Just a little summary I cooked up for a potentially epic crossover:

"There are many things Harry Dresden has dealt with in his explosive career, rogue wizards, faeries and even his own death. Confusion begins to mount when The Gatekeeper approaches him under different name's and disguises: Radek Fletch, Rashid Freemantle and now Randall Flagg. A new player is in town, and his eye is watching."

Just a random plot bunny I had.

 

That's one of the things I'll have to think about when I do this. As Hashasheen and I were discussing, there are some things that'll have to be changed. Also, just a heads-up, Dean and Harry are going to soul-gaze at some point.

I'm not far enough along in the series to have seen Eve, but I know of her and that she's supposed to be the mother of all monsters. They'd have to solidify into their own courts, because they would see themselves as above the others. That's a recurring theme in Supernatural, just about every enemy the Winchesters come across have huge egos.

Not Lilith, but definitely Eve. For one, Nicodemus got to sign the accords because Dresden was in a tough spot and he called in a favor, but we're talking about a being that is supposed to be the mother of all monsters. Yeah, Mab would want her to sign. As far as Hell and Purgatory go, I'm of the opinion that they are their own pocket dimension, so to speak. We're led to believe that Heaven exists outside of the Nevernever, so why not Purgatory and Hell? Dean's time in Hell is going to come up in that soul-gaze, and may even be hinted at when Dresden uses the Sight on him.

I had considered the Paranet as an explanation for why the Winchesters are always around a case, instead of them or Bobby trawling through newspaper headlines. God may be more active in the Dresden-verse, but He doesn't exactly interfere on anyone's behalf to that extent (with the sole exception being the bearers of the Swords, but that's a special case). The Paranet is just a bunch of practicioners and hedge-wizards/hedge-witches who have a way to keep in contact with each other. I like the idea of the Winchesters being part of the Venatori, although I'd definitely intended to have Bobby as an honorary member of the Paranet, simply because he knows so much more than anyone else within a century of him in age. There's a reason why every Hunter in existence calls him when they need help on a case. Also, Bobby being part of the Paranet could theoretically cause trouble for both him and the Winchesters amongst the Venatori.

They are referred to in passing by Mab, and only by their titles. Names have power in the Dresden-verse, and invoking their names may well have summoned them, especially because she was the one saying it. Hashasheen already offered a solution to Uriel, we simply say it was another angel. Gabriel is in a very unique situation, because he was masquerading as Loki for so long. Michael wasn't a douche, per se, so much as he was being a good son. Go back and re-watch Swan Song, it's blatantly obvious that he doesn't want to fight Lucifer, but he will because God said that he would. Finally, we have Raphael, who is perhaps the most zealous of the lot. I could directly address his conduct in the Supernatural-verse and simply have God put him on lockdown. Again, I'll think about it.

It all depends on when I actually set the crossover to take place. It'll definitely occur after Dean's time in Hell, but the Dresden timeline is the one I really need to work with. I may have to bend time in the Dresden Files.

This. Also, I could theoretically set it during the Judeo-Christian apocalypse from Supernatural and have the Reds think this is a fine-and-dandy time to have their little uprising.

Hashasheen also brought up an excellent point about the Supernatural vampires. They should be made into their own court, but I can't for the life of me think of a good name for it. The courts have color-based names, so if anyone is willing to toss some ideas out, I'd be grateful.

 

Eve was a pretty shitty enemy, as were her "children". You might as well ignore that due to the lack of connection it has to most of Dresden Lore. Vampires are different, werewolves are different, dragons are different, etc...

Can't imagine the Venatori mind that much. They are allied to the White Council after all.

The Grey Court. Fits in with their weaknesses to dead man's blood & ash, their relatively benign abilities and pale features, etc...

 

In supernatural there are all sorts of ways to deal with angels, would these methods extend to Denarians? Let see how they react to a Holy Oil MOlotov cocktail!

I wonder if some of the good monsters would join the that order of st giles, it has open membership for the humanity impaired? so the vampire lenore, and that mortician amy the kitsune.

COuld some of the monsters have been the result of Wizards transforming human in to creatures?

THe monsters that spread by infection are likely hunted by other monsters like the RCV, to make sure there is less competition, by those that increase by breeding are more likely to make alliances with the powers.

The monsters that fed on blood are likly to work together, the same for the red meat eaters. THe alpha monsters while powerful, wont attempt to join the accords without eve. SUre each member of their race is deadly, but they often lack mojo to back it up.

 

Not likely; the Denarians are still 90% mortal, and haven't shown any special vulnerability to holy things.

Sure, the Swords of the Cross are bad news for them, but those swords are bad news for pretty much anything that picks a fight with their wielders while they're on the clock (see Michael killing a Dragon in Mab's weight class).

 

Then again, nobody really prays to the angels. Lucifer was created by God and probably give a certain amount of power by him. Whether his power these days is related to how powerful God is or how many worship Satan... No idea.

The logic of God in The Dresden Files is a bit like the logic of Time travel in Dr Who. You just kinda shrug and go with it.

 

People pray to God, though. A lot of people. One could make the leap of logic that the angels draw their power from God. Right now, God could be considered a limitless well of power, because that's just how many people pray to Him.

 

Plus, Dresdenverse deities don't draw their power from prayer so much as knowledge of and belief in their existence. That's why you've got the Venatori running around trying to wipe out all knowledge of various baddies.

 

You've just given me an idea, either for a one-off scene or a sub-plot or something else entirely.

Dresden and The Winchesters are tasked with doing something about Cthulhu, either banishing him back to The Outside, or erasing all knowledge of him.

 

I´m still not convinced that the power of Dresdenverse supernatural beings depends on how many humans know about them.

For a start, some of the most powerful beings in Dresdenverse are also among the most obscure.

Secondly, we know that these beings can and do gain power by stealing it from other beings. Butcher implied Mab is as she is in part because she´s used the stone table to kill other beings and take their power for herself.

Thirdly, many of these beings pre-date humanity, and even more pre-date civilisation.

Fourthly, Butcher has said that that, if anything, the opposite is true. That the more mortals are messing around with a certain thing, the more its power is diluted. This is why they published the Necromonicon, apparently.

 

Go re-read "Backup" Taure.

 

This could explain why Cthulhu sleeps. His power is so diluted that his body went into a hibernative state.

To be honest, it's entirely possible that both are true. They are weakened by people not knowing about them, but the more people that do know, the more their power is diluted. Praying to deity X could theoretically increase their power, because you are essentially putting faith into them, and faith is huge.

Also, one could say that there is a threshold, of sorts, where a deity-level being's power stops decreasing. Vadderung/Odin is largely no longer believed in. Now, he is academically known of, and many people talk about him as if he doesn't exist. However, he still has enough power to smack around anyone he wants to (with few exceptions).

On another note, I'm considering a plot-point to explain how powerful the Knights Of The Cross are. While they are 'on the clock', so to speak, an angel cohabitates with them in their body, and provides all the power they require. I'd probably have to do something along the lines of people in Supernatural beating demonic possession, in that the possessee can wrestle control away if their will is more powerful than the possessor's or the possessor simply allows it to happen (which is what the angels would do).

EDIT: In Changes, Dresden's Sight shows Murphy in armor and all that. The Sight is supposed to be a metaphorical thing, but what if it could be interpreted somewhat literally as well? For instance, Murphy in that armor could mean that she's a Valkyrie. Just random thoughts I come up with while I outline the plot of this crossover.

 

Here's how this shit works:

Faith (and, presumably to a lesser extent, knowledge of) gives deities and objects (Shroud of Turin) a lot of power. However, "coin-slot" rituals are diluted by being publicized because the being powering them can only deliver once every so often, and so many requests cause it to fizzle out.

 

Not all of them but some beings very very specifically draw their power from mortals knowing about them. Thats literally the entire point of the Oblivion War.

Its not a blanket thing.

T3t already explained this but again its not a blanket statement, deity figures gain power from faith and knowledge not all beings. Odin as a prime example but all of the old gods and such are the kind who draw their power from faith. The more there is among the mortals the stronger they are and the less there is the weaker they are to the point where its entirely possible for them to simply fade away.

No, again T3t explained it but your wrong. The Necronomicon was published so fourteen million idiots all trying to use it at the same time are lucky to get a drop of power instead of one monster getting the whole shebang. Gods on the other hand dont work that way in the slightest, they aren't coinslots mortals can simply tap into when they want to do something with magic. A God is a sentient being that has its own power mortals cant use unless it lets them.

 

Oh, sure, if we're only talking about specific beings then it's whatever.

I just have a pretty violent reaction to the turning of Dresdenverse into Discworld.

 

Supernatural would be a great xover so long as it stuck to demons, monsters and ghosts. Its when angels and gods get brought in it gets iffy.
WHat if when Eve wanted to protect her children from crowley and co, what if instead of simply making an army, she unified her children and join the accords. Hell likely was part of the accords, so would be forced to observe the formalities.

Would it not be simpler to jut export the good aspects of the show to the dresden verse?

 

'Good' and 'bad' are subjective. For example, as a character, I despise Sam. I find him to be a grade-A douche, but there are people who love him.

 

One of the Laws of magic is not to transform others, imagine if a supernatural superfan decided to create the monsters from the show. We never get to see much of that type of magic. So would be cool if we saw actual results of dark magic that are self purpetuating. I can totally see wizards hunting this specific types of monster to ensure no one else attempts it.

THe ventori and the order of st. giles hunted monsters, yet they were not accords members. SOme of the supernatural monsters, are quite human like so could easily be part of it for safety.

Monster are likely hunted when not part of a power system, so wanna bet they are pets or servants of the different powers, similar to dresden ghouls are mercs. People say the vamps are likely the grey court, djinn drink blood so would they be the blue court. That would only leave one court of vamps unknown of the severn.

Lucifer does not trust the denarians, so the corrupted soul would fight with the coin collection. Bet hellfire kills them.

GRIMM would be much easier to join together, there is already a nobility and order to the system. I hope i find one soon.

 

Derailing things here, but that post in Kincaid-Care about the Archive retaining all memory of the previous Archives got me thinking.

What if a prior Archive was an Assassin(ala Assassin's Creed)? The only problem is that I believe the passage of info is from mother to daughter, meaning no Ezio or the like without gender bending :\

 

You know, reading this I think Syed has a good one. I can actually see this being a good way to get Supernatural, or any fic really going. Some wizard guy has broken the laws and created some monsters. Dresden is sent to find out whats going on and meets some new people. And hes sort of right that if a wizard created monster isn't a part of a signatory nation of the accords, it could be hunted by anyone. Pretty good idea Syed.

There he goes. I was so hopeful that this post would make any sort of sense. Oh well.