Having no real in-built escape does that, at least when you don't have Kog Maw's range...


But I absolutely love his ulti, getting it off into a group of enemies is really satisfying.

 

His Q feels unsatisfying. It's like Nidalee's Q in terms of hitting a running target. The fact that he can't skill chain with it, can't auto during casting, or move at the same speed makes it feel bad.

 

The slow on it is the most annoying thing. It is still decent harrasment tool on lane, and good for farming waves later, but the fact that it slows you makes it a big trade-off to try and snipe a running opponent, as if you don't kill with it, you'll just fall out of your abilities range, which feels awful...

 

Even with the problems though I am still having a fuck load of fun on Varus. Its just a fun character to play for me.

 

Hitting with an unmitigated Q on Varus hurts like hell. That thing just tears chunks into people.

 

Especially if you've got some stacks of Q on the person.

For those who don't know, Varus doesn't scale particularly well with AS as compared to most other AD carries. He's better to actually start with AD stacking after some AS Boots. I wouldn't pick up a PD till after both IE and Bloodthirster, though a zeal in the middle probably wouldn't hurt and may be important for keeping up with your targets.

I'd definitely recommend going MS masteries and maybe even MS quints.

 

I know it seems like AS is the way to go with Varus because of dat passive, but it isn't.
Really, to be quite honest, attackspeed is never the answer for ranged.
Teemo works better with wriggles/mallet/thirster than an on hit build.
Kog works better rushing IE than an on hit build.
Vayne works better rushing IE than an on hit build.
Kayle works better rushing IE than an on hit build.

Pay close attention to Vayne, because her passive is essentially Varus' without the need to land an ability. On most targets, the damage bonus will be similar. Varus deals 15% of their HP. Vayne deals 80 damage+8% of their HP. However, Vayne's will nearly always deal more because it is true damage and also gives her final autoattack true damage as well. And, she can get a lot more procs off using her autos because she is not reliant on landing an ability.

Still, it's nearly always better to go AD first.
AS isn't at all bad, but it isn't something to focus your build on. A nunu lane could help you out quite a bit, but PD first is really not a good choice (and any other attackspeed items are worse).

 

um, doublepost. I only clicked once. I don't even know.

 

Generally speaking, on most AD carries, it's safe to get zerker's and then start rushing AD. Once you get your IE/BT, depending on how much you're dying and how quickly you think you can get those BT stacks, then you should get a PD or LW, depending on how much armor they have.

Yeah, AD should take precedence, but you need some AS in there, and you want more than those zerker's greaves will give you. Hell, if the game goes late enough, get three phantom dancers and blow up their tank with how quickly you're attacking and how much damage you're doing. Also, unkillable.

Because three PDs and three BTs sounds fucking insane. And it is. You'll almost never get late enough/fed enough for it to be doable, and by the time it is, everyone will have some armor, so by then it's a moot point anyway.

 

So, I've been wondering if any of those tenacity items are worth getting lately. Do any of you guys ever buy tenacity other than merc's?

 

You don't really need any AS in there on some carries, you can rush your AD and do fine. Zerker's greaves are not bought because they give attackspeed, they are bought because you need boots 2 and merc treads won't save an AD carry from death (and also cost 400 more).

And I would never, ever, ever want 3 PDs and 3 BTs. That's a godawful expensive build and subpar to boot. One CC and you die, and a standard built IE/LW/BT/PD/boots (5 items that leaves room for QSS or GA) would do nearly the same damage to squishies and infinitely more to tanks. And by tanks, I mean anyone who built Zhonyas/GA/Wriggles/is near an Aegis/is using armor runes/has high base armor values.

Yes, attackspeed is a good thing to have in your build, but never because your character has on-hit abilities of any kind like lulu/kennen/mf/varus/teemo/vayne/kogmaw/kayle/etc etc etc.

Attackspeed is good to get because you built AD first and actually deal damage. PD first CAN work on mf/kennen/kogmaw, but generally it won't be as good as a standard AD build with a BF sword rush.

 

They're not too bad if you build some boots other than Merc treads, and they have a high CC team. But 98% times you should just build Merc Treads if you need tenacity THAT badly.

 

See, all the other tenacity items are built as a "replaces this" item sort of deal.

CaD? It's an upgraded Zeal, basically.
Moonflair? NLR alternative.
Elesia's? Yeah, fuck. It's not a good Philo upgrade.

Basically, of the 4 tenacity items, only 2 really work as okay analogues on their intended type, and only because they provide a cheaper over all build.

The problem is that, if you needed Tenacity anyways, then Merc Treads + Whatever is almost always superior in terms of end-game.

Compare MTReads + PD vs Zerk Greaves + CaD. Both sets are gotten for atk spd, crit, and tenacity. The difference is in price and how much those things actually give.

In any situation, just the raw stats on PD allows it to out-pace Zerk Greavs + CaD already. Since PD is the clear winner in terms of stats, that means you can opt for something else that gives tenacity.

MTreads is the best tenacity item because you're going to build boots anyways, so you're not "wasting" a slot to build a mid-tier item for tenacity.

 

This.

Every single other tenacity item has an ingredient that builds into something that's just better, not to mention that tenacity is one of those stats that once you have it, you'll miss it when it's gone (by this I mean getting a moonflair spellblade early on to deal with ganks/high cc mids, and then selling it for something else).

 

God but opening day is fucking awful. I'm trying to learn how to play Leona and all I get is derpy Varuses who can't fucking last hit no matter how much I Eclipse the minions.

Anyone got a good build and style for Leona? I've been building her AP so I can do any significant damage, but it's damned expensive and drowns me if I can't get enough kills (IE, when I initiate and my Varus awkwardly sits back shooting minions or running. Fuck you newbs.)

 

Don't AP Leona ever. You ratios are pretty much too shitty for it.

HoG, Philo Stone, Kage's, Boots, Kindlegem. Save last slot for wards. Slowly work on upgrading to Randuin's, Shurliya's, and DFG while keeping up ward spam. Preferably, get Randuin's done first.

Basically, with this, you can do a very nice burst to your focus target and allow your allies to clean that one up fast while you use your 39% CDR (Masteries + Items) to lock the hell out of everyone else.

Normally, you'll only have the Randuin's and maybe Reverie done by game's end.

 

Why are you using Eclipse on minions? o,0 Using aoe skills like that usually only makes it harder to last hit, especially when you get multiple minions down to low health causing some of them to die simultaneously. Also, it just pushes the lane, which is usually not the best thing to do, especially with an aggressive support like Leona.

As for build, honestly just build general support build with Gp/10 etc. Leona's damage is subpar regardless of what items you go, so just meh. If you are playing in lower level games (where there are generally less wards, if any besides on Drag/Baron), and want to go an aggressive melee/ap support, might as well just go Alistar.


Edit :

Agree for the most part, except for the Kage's. It's useless, and you might as well get early Oracles/Boots. Leona with boots is a lot scarier then triple GP/10s. And Oracles is good for obvious reasons.

 

When I see Leona with oracles less than 10 minutes in I know that the player is confident of winning, and that I'm fucked. Can't ward bot river because I'll either get caught out and die, or she eats them up while her AD carry keeps the pressure. Can't push because no wards means the threat of a jungler. Can't focus her because her carry will wreck our shit, and vice versa.

What do? Play passive in response to her aggression?

On the other side of that, my past two games went tits-up when I used free-ona :|

Picked up Janna last week and I love the everloving shit out of her though. Might eke out Taric as my most played champ :3

 

You just have to keep warding when you can. Oracles really helps aggressive supports like Leona that can make plays happen early since it applies even more pressure on your lane. Keep farming and wait for a play to kill her.

@Lamora, I would suggest rushing Shurelia's after Philo and HoG and boots1. Shurelia's is just so good for your midgame teamfights.

 

Upon further consideration, with the usefulness of his Q, that Last Whisper is again likely the better item than Black Cleaver.