I would like to contest this statement as fact. If anything, Voldemort in canon seems to produce his fair share of errors and then some.

I would like to say more on the subject, but I fear fanon has infected my memory too deeply to try and prove anything.

 

Yeah... it has.

 

I don't think Albus would do that if Harrymort proves his usefulness in the war with Voldemort. Afterwards he would do as you said.

 

What about Nevile?

 

So, Voldemort´s wand did not changed its allegiance to Harry ? I thought that was reason for LV to take Lucius Malfoy´s wand, suddenly develop interest in wandlore and Deathly Hallows and that strange golden flames in their mid-air combat.

And well, Dumbledore was aware that Harry had to die in order to defeat Voldemort. He had only a glimmer of hope with Voldemort taking Harry´s blood, but by the end of OotP, Dumbledore had yet no plan (like that super complicated and complex one in DH) to take advantage of that fact.

So, while Voldemort would be gloating over Harry´s body, Dumbledore would not be stunned or such but he would quickly and non-lethally subdue him, throw him into Azkaban indefinitely because Voldemort is technically dark necromantic creature and as such, with discrimination we see in Wizarding World, he probably has no rights but because of Horcruxes, it is better to keep him corporeal, so no execution or trial with possible public outrage over Voldemort´s answers or call to make his punishment extraordinary.

He will set his Order to help guard Azkaban instead of Department of Mysteries, perhaps interrogate Voldemort and die slowly after finding the Ring.

And yes, he will probably use Harry´s death against his political opponents and to gain back his old positions. He is, after all, the most skilled manipulator in canon (like all leaders are).

 

Yeah, I don't think it's quite definite that Harry would just die.

I understand what Taure says about the unpredicatability of the event but I think one of the key elements, the wand, is still quite similar.

Taure's said why the elder wand did what it did, but with Voldemort using his own wand I could see the same set of circumstances arising.

It was my understanding that what had happened with the brother wands was up and beyond the normal winning of allegiances, that Voldemort's wand would refuse to work against Harry, and Harry's wand had taken that magic to use against Voldemort.

Because of that I could see one of the essential circumstances being close enough for it to happen 'again'. However, as the WOG says that it's Harry's choices, the difference in his age and the different circumstances, particularly with Sirius just having died, would make the largest impact.

I am curious though, as I'd never thought about Harry's protection from his mum being kept alive within Voldemort, is that protection the reason Voldemort was knocked out at the same time as Harry and if Harry had been out for an hour would Voldemort have been out for an hour too?

 

No, Harry had not won the allegiance of Voldemort's wand. Voldemort needed a new wand because they were brothers, and any attempt to fight Harry with his yew wand would lead once again to the Priori Incantatum effect.

Harry's wand was equally useless against Voldemort, if Harry were to try to kill Voldemort. But of course Harry was at the disadvantage, so the Priori Incantatum is useful rather than annoying for him.

The golden flames when fleeing Privet Drive was because a) Harry's wand had learnt things from Voldemort's yew wand in GoF and b) Voldemort was using an inferior wand at the time, which meant Harry's Holly wand was free to do some random Deus Ex Machina shit.

All this was in the books -_-

 

What Schro and Taure said. Prophesy fulfilled, Voldemort temporarily vanquished, Voldemort returns, Dumbledore dead. Long Live Emperor Voldemort (or some such variant from fanon). Btw, why's this not a question that doesn't deserve its own thread?

 

Because it's generated two pages of discussion rather than a two post response.

I still don't buy it, the magic is temperamental enough that we can't really say what would happen, I think it's a little unnecessary to crown Voldermort that quickly.

 

Pages generated has nothing to do with the quality of the question or the following discussion. Another question that generated discussion, by the same author was "Since when did Ron start thinking with his head?" with 4 pages of replies.

As for the quality of the question itself - seems like a rather generic what if, type that imo still doesn't deserve its own thread given the potential consequences. For example here's another - what if Voldemort was more serious during their first duel, and as a result Harry unable to escape the graveyard? And another - what if Harry remembered the two way mirrors before going to the Department of Mysteries in OotP?

Edit: The other question by the OP referenced wasn't an independent thread as I said earlier but a Santi derailment.

 

I mean after he took himself out when Harry was a baby. He may have been intelligent and brilliant when he was in school, but especially after we are introduced to him again when Harry is eleven and onward, his mind seems to have taken a severe spiral downward.

I've always thought it was a result of drinking unicorn blood that same year- and being cursed for it.

 

I always assumed it had been a result of his soul splitting, the gradual loss of humanity resulting in a bestial, one track intelligence, rather than the brilliant mind that dreamed of conquering the world.

 

Sort of agree but not entirely. That's certainly a plausible outcome, but disregards Dumbledore's likely change in tactics following Harry's death.

You're way, way off here. For one, Harry would've been dead, permanently, end of story. For two, Voldemort could've used the blood of *anyone* who opposed him in that ritual; he insisted on Harry because he believed Lily's protection would transfer over and/or that it would break that protection on Harry, the latter of which, btw, was never satisfactorily explained by JKR. That is to say, why the blood protections at Privet Drive remained once Voldemort had Harry's blood running thru his translucent veins.

Most important part, imo. I felt then and still feel now (to an extent) that Harry would've had the choice to return regardless of what wand LV used in the Forest. After all, Harry's holly wand had bested the yew wand way back in GoF, and I think that counts for something.

The way I see it there are two scenarios if Harry dies in the Atrium, depending on whether LV escapes or not. If he escapes it's much worse since D'dore is still on the outs and the Ministry is still willfully ignorant. Now kids are dead, yada yada. If LV doesn't get away, i.e. D'dore kills or captures him, then things are somewhat better for the good guys. D'dore is back politically and everyone will rally behind the Boy Who Didn't Live This Time. The Ministry is chastened and all that.

In either scenario, I believe that D'dore would unchain himself, in pretty much every sense of the word. He clearly loved Harry for all Harry's goodness and to see that cut down would, I think, have been the last straw. I've thought about this a little since I saw this thread open up and I actually think D'dore would move to wipe out the Death Eaters were Harry to have been killed there in OotP. I think he'd have unleashed on Voldemort - because it's pretty clear he was playing a defensive game in canon for Harry's sake - and would have picked his teeth with Bellatrix when he finished with Tom. And I think he'd have gone after the Horcruxes even more eagerly and single-mindedly, breaking the monotony of the hunt by laying waste to any Death Eaters he could find.

No kidding, I think Harry dying there would've broken D'dore's restraint, and so everyone on the DE side who made it thru should thank Harry for also surviving.

The golden flames and Harry's wand never bothering to react in the Atrium in OotP is, to me, a plothole though. Harry's wand 'overcame' the yew wand in the graveyard - Harry won that battle of wills-slash-duel-slash-whatever - so why didn't his holly wand react to save him in the Atrium? Why, if it had 'imbibed some of LV's power' or 'recognized LV's power' or whatever D'dore said at the end of DH, didn't it get off it's wooden stick ass and help him then, when he was Most Certain to die? The only difference between then and the beginning of DH is that LV is using a different wand, but Harry's wand was, for all intents and purposes, superior to BOTH.

Same here to an extent, plus the required "stupid villain" aspect of all YA books.

 

Someone who can write Dumbledore well needs to make this into a oneshot. I would read the shit out of that.

 

The Only One the Dark Lord Feared​

“Be quiet, Bella,” said Voldemort dangerously. “I shall deal with you in a moment. Do you think I entered the Ministry of Magic to hear your apologies?”

“But master—he is here—he is below—“

Voldemort paid no attention.

“I have nothing more to say to you, Potter,” he said quietly. “You have irked me too often, for too long. AVADA KEDAVRA!”

Harry had not even opened his mouth to resist. His mind was blank, his wand pointed at the floor.

But the headless golden statue of the wizard in the fountain had sprung alive, leaping from its plinth, landing on the floor between Harry and Voldemort.

It was a moment too late, however, as Voldemort’s curse struck Harry in the chest and in that instant, the Boy Who Lived lived no more, as the cold touch of death stole the breath from his lungs. A last, peaceful sigh left his lips as his legs lost their strength and his body crumpled to the floor.

“Dumbledore,” hissed Voldemort, spinning quickly, a jet of brilliant light flashing from his wand toward the doorway where the venerable wizard was standing with an implacable look on his face. A whirling of his cloak and the wizard vanished from the curse’s path, appearing behind Voldemort. His wand a blur, the air crackled with magic as statues animated. Shambling, humanoid figures made of stone rose from the marble parquet floor and attacked his foe with surprising quickness. Capitalizing on the distraction, the ancient wizard flicked his wand at Voldemort, calling down a brilliant white column of magic upon his foe, who hastily conjured a silver shield to absorb the blast.

“You do not seek to kill me?” called Voldemort, his scarlet eyes blazing, his voice triumphant, mocking. “You would consider yourself above such brutality?”

Rage burned in the eyes of the Headmaster. In answer, he flicked the tip of his wand at Voldemort’s fleeing servant. Two loud cracks preceded her falling to the floor like a crushed insect, her legs bent at odd angles, her screams echoing in the vaulted atrium. Another flick of the Elder wand and the animated statue of a House Elf leaped from the plinth onto her back, its long fingers snaking about her neck. A hard twist, a series of loud pops, and Voldemort’s most feared servant lay still, gazing at the ceiling.

“We both know there are many ways of destroying a man, Tom,” Dumbledore said with disgust, both at his enemy and his own actions. “I confess, merely taking your life would not satisfy me. I admit—“

“There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore!” snarled Voldemort.

“I beg to differ,” he said firmly, punctuating his statement with a torrent of blue flame that forced the Dark Lord to twist away from the intense heat. Pale skin darkened on one side. “And I shall introduce you to one shortly.”

Another sickly green curse flew from the Dark Lord’s yew wand, but an idle twitch of Dumbledore’s wand flung the security desk into the path of the curse, absorbing it. Another tiny gesture sent the desk hurtling through the air toward his enemy.

“It was foolish to come here tonight, Tom, truly, for I'm afraid the proverbial gloves have come off.” Dumbledore spoke quietly, though his voice had taken on the timbre of something terrible. Waving his wand in a flourish, the stone statues, shattered by Voldemort’s spells, reformed and charged his foe.

He took a deep breath, and then raised the Elder Wand at his foe. It had been long years since Albus Dumbledore had killed with magic and had felt—and fought back against—the taint upon his soul, had heard the dark whispers in the recesses of his mind, the wicked promises of power and retribution. It had been many years since he had allowed himself to listen.

He opened himself to his magic as spells, dark, ugly, powerful, leaped from his wand, habits of old fueling them with anger and hatred. A summoning, long forgotten, came to the fore and before he realized, Dumbledore found himself muttering an incantation, ancient Sumerian, and watched as the broken body of Voldemort’s servant writhed in ebon mist. And then something pushed up from the floor and approached her former liege.

“Master,” it rasped through torn vocal cords. Its eyes, glowing faintly, looked at him tenderly.

Voldemort sent a Killing Curse at the reanimated Death Eater, but the construct, no mere Inferius, ignored it. A dark cutting curse took off the thing’s arm above the elbow and it flopped upon the floor, but then floated back to reattach. A blasting curse removed its head, then another curse, a portion of her torso. Again, the ebon mist caused the being to reform.

“Bella always loved you, Master,” it said, grasping Voldemort’s left arm with surprising strength. Grimacing as the bones broke cleanly, the Dark Lord muttered the incantation for Fiendfyre and a fiery snake writhed from the end of his wand, encircling the creature. Ignoring the heat, he wrenched himself from the thing’s grasp and watched ebon battle flame. Infernal flesh blackened and reformed, as death, mere feet away, threatened. Finally, the creature turned to him and smiled wickedly, its eyes glinting, and spread its arms as if to embrace.

“Bella still loves you, Master,” it whispered as she leaped toward him, evaporating into ash upon reaching him.

Furious, Voldemort slashed his wand at Dumbledore, launching a writhing mass of shadow toward his opponent, but the ancient wizard had vanished again, appearing beside Harry’s lifeless body.

There was a flash of flame and his familiar perched upon the boy’s chest. The black eyes of the phoenix met his and the bird bowed its head.

Something hardened inside the wizard at the sight of the boy and his magic flared inside, seemingly alive, and his blood boiled with fury, hearkening to the days when he last faced a Dark Lord in mortal combat, when he had first prised the Deathstick from his lover’s hands and bent its wickedness to his will.

“Take Harry to my office, if you would, Fawkes. I’m afraid I have some business to attend to before I can join you.”

The bird, sensing the roiling emotions in his companion, made a melancholy whistle and flashed away in a burst of flame, Harry’s corpse in tow.

Few alive knew that the Dark Lord Gellert Grindelwald and he had been friends once—and more—that they had shared dreams and secrets, had delved into the deepest and darkest recesses of their world in a quest for the power to rule, to bend humanity to their wills. Fewer still knew the extent to which they had succeeded, that but for an eleventh hour bout of conscience, Albus Dumbledore would have joined his childhood friend.

“I have defeated the Boy, Dumbledore,” Voldemort said mockingly. “Your pawn, destroyed, your hopes with him.”

“No, Tom, “ Dumbledore replied sadly. “One must always look to hope. To do otherwise is to lose one’s humanity, as I fear you have done. Would that I could redeem you, my old pupil. Unfortunately, now I am afraid that I must now atone for my mistakes.”

With speed belying his years, he jabbed his wand forward and a massive shockwave burst from the tip, faster than thought, carrying with it the rubble of their battle. Voldemort, caught in the blast, was flung back against the wall. Angrily, he pushed himself off of the wall and began to float in the air.

“Crucio!” A brilliant jet of red flew toward the Headmaster, who turned out of the path of the curse. It missed him by a hair’s breadth.

“While I grant that you are powerful, Tom, your use of the Unforgivables is nevertheless disappointing,”

Voldemort, still hovering in the air, turned toward the voice and fired another Cruciatus curse, missing again.

“They lack artistry, a certain je ne sais quoi. Had you a healthy soul, you no doubt would realize that the Dark Arts have so much beauty if you delve into them deeply.”

And at that, Dumbledore whispered a mellifluous incantation, words like jeweled daggers, beautiful and deadly. A discovery from his youth, used in anger only once, the pale blue light of the curse illuminated the center of the Dark Lord’s chest and the most feared Dark Lord in history fell to the floor, shrieking, as all-consuming, existential pain wracked his body. Long moments passed as the spectators in the atrium, including the Minister for Magic, looked on.

The greatest wizard of the age torturing the most feared--most disturbing, perhaps, was not the shrieks of pain, nor the power of the curse, which caused hairs to rise among those in the atrium, but rather the placid expression on the old man’s face.

After long minutes, Dumbledore lifted his curse.

“You wish for mercy, Tom?” Dumbledore asked gently, approaching the quivering body of his enemy.

“Yes,” Voldemort hissed.

Dumbledore nodded. With a few brisk movements, cutting curses removed the Dark Lord’s limbs. There was a stink of burning flesh as the stumps were cauterized.

“And mercy you shall have, Tom. I shall see your life spared, as I did Gellert’s. You may reside in the cell adjacent to his."

And then he bent down next to Voldemort's limbless body and spoke so that only the two of them could hear. "And don't think I don't know about your little trinkets. I assure you, I know more of their nature than any wizard alive, even you, Tom. I know how to use them to bind this body of yours to this world indefinitely. Immortality, you may come to realize, is truly a curse."

 

upon his foe.

Repetition of "intense heat" from the previous line. Try another term.

took off.

Errors aside, you write a fantastic Dumbledore. For shame that we have not a double-thumbs up button.

 

I started writing a one-shot of my own, although it's nowhere as good as Perspicacity's. Excellent work mate.

Although, I wonder. If Albus Dumbledore knew how to use Horcruxes to bind Tom Riddle's soul, then why didn't he do it????

Is it because he didn't have all the horcruxes in his possession???

 

Uh... really, what's the point of this thread? Isn't the point of fanfiction to take a set of ideas from some sort of canon and do whatever the fuck you want with it? What does it matter the what if's and all that rot if we're all just going to do what we want in the end when we write/think up cool shit?

 

Well, most (good) writers will try to have some sort of consistency/believability to their story and world.

Also, the question of the thread is what we would think would happen in the canon world if this divergence happened - not really directly about fanfiction.