Really? I never knew that. Since I finished kitting out my Desktop I run them all on max just because I can.

 

Yeah, I don't see the flowers around turrets. However, I think the color of the terrain is a good approximation of their range. Once you're on brown ground, you're safe.

 

That's why I said:

I'm not sure of this, but I also think there are indicators like those in the jungle that show aggro ranges for the creep camps.

 

General Tips
3 points in brute force is better than 3 points in mental force even on an AP carry (except karthus)

Annie
Annie has probably the best auto attacks at harassing at low levels because it has long range but moves slowly, meaning that you can get free auto attacks off without the minions attacking you if you do it properly. She can murder someone like kassadin in a lane since he has melee attacks.

 

Not really true. It depends on the character you are playing. If it has a small auto attack range (talking about AP characters), the ap points generally are much better unless you have trouble last hitting early stages. But for champs with high auto harass, Kennen, Annie, Anivia, etc, I can see why brute force can be used instead.

 

Ryze, Swain, Ahri, Brand, Annie, Anivia, Kennen, Morgana, Cassiopeia, Xerath, the list goes on...

There might be a few champions you wouldn't want it on sure, but it helps with both last hitting and auto attack harassing which is super important.

The only AP i play that I don't use it on is Karthus.

 

4 AP for 4 points is pretty awful. If you had a 10.0 AP ratio, which I don't think you can get even with the bestcase scenarios on your abilities, you get 40 damage.
Whereas you can make your last hitting significantly easier with +3 damage and +2 damage to minions.

 

I did specifically mention that if you have trouble with last hitting, or is using a champion with high auto harass potential, you should get the brute force masteries. But I'm just saying this should be specified, rather than only leaving out Karthus, since there still ARE a lot of champions where taking the AP points would be better.

For example, some champions that farm all day (Mordekaiser and Morgana), would not make too much of use of Brute Force. (Morgana has 425 auto attack range btw, so I don't really know why you would want to auto harass since most of the time, unless enemy is overextended, you will just draw minion aggro and get hit with a spell). Hell, any ranged ap champs with less than 500 auto attack range should not be harassing with their autos, unless they are facing melee champions or a retarded overextending enemy.

Edit: Yes, 4 ap points, or 3 since most AP champs get the ignite mastery, does not seem to translate to much. But that's like saying 2 Ap quints are useless, and does not offer anything. The damage counts, and helps. It's not significant enough to cause any big gameplay changes, but if it's more beneficial, it should be taken. I could say last hitting is not much harder even with -3 attack damage o,0

 

:facepalm
You give advice to auto attack, yet you don't auto attack with Morgana?

Why are you trying to make it seem like not everyone has trouble with last hitting? Even Chauster uses Brute Force on AP carries.

I main AP carry, and the only AP champion i play where I don't use the Brute Force mastery is Karthus.. I don't play Mordekaiser; maybe Mental Force is better on him than Brute Force, but why does that even matter?


The thing is, there are very few AP champions that would prefer Mental Force over Brute Force, and yea maybe I should've included that, rather than just saying "except Karthus." But why would that even matter? If people can't determine for themselves if they want Brute Force or Mental Force then they're going to play poorly regardless. I said it for the people that can think for themselves, but just hadn't thought of that particular idea yet.

 

Depends on the match up, but usually, no I do not. I don't play Morgana often, so maybe I'm playing her wrong. It's one thing to auto attack when they get caught in a snare or something, another to use AA's to harass. Champions will hit you back, and be able to land spells, while you cannot. Of course, this changes once you can clear the range minion waves with your W, but until then, it's being unnecessarily overextended and causing you to lose trades. (Yes, she has spell vamp. Doesn't matter enough since you will just end up losing CS trying to W farm early game).

Using Chauster as an example is just retarded, especially since you only include one. I could easily just say the same thing, where Dyrus's Vlad and Kennen uses Mental Force, and same with Westrice with his ap carries, Rainman, and many other top streamers. (I did check their Masteries before posting this.) And yes, not everyone has trouble last hitting. I used Mordekaiser already, but many others including Ap mids such as Gragas, Tf, Morg.If you have problems last hitting with autos early game, you might as well put the points in butcher (for the champions that do not auto attack harass often).

If you said it for people that can think of it and choose themselves, why bother posting that general tip at all then? Your statement was a very straightforward Brute Force is better than Mental Force, except on Karthus. I only pointed out it should be modified to better explain when it is a better choice to get Brute Force instead. I would also disagree with the "there are very few Ap champs that would prefer Mental Force."

 

Morg doesn't farm all day until level 5, and she makes great use of the +ad mastery. The +AP mastery is just not worth it.
You are comparing them to AP quints, but let's really look at those.

1 AD Quint is 2.25, 1 AP quint is 4.95. So AD is worth more than 2x the AP available from quints.

Why take the 4 AP when you can get the same value from 2 AD and another 2AD while last hitting.

 

Why not take the 3 AP for champions that don't auto attack harass? If you only want to last hit easier, take butcher instead.

Edit: I do agree with the fact that Mental Force in underpowered, as usually the ratio is around 2 ap= 1 ad. But for champions that doesn't make use of the AD anyways, like I said, why not get the AP?

Also, the comparison to AP quints was just saying that 4 AP isn't useless, even if it's not entirely game changing.

 

Because it isn't worth it compared to better last hitting.

 

I don't want to retype my posts since you guys don't read, so here.

 

I give up; arguing with someone that tries to compare Westrice, Dyrus, and The Rain Man with Chauster is ridiculous.

What was I thinking? You're absolutely right; you should avoid auto attacking as an AP if you have less auto attack range than their AP, and Morgana shouldn't push her lane because she is so vulnerable to ganks and roaming as an AP is bad.

But seriously, let me know when you know what you're talking about so I can read what you write without pulling my hair out.

 

I don't know when I said any of that, so when you actually read my posts, let me know.

 

Are we really going to get into a fanboy favoritism grudge match between which pro player is better? Cause it sounds like you're extremely butt hurt that someone would just dare compare these players to Chauster.

You can mathcraft all you want about various masteries in terms of how much gold value you get from them but it all comes down to player preference. Some players will prefer to have the extra auto damage or extra minion damage for better last hitting and other players will prefer to have the extra bit of AP to stack onto their burst from their spells.

It all comes down to the way you play and what masteries made you feel powerful.

 

Why the hell would I auto attack harass on a champ with 475 range?

Why the fuck would I take +3 AD when I can take +4 minion damage, regardless of armor, and still get +1 AP or +1 AD for better last-hits?

Seriously. AD boost is only worth it on those AP champs who can actually abuse it early on to harass enemies. The farmers and skill pokers don't need raw AD over minion damage.

 

It's not about fanboy favoritism, I'm using Chauster as an example because he's always been considered the best in lane.

Chaox also says this about Chauster at bottom lane. I'm not just saying it because TSM says it; I'm saying it because its common knowledge that Chauster is a complete beast in lane.

Dyrus, The Rain Man, and especially Westrice are all known for being medicore and more importantly, they all fucking play top lane.

When you play against 2k+ elo players you're going to have to use auto attacks, theres no way around that. There is no "I prefer to not auto attack, because its just not my style."

 

Alright, fine. If we're talking midlaners who play AP mid, CLG's Bigfatlp currently has one page where he uses Brute Force for his AP.

ReginaId currently has multiple mastery pages where he sometimes use Brute Force and where he sometimes uses Mental Force.

TD's ParadoXical also has 3 different mastery pages where he uses one or the other depending on his champion selected.

4Not's TakashiX mostly uses Brute Force in his mastery pages but sometimes he combines the two.

Curse Nyjacky currently has one mastery page where he takes Mental Force over Brute Force.

EG's Salce currently only has one mastery page where he uses Mental Force over Brute Force

Scarra has one mastery page where he takes both Brute Force and Mental Force (This is inplace of Havoc, which most other AP mid players take).

I am not saying that you're not going to auto attack as an AP mid. When the fuck did I say this? All I said was that some players prefer to have more kick with their autos against enemy champions and some players prefer having more kick with their spells.

Quit being a stubborn dipshit and accept the fact that certain players lean towards certain masteries.