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X-COM: Enemy Unknown

Discussion in 'Gaming and PC Discussion' started by Aekiel, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Fenraellis

    Fenraellis Chief Warlock

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    So... "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated." ? Kind of annoying, and kind of awesome.:p
     
  2. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Basically. It's not actually a bad trade for level 0/1 Squaddies, especially if you have a bunch of the SHIV upgrades like plasma cannons and flight, but when a Colonel gets replaced by one, suddenly the bug isn't funny anymore.
     
  3. Mercenary

    Mercenary Snake Eater

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    All fun and games until a Colonel gets assimilated.
     
  4. thebrute7

    thebrute7 High Inquisitor

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    Goddamnit, just lost my first Colonel during the Base Assault. Had my squad divided into two teams, and I had a melee muton charge right into one of my teams, and was left with 1 damn hit point at the end of the turn. He then proceeded to turn my Sniper into so much blood and bone splattered across the wall.

    It really, really sucks when your sniper misses a 98% acc shot.
     
  5. Legacy

    Legacy Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
     
  6. Dr. Strange Lulz

    Dr. Strange Lulz Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    As soon as I get comfortable with a set of enemies the game decides to throw a whole new set my way. Whats that? Comfortable with Thin Men you say? Here, have the creatures from Starship Troopers, oh ya and they make zombies. Oh you don't mind Discs? Here, have the giant robot from Robocop 2.

    Got 3 serious missions over the course of 4 days, Base Assault, Terror Mission, UFO landing. By the UFO landing I was down to using the "C-Team" which consisted of rejects from the A and B Teams... this was not a fun battle.

    Chuckled when my female support trooper got nicknamed Missionary.

    Basically I'm enjoying it more than anything I've played lately.

    Unfortunately this got put on the backburner for a recently purchased copy of the Witcher 2, which just got put aside for the new Skyrim DLC... which I bought with a points card I had saved to use on the new Mass Effect DLC.

    This is the first time in like 3 years where I've actually had too many good games to play at one time.
     
  7. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    You're not missing anything with the Mass Effect DLC, I assure you. The average playtime Bioware said it adds to the game is about three times the amount that it actually does, neither Aria nor Nyreen are permanent squadmates (and Nyreen honestly has a pretty crappy moveset), the weapon mods added to the game are ones that you've probably already got in multiplayer if you play it, and the two 'new' weapons are just the exclusive preorder and promotional content guns that people who preordered or played the KoA demo already have. And all you get for beating it are four war asses that you probably don't need and a chess set (that doesn't even get used in the one non-DLC cutscene where people play chess). You don't even get to use Omega as a new hub. Once the DLC is over with, you can't go back.

    I had held some high hopes for the Adjutants, because in the comics and in the original plans for the main game, they could teleport at-will, making them a highly evasive and dangerous infantry unit. They were cut from the final version of the game, however, because their constant teleporting was too much for the game engine to handle. I had hoped that their return in this DLC meant that they had fixed the teleporting problem, but as it turns out, they just removed their teleporting ability entirely, which makes them little more than buffed Husks.

    Just about the only things worthwhile in the entire DLC were the new Cerberus enemies, which I hope get put into the multiplayer soon (basically enemy Sentinels that can use the Armor Lock from Halo at-will and create napalm slicks when they die, causing battlefield hazards), and a single new biotic power, Flare, which is an all-or-nothing biotic power that deals grenade-like AoE damage at the cost of a massive cooldown (19 seconds when specced for recharge speed, 24 when not).

    And honestly? The whole thing seemed kind of silly anyway. I don't know why we're supposed to care about the fate of a single space station that's mostly inhabited by criminals when kilometer-long Cthulhu dreadnoughts are raping entire planets in the background.


    tl;dr, the DLC gives you:

    - A bunch of upgrades that have been in the multiplayer for some time now.
    - No new squadmates.
    - No 'new' guns, just old ones that you may or may not have already had.
    - No new hub.
    - War Assets that aren't that useful.
    - Two powers, only one of which is new (Flare), and the other of which doesn't even make sense (you need special invasive implants to be able to use Lash; that was the whole point of the Phoenix project. For Shepard to suddenly be able to train in it makes no sense).
    - A chess set that doesn't get used in the one scene outside the DLC where a chess set actually gets used.

    And it costs 15$ in U.S. dollars for it.

    So yeah. Conflicted over the Witcher and Dragonborn, sure. But don't lose any sleep over the Mass Effect DLC.
     
  8. Dr. Strange Lulz

    Dr. Strange Lulz Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Thanks for that. I honestly care more for the multiplayer side of ME3 anyway, at this point its really the only multiplayer game I'm enjoying. Unlike COD where people are constantly screaming, or Battlefield where nobody talks at all (due to the god awful squad mechanics left over from BC), the ME3 multiplayer community is actually fairly awesome. I've made a few decent friends out of randoms I ended up with.

    The constant influx of new FREE content for MP is also noteworthy. IMHO ME3 multiplayer is the one thing that Bioware actually did right in the last few years, and considering the skepticism I had about it before the game launched, that's really saying something.

    Now I just need to keep Geralt alive (Ya, thinking "Ya I'm a badass gamer, I can start this game on the hardest setting" What.A.Moron.), try not to get slaughtered by Werebears (Seriously, like bears needed to get any scarier in Skyrim, hairy ninjas...) and get back to repelling an invasion by increasingly more terrifying aliens. Awesome.
     
  9. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    I agree, the multiplayer is surprisingly good. Basically, all you really need to know about Omega is that the few decent things in it are almost certainly going to show up for free later on in the multiplayer (the new Cerberus units are too good to go to waste, and some new character, likely an Adept, will have Flare at some point), and since the DLC doesn't really add anything to the single player game or the story, you're better off passing it up and waiting for the multiplayer transition.

    Honestly? I'm just hoping for a Spectre expansion for the multiplayer. Because it really annoys me that the other supersoldier supercops are doing apparently jack-all when the entire universe is simultaneously on fire and being eaten. I get that Shepard is awesome, but the way the game plays, it's like he's practically the only one that exists. I'd just like to see another "elite" roster like the N7 characters, but with Spectres instead. An Asari Spectre would be an ideal candidate for Flare, new enemies could include the unique Omega units, and it's a great excuse to introduce new, 'prototype' guns and weapons.
     
  10. Legacy

    Legacy Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    Hell, not to beat a dead horse but doing something along the lines of Halo 4's Spartan Ops except with Specters would be pretty awesome. Why not show where the other hidden elite soldiers of the council are? Have co-op missions of three or four people working together to take down facilities, organize defenses and the like. It's just a missed out angle that really bugs me that they haven't looked at.
     
  11. Consumptus

    Consumptus Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    316
    Back on topic....

    I seem to have gotten the
    Templeship Doors
    bug. I'm fairly certain a Floater jumped somewhere off the map.

    Is there any fix for this? A quick google search turns up nothing.

    This was my Classic Ironman run too =(
     
  12. Legacy

    Legacy Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    Do you have anyone with archangel armor? Might be able to spot him.
     
  13. Mercenary

    Mercenary Snake Eater

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    Never split the team(party) Are you mad?!
     
  14. Legacy

    Legacy Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    Actually splitting your group into two fireteams actually works pretty well in certain situations. Large abduction maps, UFO crash sites and the like all present multiple options to engage the aliens and working them over from two different angles speeds things up considerably. I wouldn't advise it early on or at all though, I've always preferred 5-1 builds where you have two heavies, two assaults, and a support in the main group and a sniper on high ground.

    If you are going to split your team though I would make sure you have a heavy and an assault with each, the sniper hopefully is using snapshot as well to continuously cover the team while moving. I know, I know, suggesting snapshot over squadsight on a sniper, blasphemy and all that, still it does have its uses if you aren't always finding the high ground for line of sight.
     
  15. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Snapshot isn't bad. I personally prefer Squadsight, but you need some Snapshot snipers. Squadsight is useful for maps that have a lot of wide-open space and, preferably, high ground as well. However, Squadsight allows a Sniper to be mobile, instead of hunkering down in a single position, and that has massive advantages of it's own.

    Generally, I use Squadsight to cover my squad as they move forward into unknown territory. Because it lets the sniper shoot at anything a squadmate can see, any enemy that they run across will trigger a reaction shot from my Squadsight Sniper if they're in Overwatch at the time. This has saved my squad's ass more than once, and it's my proof against the game bullshitting enemies right into the middle of your battlegroup. My highest kill soldier on my main file is my Squadsight Sniper, and all he ever does is Overwatch and Reload. Very rarely am I force to take him out of Overwatch and have him actively engage the enemy. He typically provides more than enough through covering fire alone.

    And in a fit of generosity from the RNG, his nickname was "Archangel," too.


    Basically, what you need to understand is that when you pick Squadsight or Snapshot, that defines everything else your sniper is going to do, and what other skills they are going to pick down the line. There are certain skills that are, for instance, much more useful for a Squadsight Sniper, and there are others that mesh much better for a Snapshot sniper. A properly built Squadsight Sniper is an Overwatch God. Likewise, a properly built Snapshot Sniper is a highly mobile anti-infantry unit that's capable of providing support, covering fire, and backup wherever it is needed on the battlefield.

    Granted, in my experience, the Squadsight builds seem to get more kills in the long run, but that doesn't make the Snapshot snipers less valuable or less worthwhile. Squadsight is your safety net and ass-covering measure. Snapshot is what you use to take the fight to the aliens.
     
  16. Legacy

    Legacy Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    Essentially that. I've gotten annoyed at all the people on the internet who swear that there is one optimal build for the character classes and the rest are shite. Every class has its uses based on the rolls you want them to use.

    Go down the suppressing fire route for a heavy and you have a support/utility user that is able to lock down heavy duty targets and ensure the rest of your squad is safe. Go down the other route and you have a demolition specialist who is capable of doing massive amounts of damage over an area of effect but isn't able to be as mobile or as capable of synergism with your other squad members (not to mention potentially destroying artifacts you can use for research).

    Support is pretty straight forward, you either have one hell of a medic or you have a soldier whose role is to increase the effectiveness of everyone else with smoke grenades and stims.

    Assault soldiers can be a defensive scout that can survive being ambushed and still bring the pain on one route. The other is that of a front line shock trooper able to get up close and personal with a big gun and make just about everything they come across die due to critical hits.

    That's just if you go down the tech paths on either side specifically, you have plenty of ways to build each soldier and just about everyone of them is viable for a situation. The key is knowing when to use the right one and how to use it.
     
  17. Coyote

    Coyote He howls n' stuff

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    See, I have to disagree here. Entirely. While I don't think Snapshot snipers are bad, what that ability gives you is... the ability to use a sniper like you use any other class, except you don't lose the accuracy penalty when shit's close. Which you can get a gimped version of with Gunslinger, anyway, if you insist on having said ability.

    Furthermore, to me at least, using a sniper as a lineman seems pointless when you could fill the slot with a heavy, assault, or offensively specced support. Yes, a Snapshot Sniper is nice for the damage output, but it's not enough-- to me, anyway-- to compensate for the utter lack of utility you get from one of them compared to anything else.

    Then again-- I also use my squadsight sniper offensively just as often as defensively. Sometimes having a scalpel is more useful than OVERWATCH ALL THE THINGS. And sometimes having a character who can take a hit or two without worry because they engage from a mile away normally is really useful.

    Finally, as for indoor firefights... While they are problematic for squadsights, they're not as bad as they seem at first glance. Civilian structures and the smaller UFOs you can just bring down a wall to get LOS from outside, and the alien base/bigger ships are big enough to take proper advantage of the squadsight functionality.

    Really, the only time I'd take snapshot would be if I was playing, say, Impossible, or was having VERY bad luck on Classic and desperately needed a lineman but couldn't afford a rookie/get one in time. Or maybe for that very first terror mission if you can't afford squad size 6 and don't have lasers. You fucks know why.

    Also, it occurs to me: Squadsight is definitely the superior defensive choice, and the higher difficulties seem to really reward defensive playstyles. (I still don't have it in me to make a goddamn defensive heavy, though.)

    Legacy: Bluntly speaking, I mostly agree with you, but I do think that some individual choices are no-brainers. Squadsight's one of those choices, to me. I really can't conceive of people needing another lineman THAT freakin' badly.

    ...And come to think of it, while it's sorta nice to have one, and they do make pretty sick Psi Troopers, I can't help but feel offensive supports are the "Shit, you're stuck with two supports? ...Well, we can kind of work with that, I guess." option.

    On an unrelated note, is it just me, or do people tend to really overstate the usefulness of Psi powers? Not sayin' they ain't good, but by the time you really get 'em developed, the actually threatening shit is either immune because robot, or might as well be immune because they have stupidly high will. Muton Elites are nice to smack around, but... Well, hell, Mutons of any type aren't that big of a deal once you get plasma and decent armor.
     
  18. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    "Why bother making a sniper more mobile?"

    Because In The Zone exists. Because Executioner exists. Because Squadsight isn't perfect, and doesn't ignore all terrain. Because sometimes you desperately need to crit something, but it's too dangerous to send in an Assault Trooper. Because you cannot even try to pretend that a pistol, or even a pistol and Gunslinger, is equivalent to a Sniper Rifle that doesn't need a full-round action to fire.

    Lots of reasons.

    Robots should be dead, unless you for some reason did not choose HEAT ammo or invest in plasma as soon as possible. And you're only going to get outclassed in Will if you're not managing your soldiers well. Every time a Soldier is put down but not out, their Will takes permanent damage. You need to avoid having to stabilize a unit at all costs. It's extremely bad for you in the long run, because then all of your psi-capable soldiers will have terrible Will, and will thus be next to useless.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  19. Coyote

    Coyote He howls n' stuff

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    Even with HEAT ammo, Sectopods are still the most threatening enemies in the game. Yes, I can take care of them. Doesn't mean they ain't horrible.

    I have PSI troops that haven't gone down. They don't suck, but they're still overrated. And honestly, having freakin' Majors and Colonels > having high Will soldiers.

    Ethereals have 145 will. Sectoid Commanders have 115 Will. Even Berserkers have 80.

    Assume you have a Rookie and the Iron Will promotion. That makes 7 ranks to gain. (In reality, six, since you have The New Guy by this point.)

    7*12 (12 being the very max Will gain per level you can get with Iron Will) = 84
    84 + 40 = 124

    I'm sorry, but the math just doesn't hold out. Psi troops are overrated because the relevant enemies (usually) just don't care about your puny human brainmeats. Yes, it's nice when you can MC a Muton Elite and have him waste his buddies for you, but that doesn't happen so often. And yes, you can buff Will, but now you're looking at two options to do something that should only take one.

    I will say Mindfray is fucking great, it's basically a way better Suppression. And that defense one is nice as hell. But panic and mind control? Totally overblown. You need someone custom made for that purpose and outfitted with psi armor to have a hope of MCing anything actually worth wasting a turn to control.

    Re: Sniper, I've actually never been in a situation where I desperately needed to crit someone and couldn't sneak up an Assault or use MORE ROCKETS instead. And no, I can't pretend that about a pistol, but that's kind of the thing: I don't need to do so with a Squadsight sniper. It's good enough to serve its purpose. And terrain... That's kind of a non-issue, like I pointed out earlier. Good positioning and MORE ROCKETS makes squadsight work almost always.

    As for Executioner and In The Zone... Frankly, I think the alternatives are far more useful in both cases. Despite taking Executioner, I literally never use it. To me, if I'm shooting at something almost dead with something as high powered as a plasma sniper rifle (or even laser, frankly), then I'm wasting my shot unless there's literally nothing better to shoot at, which is unlikely. And while In The Zone has great synergy with MOAR ROCKETS and can utterly demolish surprise Chrysallids/Berserkers, Double Tap is never NOT useful.

    And remember: I'm not arguing against Snipers set up that way in a vacuum. I'm arguing that it's more useful to give that slot to someone else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  20. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Sectopod corpses can only be used for Advanced Foundry Credit, which you arguably don't need.

    And you aren't blowing them all up with rocket launchers and grenades?

    That's because you're trying to play as an Ethereal. Stop trying to play as an Ethereal. You cannot be a mind wizard in this game. It is not possible. The fact that only one power besides the endgame one does any direct damage at all was your first clue that the psi-powers are supposed to be supplemental in nature. Human psi-powers supplement, debuff, and serve to counter some of the powers that can be leveled against your squad. They do not allow you to throw psychic fireballs. That is not your gig. If it was, then the game would have taken away your psychic soldier's ability to use their standard loadout. But they didn't. That's your indication that your main combat weapon remains the same. Psychic abilities supplement. That is all.

    Because you aren't giving your Psi-Soldiers Psi-Armor, apparently, because you didn't factor that into your math.

    That's like handing a ninja a fish and complaining when he has difficulty assassinating someone with it.

    Also, some soldiers naturally have higher will than others. Since your starter soldiers are listed as starting with apparently zero will, I'm confused by that as well. You aren't giving them Psi-Armor and you're using soldiers with a will of 0.

    Are you trying to field psychic-capable rocks?

    Psi-Armor is +30 Will (the game says 20, but it's wrong. It's 30). Then you add on Psi-Inspiration, which gives everyone in range +30 more for two turns. So that's a flat +30 you're missing from your calculations, and you can double that if you take the buff power. And you aren't factoring in starting Will, or that some soldiers gain will at an increased rate (which is your first sign that they might be psychic-capable).

    I have a Psi-Support soldier who has a Will of 210. That's with Psi-Armor, without Inspiration buffing him. Getting a good psychic soldier is about culling through a bunch of people with mild talents until you find somebody that's a goddamn genius. That's the person you make a permanent member of your squad.

    Hell, I ran through 20+ psychic recruits just to find him, and far more regular soldiers to find the psychic-capable ones. And I still didn't find what I was looking for, either. I wanted an Assault trooper with it, not a Support. Preferably female.

    tl;dr and sarcasm aside, you need to cull a pool of talent to find the gems. If you just field the first few Joes who ping as gifted, you're probably not going to have amazingly good psychics. Granted, the game doesn't tell you this, but then, this is X-COM. You're expected to figure it out for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
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