Re-read the bit on Cheering charms in canon. What you're referring to is a badly cast cheering charm. A properly cast one doesn't send you giddy.

It's a good thing that Harry has the kind of skill with magic only seen once every hundred years or so, then. Although, given that every student was using it in OotP to protect against dung bombs, it doesn't sound too difficult to cast. Also not sure what time has to do with anything in this matter - especially as it's only an hour.

We don't know how long they last. Long enough, I should imagine. And if not: just take a few with you and drink it again. It would help with balancing in so far as balancing takes strength. Balancing underwater isn't so hard, other than that. Inner ear means you know which way is down. Yes, potions are legal in the second task. In fact, everything was legal. Would Harry think ahead? You're joking right? Have you read this story?

Lumos would help.

We don't know exactly how the supersensory charm works. Maybe it enhances your current sense (which would help a lot) but I think, from the fact that Ron used it to pass his driving test, it rather gives you an awareness of your surroundings that doesn't come from your physical senses. If it just enhanced your senses, this wouldn't really help with driving. How long does it last? Well, UK driving tests are at least an hour long, so at least that.

You're assuming that a heating charm works like a battery and that it has a fixed amount of warmth to give out. How about it works like this: you cast a heat charm on something. It makes it warm. It stays warm until you remove the charm.

You know from the clue that the merepeople are taking something from you. Not being an idiot, you decide to read up on Merpeople, and find the location of their village in Hogwarts A History. You then use the point me charm like a compass to make sure you're heading in the right direction.

Spells are only less powerful non-verbally if you're bad at non-verbal casting. If you're good at it, they're just as good. Dumbledore, Voldemort, Snape... all use non-verbal casting for the most important tasks.

Harry has cast silently under stress many times, so we know he can do it well.

What battle? The worst things you'd come across in the lake are Grindylows. 1. Grindylows are pretty weak. 2. You could easily avoid them by not hanging around the weeds at the bottom of the lake 3. If you did run into them, you'd know they were coming because of your supersensory charm.

Oh, so now canon is important is it? But yes, there was no such spell mentioned in canon. Not so sure about these vague "negative effects" you talk about though.

There are two separate issues here.

1. Are these tasks laughable? Yes, and not just for superwizards, but for any wizard of competence. The point is magic makes almost all natural obstacles trivial. Heat and cold, pressure and force, chemical reactions, etc. - magic has mastery over all of these things. Magic has limits, yes. All magic is fallible. But the limits of magic are themselves magical. "The problem is the other side has magic too."

2. Is Harry a super wizard? Yes, insofar as he's in the top 4 most talented wizards in Europe, if not the world. He has yet to extend his knowledge as far as the others because of his age, but those things he does know he has mastered to a degree most wizards never even dream of. And his knowledge is already more extensive than most qualified wizards.

This doesn't make him god!Harry like some really bad cliched shooting purple energy balls from his palms fic. He's a "super wizard" in exactly the same way we already know there are some wizards who are just meteorically better at magic than others. It's nothing more than that: being more skilled. The whole fic is all about Harry being like a young Dumbledore/Grindelwald/Voldemort.

You have an odd fixation with manoeuvrability. This isn't synchronised swimming. 99.9% of the task is swimming in a straight line. Those parts that aren't swimming in a straight line are treading water.

Edit: anyway, done with this argument now. It's retarded, wasting my time that could have been spent writing, and your avatar doesn't give me confidence that you're discussing this in good faith lol.

 

The point of the tasks Cer is how you choose to solve them, everyone is expected to succeed, that's why there are points, they rate how well your chosen method handles the somewhat difficult challenges ahead.

 

What all spells did we see used in the water. This the only that I know he used in the book.
Relashio ~
This charm can be used to force someone or something to release what they're holding. Underwater, shooting hot bursts of water can be seen. Our of water, it looks like sparks. It causes victims of this charm to simply release whatever they are holding at the time. Harry used this against the Grindylows in the second task of the Triwizard Tournament.

Looks like a point blank range spell to me. What specs and how it reacts to matter would seem to be on a per spell bases. Some spells appear to be solid others are not. I would say their are spells that are designed to function flawlessly in water, but I'm also saying that their others that wouldn't, in fact I'm saying some could be quite deadly to the user under water. Imagine a blasting curse that reacts to the solids. Water at high pressure, especially if your hitting at a high velocity, becomes rather solid. Relatively speaking of course as water is a liquid its more about resistance and moving mass, but you get the idea. The spell would blow up in your face. Spells not designed to deal with water would function erratically when cast.

 

Sorry to go off topic and a little personal, but for the sake of my sanity please take a few minutes to study this: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They're

I appreciate you might be foreign but its still worth learning (it is incredibly simple).

 

When Harry used Relashio underwater, the books specifically stated that the spell's function remained completely unchanged, despite the change in form. In fact, it seems almost as if the change in form happens in order to achieve the constance in function.

You will also note that it said nothing about the spell sinking.

 

Description: Causes the person upon whom the spell was cast to become happy and contented, though heavy-handedness with the spell may cause the person to break into an uncontrollable laughing fit.

Nothing about that description tells me its a good idea to use during battle. Also it says nothing of keeping a person calm only cheery. You would still be a terrified ball of nerves...only you would be cheery.

I'm not saying their isn't a battle mindset spell or something, but this is what you listed because he would know this.

Casting a spell to prevent having to smell something is different than casting a spell to keep you alive under the water for an hour. Stress and power really. Never said it couldn't be done only that it is stressful.

Your trusting long enough? Beyond that it doesn't have any reference to stamina only strength. Never explicitly stated the effects.

Visabllity in an old lake is very low. Unlike the movies, its rather muddy and dark. Lumos could light the way, but visibility is only so far. Enhancing your senses really wouldn't help underwater. If it does give you some other senses than that wouldn't help with a driving test. In fact being given senses your not use to could really fuck up a driving test or really any thing you were trying to do.

Santi said that the warming charms didn't fully work in Durmstrang. Take that for what you will, but that tells me that the colder it is the less effective it is or that it wears off under pressure.

It would be a good place to start, but their are no guarantees. You only know because you read the book. Given wizarding culture do you think Harry really thinks the Headmaster handed wizards to the merpeople or hid them himself at the bottom of the lack in different areas. We know the truth of course but the logic of Harry in this situation would be counter intuitive.

They are weaker. If your skilled you can lessen the affect and if your powerful enough it won't even be noticed. They were casting silent to prevent the others from knowing what they were casting not because it was the same power. When ever someone cast something really powerful they have a habit of screaming out the words.

Have we seen him cast under the current circumstance of the second task? If not than we don't know.

Are you assuming just because Harry and the others didn't run into anything dangerous their isn't anything down there. Your thinking that Harry has your knowledge of what going on and whats down there. He doesn't. I suppose he could read up on it though.

Going really fast in cold water will cool you down much faster. Depending on how heating charms work depends on how this affects you. Beyond that going really fast under water wouldn't feel very good on your head and shoulders. It would fatigue you with out a shielding charm or something.

The task aren't laughable. Magic does have a mastery over all these things, but do you have a mastery of magic? Can you instantly control it and make it do your will with out any problems. I mean hell are incantations, wand movements, and spells in general just trivial things. Shouldn't you just will your magic to everything and just skip all that. Why are wizard not truly godlike beings. The reason is it takes a lot to control magic and to make it do all that you want. It takes a great deal of focus control and magic to pull a lot of things off. With enough planning sure you can make just about anything trivial, but on the fly its fucking hard.

The top four most talented wizards in Europe, if not the world. Really? Powerful? Yes. Prodigy? Yes. On his way to greatness? Yes. One of the top four wizards in the world? NO! Will someday be in the top four? Yes.

Neither one of those people you mention laugh in the face of dragons.

You really aren't getting this. It's not about swimming, its about being able to cast and fire at an enemy mostly likely multiple times while keeping yourself in a good firing position. That is really fucking hard. Get in the pool dive to the deep end and have some imaginary duels. Don't let your feet touch the ground and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I used bullets being fired under water as an example as to why spell wouldn't go straight and would lose energy.
I used gravity as a separate example to say the spell are effect by natural forces such as gravity and mass. I agree that the reason drop is because of gravity and don't dispute this.

Things under water are under the weight of water. Hence pressure. So somewhere their is pressure. Can't really not mangled physics when talking to people who don't know physics or in Harry Potter discussion.

I will endeavor to remember this. Ease of typing though goes way down.

I don't remember it saying any of that. More to the fact he casted literally point blank. If I shot someone in the head 2 feet away under water there would be no noticeable change from doing the same on land. Now if you moved the person back say 5 or 10 feet than there would be a noticeable effect. Mostly likely the same with any spell not designed to function under water.

 

Simple Thermodynamics lesson: Heat + Energy = More Heat
Simple Magic lesson: Magic + Energy = Magic
Therefore, Simple Math lesson: Magic = Heat.

 

And you know that how? There are lakes with over 40m visibility underwater.

Maybe the castle had a special ward to be less inviting, maybe the charm warms you only a fixed number of Kelvins (air temperature at Durmstrang at winter could be as low as -40°C and its bound to be 4°C for the lake), maybe Harry would use a variation of the spell, maybe there are warming charms for swimmers. Just because the first thing that comes to your head doesn't fit, it doesn't mean that the whole idea is implausible.

Really? Care to prove it with canon quotes?

I'll quote Taure here: are we even reading the same story? This Harry isn't a lazy fuck who waits until the last moment for the solution to his problem to magically appear.

Do read up on the definition of the word "talent"

What's the connection here? Are thoughts affected by gravity as well? The only magical things we see underwater are the egg, Myrtle and the Relashio spell. Is any of those affected by being underwater? (no)

Just swap all occurrences of "your" with "you're" and you'll be already more correct. Reading your posts is painful and it's difficult to take you seriously if you can't even spell basic words properly.

 

We're talking about a lake in Ireland. Now I couldn't say for sure, it's pure speculation, but I bet there aren't not many lakes with 49m visibility in Ireland. Especially when you factor fish, clay, and large lake creatures the water gets murky.

I believe he was outside the of Durmstrang when he arrived and therefore outside of the wards. Besides Taure mentioned Owl level spells so I assumed standard spells. I'm not saying that the idea of heating charms wouldn't work. In fact I didn't bring it up, Taure did, and in my response to him I gave it to him. Later after he said it was simple Owl level spells could handle the job. I argued that the heating charm we know has obvious limitations that we see in Harry's first arrival at Durmstrang.

This is actually really hard. It would seem that it's mostly fanon. There are several places where it says that it is more difficult to cast. You could argue that the increased difficulty leads to the spell not being as skillfully cast and executed as a verbal spell. Perhaps implied when people yell out the curses when they want them particularly powerful, but that might be fanon as well. I concede on this one.

I'm not saying he's lazy, I'm saying that there are limits to what he can prepare for. Limits to how much he will prepare. Taure talking as if there isn't any real challenge to this at all and I take offense at that.

The basic point was that spells will mostly likely act in a different way under water than they act on the land. Gravity was a side point to a side point. The question really boils down to are spells affected by air resistance? If they are than are spell also effect by water resistance? Of course each spell is different and could very well have different underwater properties.

My entire point was that dueling or fighting underwater is hard. That casting spells while trying to keep yourself steady is nearly impossible. Even after casting the spells they themselves will mostly likely be less power, less accurate, and have far less range.

Does anyone really think that Harry would have been bored with the tasks. That he would have laughed at how easy beating a dragon will be before he faced it. That anyone in the current world thinks that fighting a dragon is a laughable notion because that can just go straight through one like it's nothing?

 

Cenares it is obvious that everyone thinks the tournament is a joke for really talented wizards. Why else would a magical tournament whose participants are oftentimes prodigies have so many deaths? There really is only one answer: the tournament is so very easy that it merely bores them to death.

 

I don't think the participants are "often" prodigies. If prodigies came along so often, they wouldn't be prodigies. Do you think Dumbledore or Voldemort at 14 would have had a serious problem with any of the tasks? Not to mention Dumbledore said that Harry had a better control of his magic than he did at his age.

 

Thought so.

Harry modified the Lumos spell in his first or second year at Durmstrang.

Making sure he can move freely underwater would be on top of that list for, you know, the task that takes place underwater.

That is most likely spell-dependant. The Killing Curse, or Cruciatus seem to be able to go through clothes. Shouldn't they kill/torture said clothes instead of the person wearing them according to your theory?

I still do not see what you're basing that assumption on. It's wouldn't take more than a few hours to get used to being underwater and there are about three months between the first and the second task. Enough time for a couple of swims.

If he thought that the task was about beating a dragon, he probably wouldn't consider it easy. Getting around it, on the other hand? Not that difficult considering his current skill.

 

I'm not arsed reading all of Cenares' bullshit but I did see that he's atlking abotu a lake in Ireland.

You guys are talking about the second task, right? The one in Hogwarts? In Scotland?

 

I think that Albus and Tom could easily have died during these tasks at Harry's age. You guys are all trying to make it seem like these tasks being hard and dangerous is absurd or something. Try imaging a few ways someone could get the egg from the dragon. Then imagine a few ways that method of getting the egg could go wrong.

For example: Tom does an illusion perfectly. The dragon doesn't suspect a thing. It doesn't hear Tom approach. It doesn't see Tom approach. The dragon decides to adjust its position, just because. Suddenly Tom has his illusion broken by a magically resistant creature that is unaware of his presence squishing him. Maybe Tom reacts and manages to get away before he is crushed, but the thing is that this randomly happens. He doesn't know its going to happen because he feels the dragon break the illusion. So when the dragon shifts he just waits, not wanting to panic and break the illusion that he knows is working. And then he just sort of gets squished and dies. And everything he did worked. Because he is brilliant. But it doesn't matter. Because he just got unlucky.

 

Nah, Tom would just try to hit it with a killing curse.

That always seems to work for him, right?

 

His wand breaks and the curse fizzles. The dragon eats him. Why did that happen? One of the other competitors damaged his wand prior to the competition knowing they couldn't beat him on skill alone.

Stop imagining the world in which everything goes right. That isn't a more real potential world it is just a potential world. The world in which Tom decides not to use the killing curse, because he wants to trick Albus into thinking he isn't corrupt is just as likely.

Your not right or smart because you can imagine ways to beat the challenges. Your narrow-minded because you can't see how it is possible to also fail.

 

There are a lot of ways to screw up and die, yes.

Smart people tend not to use those ways.

 

I just realized this argument was started by someone with a troll avatar. My mistake everyone. Nobody has ever died in this tournament while also being competent and therefore any task set before prodigy!Harry is trivial.

 

Don't be an idiot. The point Taure and others are making and that you are missing is that with the story to this point, had Harry managed to enter, it would have made for boring reading as he curbstomps challenges that a canon Harry could handle. The first task is illustrative: "Ooh, dragons! Scary!" Yeah? We saw four different strategies in canon for defeating the dragon, all of which worked with no serious injuries to the contestants. The contest organizers clearly felt that defeating a dragon without preparation was a suitable task for a talented seventeen year old wizard, so it couldn't have been a truly impossible task.

Harry is already regarded as among the very best that Durmstrang ever produced and he has an insatiable drive to prove himself. If the tournament, which he trained for for months, were to pose much of a challenge for him, it would feel contrived, especially in light of canon and the hundreds of year-four tournament stories we've all read. Unless The Santi were going to go well outside of canon and make the challenges far harder (as Shezza did in Denarian Knight), it wouldn't make for particularly good reading.