out of Luna's loneliness at the most base. She was lonely because everyone slept at night and got everything done during the day. You're telling me they shouldn't revere the one Alicorn who has the power to raise and lower the sun at her will?

 

The Duke/Duchess thing was in reference to the fanon outline I was constructing. I never said that was canon. At the time I thought the distinction was clear.

The word "art" doesn't have much worth anyway. And how is your opinion on the site relevant at all? Who cares where the information comes from?

Revered, yes, undoubtedly. But as a goddess, no. That term just seems way too loaded, and implies greater powers (omniscience, namely) that Celestia just doesn't have. I'd think that if she were a goddess, she wouldn't have gone down nearly so easily against the Changeling queen in the finale.

EDIT:

On the edit to your previous post:

Before I've even started writing one. Classy.

Every couple of days I add a short paragraph detailing my thoughts on things like MLP magic, the aforementioned Blueblood/Cadence relation-to-Celestia thing and Equestrian history onto a Word document. I've been doing it for roughly two weeks, and what I have amounts to two and a half pages with liberal spacing, some rambling and poor organization. The document actually doesn't have "ideal" anywhere in it (it's literally titled "MLP Stuff"), so don't get so hung up on that word that I chose with maybe half a second's thought.

I haven't planned anything.

We're not talking about Harry Potter, remember? And for the third time, in case it's escaped you still, I haven't written anything yet. And considering my writing track record so far, it'll be a miracle if I write anything at all.