What rune page should I build for an ADC? I am going to be buying some new runes but I don't know exactly which to get.

 

Refer to the post that's 2 before your's?

 

Great idea. Listening to this guy is giving me a cold though.

 

I love whoever told baddies that Eve is free platinum. I adore that person. Why you ask?

I main Mordekaiser. You know how some people focus I'm becoming good with a few champions? Mordekaiser is mine. Everything that Eve does, Mordekaiser is built to punish. Melee squishy? Harass with Q? Want to roam all day? Have fun. I will push your inhibitior ten minutes in. And your wraiths. And your red. And blue.

Obviously hyperbole, but he is such a hard counter to her it isn't funny. You just shit on Eve early and take mid tower unless you are being camped, in which case you have won because your junglers is free to gank other lanes unopposed and you are rich enough to ward all day. If you aren't camped you free farm and take towers, pushing your lanes ahead and putting their jungle behind. Mordekaiser is so strong on offensive buff control it isn't funny.

For reference, here is my vs. Eve build:

Boots pots ->hextech->sorcerer's shoes->haunting guise->rabadon->abyssal (if heavy AP) otherwise rylai->GA.

You will deal true damage to minions and Eve until she builds lichbane. Your 49 (plus 10%) mpen means you deal staggeringly massive amounts of damage to everything that isn't building mres. And you melt creeps everywhere. I have killed ADC early on with just my W damage after a single E.

 

Not convinced that morde is that strong of an eve counter, because strong roaming can nearly always win. A double kill+assist money is already worth more than a tower kill, then from that she can also take bot turret or dragon, making it even less worth it.
If it works though then it works, but it may be something that is specific to your elo/level that won't carry over everwhere.

 

doublepost

 

No, Mordekaiser is about as strong of a counter to Eve as you can get. 1v1 wise, Eve cannot win, period. Eve staying in lane will lose, horribly. Thus, as all Eve's do, she will start ganking other lanes. But really, but this point most lanes are learning how to deal with Eve ganks. For the lanes that doesn't have pink wards, throw one for them in that side of the river bushes (I'm not talking about a ward all the way at their lane obviously, but one that mainly benefits you and can see an Eve traveling that direction).

I've had a particularly fun instance, where while I was farming their wraiths, the Eve came to me to try to kill me. She actually had several kills roaming lanes, but her cs must've been down by a good 60-70 (in other words her kills does not put her ahead of me). It was quite hilarious to see her DFG not even break my passive shield.

Like I said though, the main point lies in the fact that people are learning how to play against Eve. And a Eve that is useless is her own lane and other lanes means she's been countered. (Mordekaiser usually farms well enough he can easily purchased two pinks every time he goes back and still get his core quickly). And as soon as actual teamfights start (not small skirmishes), there is no doubt who contributes more.


Edit: Just as a comment to Wildfeather's build, there is absolutely no need for Mordekaiser to get Haunting Guise. A Deathfire Grasp is INFINITELY better on him. If you are ahead, it's retardedly easy to instant gib enemy adc with DFG,E, Ult

 

DFG is being nerfed. Best to get used to playing without it.

It was OP anyway.

 

Honestly, of the 100 games of Mordekaiser I've played, I like Haunting Guise over DFG. Not just because of the upcoming nerf, but for a variety of reasons.

First, 59 (+10%) mpen is terrifying. You are dealing near true damage to most champions, and absolutely more than true damage to minions. It means you clear waves in an instant, even if you haven't gone back for a while. In my opinion sustained damage is better than burst, because your cd are so low they will be back up soon anyway.

Tankiness. If you are planning to carry the game, chances are good you may not have the resources to build defenses. The mpen converts directly to a shield, and the extra life does not hurt. 15% CDR isnt that helpful for Mordekaiser except on his ult, especially not for dealing with burst damage. The mpen and life are. When you are 12/3, you can bet you will be the focus of the enemy team, which is what you want, because that leaves your ADC free.

Psychologically, and from a game perspective, having the extra tankiness and mpen is huge against your lane partner. If your E chunks them for 35% of their life, you will easily condition them to fear you and not trade. The demoralizing affect of your transition to other lanes, or the enormous pressure you place on their team by singlehandedly knocking down objectives is huge. Most of my games end with all of the outer towers down, and one or two inners, but the enemy team surrenders after I 1v2 or 3 the mid and jungle/top/ADC.

Money efficiency is also an issue here. As a whole, finishing boots, hextech, sorc shoes, and DFG costs 4900 gold, excluding wards and potions, and nets you 20 mpen, 12% spellvamp, 15% and 120 AP (plus the active...). For 5385, my build has 145 AP, 40 mpen, 200 life, and 12% lifesteal. So about 485 gold gets you 200 life, 20 mpen, and 25 ability power. For reference sake, 475 gold is how much 180 life costs.

I think some people mistakenly place Mordekaiser with all of other mages, where they want to build burst and blow people up for phat lewtz. Mordekaiser isn't like that at all. Mordekaiser is a giant tank of spinning metal based death, grinding you away on all facets of your gameplay until you have nothing left. Mordekaiser is a top lane style champion whose kit crushes mid lane opponents.

Also, and most importantly, its idiot proof. You don't have to remember to use DFG while 300 particle affects are going on and you're trying desperately to survive the focus fire you are going to go under as soon as you try and burst their ADC, who if they are smart will hang out of your range until you die. You can simply Q and E whoever is closest and shred them, building free shield and making opponents think twice about engaging. If the enemy Garen walks up to your face and you have W up. Hit Q and E him before he silences you, and he walks away with half health and you are need full, Garen is going to go elsewhere next time.

So maybe this is a pubstomp build. I don't know, since where I play in ranked it works overwhelmingly well. I don't see how burst DFG then rely on enemy carry for shield is a good idea, because any mediocre team is going to focus you anyway because you are on the front lines and are dangerous.

For the record, you can look me up at ZEAL92 for my Mordekaiser history. I have a 64% win rate and have played over 100 games with him. If I was on my home PC I would have provided EPeen math waving that proves me right, but I'm on my phone at work at the moment. If this is still something that anyone wants to discuss, I will do the math when I get home.

 

http://en.afreeca.tv/lolIpl5.php

Tasteless of SC2 is casting the korean ipl 5 quals. It's pretty funny, as he clearly doesn't know much about the game, but he's so enthusiastic.

 

I don't really know the extent of the nerfs. I thought it was just a nerf to base hp ratio, but increased ap ratio on the active. Making it something that's less desirable to rush and faceroll enemies with.


@Wildfeather

There's no doubt Haunting Guise is cost efficient and a strong item in general. (Although, you forget to account the GP/10 gold, and it's pretty hard to compare DFG active to general AP/MPEN/HP). Also, CDR on Mordekaiser is very good. I don't know why you think it's only good on his ult. Morde's spells cooldowns aren't the lowest, and definitely benefits from having CDR.

But in any case, if you ever intend to ult enemy ad carry, DFG let's you play it a LOT safer. After all, you can now instant gib them at range rather than having to try and use your Q. Some ADC knows how to position better, and rarely gets caught that hard as to allow Mordekaiser get a free clone. DFG helps destroy tanks as well. Honestly, it's such a good item right now, I'm more surprised you aren't using it. There's a reason it's about to get nerfed

 

From:

Deathfire Grasp

+80 Ability Power
UNIQUE Passive: +15% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE Active: Deals magic damage to target champion equal to 25% of their current Health (+4% per 100 Ability Power)with a minimum of 200 damage (60 second cooldown).


To:

+80 Ability Power
UNIQUE Active: Deals magic damage to target champion equal to 15% of their current Health (+5% per 100 Ability Power)with a minimum of 200 damage (60 second cooldown).


Early game it's a huge nerf, but damage-wise endgame, assuming 600 AP, you'll do 45% with the DFG as opposed to 49%.

The 15% CDR hurts though. Quite a bit, actually.

 

The breakeven on the new ratio/base is about 1000AP. Understand that at 1000AP it dealt like 65% of the enemy's health.
On top of that they are completely removing the CDR.

But honestly, I still don't see the morde=counter eve argument, especially since your argument is essentially that people have learned to play against eve roam. Which they haven't. Eve isn't dangerous because she is some kind of hard counter vs every traditional mid, she is dangerous because of her roam strength.

And who brings more to a teamfight? Eve's ult is essentially an aoe mordekaiser ult with a 70% slow (this is big, an aoe nunu snowball). Except she trades half scaling for 8% more base damage. 25% vs 17%. At 600 AP, the damage is 29% single target with a 29% dot (which will not mean much to an adc's lifesteal) vs 37% AoE damage.

Just off of that, the damage potential is skewed considering once Eve has done that, she has done SO MUCH for her team if she lands it properly, which isn't hard considering how easy of targeting that is compared to morde's PBAOEs. Between the shield and her remove all slows and move at 600ms for 3 seconds, she is harder to focus than morde, who has his shield and his stand still incapable of any type of movement.

Plus, morde is a niche pick at best in solo queue because picking a character with no movement and no cc is a retarded pick for so many team comps. If you're already running amumu/taric/wk/varus and you're covered for cc, then it's probably a fine pick. But even then, a heavy aoe mid like brand/annie would even be a better pick.

People aren't crying out for Eve's blood because she is easily counterable, because she isn't. Ward river? She can go through tri. Ward tri? She can come through lane. Ward river/tri/lane? She can move at 600ms with boots5/W if really necessary. Not to mention that HER support could be counterwarding, HER jungler could get oracles, or she could ward jungle and gank there SUPREMELY well.

I would rather have an AP teemo than a morde vs Eve. AP teemo brings utility and actually HARD-counters eve in lane. He can harass her consistently and easily, not just zone her. Morde keeps her away from the creepwaves, teemo keeps her away from the lane. And he has gank protection. Their contributions to mid game teamfights will be about even, and late game a properly built ap teemo is actually half decent utility and damage just based on not having to run into melee to deal full damage. And I say this even though I utterly hate teemo.

 

AP Teemo is lulz vs Eve. Literally can't do anything and, if he's smart, you can't full burst him either.

 

Been fighting to play support over the weekend during this IP boost so I've had to play outside my comfort zone (notably ADC & Mid, 2 roles I just cannot seem to do much on outside die repeatedly).

Having said that, I'm not sure if I'm liking top lane. Generally I've just been locking in Gangplank as normals are blind. I have Olaf, Darius & a few others but generally feel most comfortable on GP, though I wouldn't mind picking up Shen.

Still, beat a Shen, a Kha'Zix & an Irelia (somehow) in games, lost to an Irelia in another. Just gonna throw my build out there & see if there's anything I'm doing wrong, because I feel like I am as, well, I seem to ignore the whole 'Critplank' idea which makes him such a pain.

Boots & pots (cloth if a tough lane; Irelia, Kha'Zix too for some reason even though I knew his passive was magic based) > Tabi's > brutalizer/wriggles, depending on opponent, phage.

From there it varies. Could complete triforce (or at least get sheen), go vamp scepter & get BT, maybe save up for an IE. Just generally not sure where to go though I know it's down to various factors, plus it's a role I'm not used to playing so I'm going mostly based off things I pick up watching the odd top lane stream.

 

Honestly, it's hard for any single champion to counter Eve roaming. But when we are talking about "counter," we are talking about how Eve cannot do a single thing to Mordekaiser in lane. Proper communication between team, telling other lanes if you think Eve will gank them soon helps a lot to prevent deaths. Warding limits Eve's paths, and if she doesn't know there's a ward, then her gank has just been nullified

The idea that oracles "counters" pink ward is true. But, that's true against all wards and all roaming champions with any sort of gap closer. One of Eve's biggest advange is being able to walk through normal wards. If there's no wards in the first place due to oracles, well any other mid champions with a hard cc/gap closer could gank just as well.

It's not as if picking Mordekaiser= Eve loses immediately. Just that he's a champion that can shut down Eve in lane (without jungle help, Eve can't even CS without getting chunked everytime), and normal teamwork can work toward preventing any snowballing.

 

That's not true at all, Morde doesn't counter eve, she just comes forward to cs from 500 range with Q, like any other caster. Morde pushes and Eve cses at tower easily. Morde doesn't push and tries to zone, jungler comes in because morde is the easiest to gank character in the entire game in my opinion. When I see a morde, I know "free fuckin kills" as a jungler. Hell, even as a support/top lane I see morde and want to roam into his asshole because he has 0 escapes, 0 cc, and has average movespeed. Morde harasses at tower? Morde gets ganked. Eve can cs easily vs anyone except perhaps teemo.

And no, you don't counter her by being stronger than her in lane (which I would still argue that morde isn't, since he just lets her cs at tower big whoop), you counter her with another roaming champion. You counter her with TF, kat, diana, even AP sion counters her better, because they can actually respond to her roaming or roam better/harder/stronger/faster/firster.

Picking morde into eve isn't countering her, it's asking your team to not only beat their lanes but also to beat the roaming eve, because morde is not going to be of any help vs mobile roamers. This is assuming of course the eve knows how to roam. But, as we said, a lot of eve players are people who are bandwagoning the OP bullshit champ, so it won't exactly be uncommon to run into an eve who actually will sit mid, eat harass, and slam her face mindlessly into morde's shield attempting to 1v1.

And no, it isn't the same, because pink wards cost twice as much so losing them is twice as hard on your support.

 

An Eve csing at tower = an Eve that's not ganking. Eve is annoying at mid, because often times you aren't 100% sure if she's in the lane or not. Countless mia calls becomes bothersome to type. Also, while I'm sure there are many that can, not everyone can CS perfectly under tower. Many people will miss one or two under tower, especially when they can't kill the entire wave instantly.


With the Mordekaiser getting ganked easily, yes that's true. But honestly, that's standard for Mordekaisers no matter who they are facing. Just have to know where enemy junglers are/ play safe if you don't know. Ward both sides once you can, etc. Having the whole "jungler with oracles" counters Mordekaiser is rather annoying. I could say my own jungler that didn't buy oracles now counters the hopefully weaker enemy jungler would did buy oracles, and if a 2v2 fight occurs, Mordekaiser is stronger than the Eve.

Also, atm Eve's strength does not lie only in her amazing ganking potential. With a kill or two, she can easily kill squishy enemy mids rather quickly. She can't do that to Mordekaiser without dying/getting out damaged (which is why Mordekaiser being stronger is a factor).

You are right with the TF/Kat being nice counters, I never did say Mordekaiser was the only counter. Although, I honestly don't get why you would think AP Sion can roam better/faster/stronger or any of those.

Pink wards are quite cost efficient for supports btw, as long as they use it well and kill an enemy ward as well. At bot lane unless you are pushing, one is all you need against most eve ganks. Two at the most if a lane bush pink is necessary.

Bottom line is, trying to account for every single thing within the game is just dumb, and won't really work out. For example, what if enemy has a Shyvana jungle or someone with low ganking power? It's also like saying Teemo doesn't counter Darius at top lane because Darius can go pull someone at enemy mid and gank them. Who cares if they have wards? Obviously your own jungler has oracles.

Thus, when I say "counter" Eve, I am talking about Mordekaiser will not lose to an Eve in lane, even when behind a couple of kills (which hopefully won't occur). Proper warding/mia calls will help stop roaming. His natural pushing power will cause Eve's to lose CS and make it more difficult for Eve to gank. If there are continuous failed attempts at a gank, the Eve will fall further behind. Since Mordekaisers usually get all the wraith camps as they spawn, he is one that levels up faster than usual. And can an Eve still gank successfully despite proper precautions? Yes. Does that immediately nullify a "counter" that can bully Eve in lane/punish Eve every time she moves away from lane? No.

I don't even see that many Eve qq's anymore. I feel like most people are already learning how to play against her roaming, and can prevent her snowball. Naturally, she still pubstomps those that don't take precautions/have map awareness, but then again, I guess we still see some OP Darius threads every now and then too.

 

The point of Mordekaiser into Eve is resource denial. After level 2 Eve should never get a CS except melee at turret. You can zone her out of the exp if you are good enough. And if she goes to roam, she is behind the lane she is ganking and is naturally squishy. And since you push every wave to tower anyway, as soon as you see her in another lane you take the tower you have been whittling down since the game started. Call your MIA well and stay on it to remind them, an eve who is pushed out of lane has no problems waiting patiently in a bush until the enemy jungler gets there. That whole time you are pushing objectives, warding enemy jungle and taking enemy buffs or counter-ganking other lanes.

If you play Mordekaiser as a big dumb pushed vs a smart Eve, yes he loses. But anyone who is stupid will lose to a smart person. A good Mordekaiser vs Eve is not only putting pressure on mid and denying CS there, but also applying pressure to the jungle, hence my haunting guise. You clear the jungle faster and are tankier if the enemy jungle makes a visit, but since you have your ult and shield on at a high level you will win the duel.

A good Mordekaiser is a noose on the enemy team, starving them of resources and defensive placements. Eventually the global gold becomes overwhelming and its not like after you push down the first two towers you can't roam yourself. A 50 CS lead and increased map control from mid turrets down mean that every time the opponent is pushed to tower, you are close enough to tower dive the bottom lane and pick up kills and snowball there. Same for top. And if the wave is pushing out, there is space to pull a Singed and obliterate a wave before it gets too far into lane.

Again, this is a matchup I've played easily 30 times. I win it every time unless the enemy Eve has 10+ kills. You can check my match history if you don't believe me. If you are as good as the enemy Eve, or better, you win. You have more presence in teamfights, can fill the same roll as she does while being a tank, you can take objectives much more easily, and you are an all around safer champion. At least when you play my way, as opposed to the apparent pants on head play of your theoretical Mordekaiser who can't keep up with an Eve.

TF is a terrible counter to Eve. Eve is an aggressive burst caster and TF is squishy. Maybe I'm just bad at him, but picking a squishy into an assassain is dumb. Okay so your ult will give you visions of her, yet if you show up or are in lane she is just as likely to burst you as she is whoever she is ganking. As for Kat..... Maybe? It could work but it would be purely skill based.

 

Case of Dumb Bitches Being Dumb

I don't understand these idiots that want "limited edition" crap just to deny others. Tradition can go suck dick.