Disclaimer: I wrote this in pieces and I think the flow of my thoughts may have gotten confused at some point.

First off, we'' return to the "FUCK FUCK FUCK" portion of your argument. Now I may be wrong, but I see, not only a post between the one you linked and Sloth's most recent comment, but also that that comment, and the one preceding it only peripherally deal with the number of wolves; one is Sloth questioning Lyrium, another is Sloth answering a question from Mathblade, one is a comment on a gif from Lyrium and a request from answers, and then, #451 deals with number of wolves directly, in response to an ika quote. Mathblade's actual reaction to that can be found in #453. Which does not read as panicked to me, but here: https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721602&postcount=453
So though your quotation may be a reaction, it can't be submitted as being "knee-jerk" like you suggested.

Like I said though, I'll take the reaction into account. Edit: Found a similar admission to LochNess where you defend a bad post as a something given "knee jerkedly" #361 for reference. The double standard I'm interpreting as support for my argument about you presenting things in a bad light.

Moving forward - The tone change Titus and Snowvon have referenced is apparent and has been traced to an origin. That being said one of those is conf!town and the other may or may not be using that previously stated argument for towncred, or just to scum hunt.

I've got to re-evaluate Sloth's read on you as it was somewhat tied to his perception of Titus and ika. That and I accept the possibility for bias there and in my opinion he hasn't offered a solid defines for you yet. Technically, no one has that I can readily find.

"I thought TerRaine's early jump on LochNess looked more like opportunistic scum jumping on a reason to attack a townie than like distancing, if either of them are scum. I'm kind of skeptical that a LochNess + TerRaine team would be pushing each other in this way, but maybe. I lean town on TerRaine."

That's an early Rubicon quote that I'm not going to bother integrating properly. Yes, the situation with your LochNess jump was addressed, but just wanted to illustrate one of the things Titus pointed out about your reactions with Rubi. The above reads as inconsistent.

Up until you came up more often as a suspect, it's been pointed out that your views have been largely in line with everyone else's. Not scummy in and of itself, but definitely a way to stay under the radar and coast. Which is largely what you do D1, even if it is for RL reasons.

However, the act of trawling through this mess has made me less certain about my suspicions toward you. Actually, it really just made me more worried about others, but the net result is about the same.

UNVOTE

Plus, it feels dumb to vote without feeling out the new entries.

@Citrus: You made a note that if Maiden were to flip town you were going to look at me a lot closer. Did you ever follow through by chance?

Wrote this last night but didn't post for some reason. Now to address more rect activity

@Sloth: Reasoning for coming into the day like I did? I'm tired, exams are kicking my butt right now, and since I haven't met with much success yet, I was trying something new. It worked, I like TerRaine's responses and they weren't all that forthcoming until there was some pressure on her. I'm figuring out what works for me and having seen others use votes to pressure for a response I decided to try the same. Changing my methodology from one day to the next might be perceived as scummy, but considering this is my first game that last longer than half an hour I think it makes sense that my play would change. Same thing happened from D1 to D2, more active, mores questioning, more scum hunting.

As a caveat, my activity may go down a bit since I'm really trying to do well on my upcoming Chem exams.

@Delphie: My offsite experience is limited to around 10-20 rounds on dpicmafia.com. The experience doesn't even compare since over there, winning is pretty formulaic and considering the games last 30 minutes the depth of analysis is basically nil. In regard to the voting thing, it's been mentioned a few times; I'm wary of casting a vote because I perceived a level of finality to it that is obviously not really there. That and I'm not a fan of being wrong and mislynching, while an integral part of the game is not something I'm fond of.

@Mathblade: Yes, if I give an opinion here it will almost always include an air of doubt in it. I don't consider it necessary to add certainty to my claims unless I actually feel that certainty, and I think I've already said I don't trust myself to scumread or even townread accurately. Methodical is just how I think I guess, and considering the number of times I address myself and use possessive pronouns I don't see how you could interpret that post as distancing.

@Monochrome: You're missing some of my earlier reasoning for ika being scum, which basically amounted to being worried about the potential utility of his play style as either scum or as town. If you check early stuff after the re-roll there's at least a few people that questioned the authenticity of ika's banter in comparison to the first roll stuff, which at the time I took to be substance behind the argument that he was hiding behind his anti-town play. Also, my Maiden post took a while to finish and since I write these in the forum text editor I use tabs to go back to previous posts. So I missed Nightfall.

I think that's everything. Not sure how coherent this is but I can't really afford to devote much time on fixing it now.

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Also need to read this Rubi/Citrus thing since I still think one is a wolf.

 

Delphine: I explained it a couple posts up.

How? (assuming you're talking about my quote)

Lynch is probably between me and Citrus today, so yeah, go read our conversation please.

 

Another casualty of trying to put together an argument while tired. I didn't get the jump from pointing out something scummy to leaning town. I'm not quite sure how that happened, but you're correct, that makes sense

 

On second thought, you posting the detailed case even though a lynch had already gone through during Twilight 1 is in line with you not seeming to understand the distinction between Day 2 vs Twilight 2 vs Night 2. I'm fine with your elaboration

You didn't really answer what I was getting at though w/r/t my other question though. Why was ika scummy for focusing on 2 players and then supposedly 200 posts later scummy for changing his mind about which of them was more suspicious? Were you just mudslinging at him regardless or is there something in particular that I'm missing?

 

I think I was responding to a hypothetical "if she's scum" question, but I'd have to go back and check

 

Rubi, I've reread the pages 67 and 68 three times and I can't find the explanation.

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sorry <_<.

 

The confusion about scum QTs struck me as a genuine question in context. I dunno, people here are really skeptical about stuff like that and what MathBlade did earlier. It's player dependent. Some players, you see something like that and write it off as null since you know they could and would fake it. Others, you just apply Occam's Razor and say they're probably just town. This goes more for MathBlade than TerRaine, since that line from TerRaine is a small thing - but given the rest of TerRaine's play...

If you read the past two pages, come vote Citrus with me?

 

"On the note of scum hunting, you seem to be focused more on Snow and Maiden, basically to the exclusion of everyone else. Whereas last round you definitely asked around a bit more than that. Any reasons?"

I'll point out that none of this says it's a reason for him being scummy, those are mentioned earlier in the post you referenced. This is just a question about why his method of questioning has changed.

"I'm leaning for the Maiden vote, even though Sloth makes a decent case against, there's more I've seen for it. If that goes through and Maiden flips town, my next suspect for scum would be ika, for the reasons I've already said and for changing his suspicions from Snow to Maiden really quick."

Reasons I've already said references #'s 485 and 497 (response to 495). Look again and you'll find ika tunnelling Snowvon for quite a bit before switching to a Maiden vote. Sorta similar to D2 when he jumps around fishing for a wagon imo.

 

@Rubi - uh, if a couple of other experienced players (or my mentor) back you up that that's a legit towntell I'll buy it, but I don't actually know how wolf discussion works here well enough to get it.

As I mentioned in my opening post, I was expecting more active scumhunting/better content from Citrus in general this game based on his experience level and how I've seen him elsewhere. What gives me pause is #1224 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=723473&postcount=1224) and a couple of other particularly emotional posts that sounded genuine to me.

Is there a way to look at the posts of a particular player in isolation? B/c that'd help a lot.

 

Can't really post much tonight but yes there is.

Click on Little Italy then where you see the game thread go over to the right to the replies column. Click on the 1369 and a popup will come up with a user and how many posts. Click on the number of posts they have for a breakdown.

 

F-bombs and all upper case is easy to fake. Scum AtE. If anything the "rage" at us mislynching ika looks scummy to me (distancing from it).

 

Wow I said the word fucking a lot there.

I'll be here in a few hours, and I'll respond to you then Rubicon

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Why would I need to distance from something I disagreed with in the first place?

 

Any of them? Or are we specifically talking about your last post to him?

? at the bolded.

You have the second highest post count in the thread and I hate you for it. Do you remember around what page it was on?

My thought process was: "scum!Rubicon want Citrus ML. Titus say no. Night. Shoot Titus. Profit." Ignore me.

Okay, I went back and read your wall like three times and it's starting to make sense to me. What did you mean when you said my interactions with Citrus were iffy? Scummy or just confusing?

Yeah we'll see.

Unvote

Current votals please.

What's the likelihood of mbond being scum? Since it's hard for anyone to spot a scumpair in any of the active players. Sloth already did possible partnerships and most of them aren't very telling. Also it'd be really funny if we lynched active scum and the partner spent all Night inactive.

((for real though, does anyone know why he hasn't posted yet?))

 

err oh god, DL is in a little over 16 hours. just now conceptualizing that :| and there's no sign of life from the other replacement? are like prods a thing here or ? cuz if that slot's town and modkilled then due to numbers it's somewhat irrelevant that i bothered replacing in since we lose a lynch regardless, but oh well.

re - the FBOMB post - i really fuckin need to reread Day 2 and look @ everyone's ika stances. You could be right that that's suspicious in the context of his apparent switch off of ika; idr. If anyone's around and their head isn't exploding and willing to discuss this subject w/ me then <333

Snowvon, I didn't address you more initially because my stance on you is pretty boring and I'm on information overload. did Atum's explanation for his change in voting patterns satisfy you? Why do you think MB wouldn't kill Titus in that case / why is that enough of a tell in and of itself to get you to PoE her to town? Also, have you played w Citrus b4? What can you tell me about his meta?

I'm fine w what I just got out of Atum and should probably move my vote soon. I'd like to hear back from Sloth about what we were discussing earlier

Actually, Rubicon, I'll take you up on metaing you if you actually link me. I'm not positive I'll have time but I'll try to make some

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weird that snowvon ninja'd me and also mentioned mb89's nonexistence. lol

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man does anyone with experience with MathBlade know what to make of how like buddybuddy she's being towards me?

 

Looking forward to it, scum!Citrus. I'll be here all day.

Snow: The wall in #1336 talks about why Citrus would kill Titus.

It's often harder to get scum lynched because the scum team is actively working to stop you and/or at the very least they don't contribute their votes. /shrug

I guess both, since I didn't see anything town in his response to me.

Like, Citrus is a good enough player that he's not going to just not respond to me. He went back and forth with Kalas for pages in the Dresden game he was scum in.

Was there something he said that struck you as town? Nothing struck me that way.

Partly the lack of interactions - he calls you town a lot early on and occasionally yells at you to do something or whatever. He doesn't seem to be scumhunting you, though. He switches to calling us both scum around the same time. A while back he said he was convinced one of {you, me} was scum and if e.g. I flipped scum we should lynch you (which is scummy enough on its own).

I'm undecided on whether that's something he would do with a buddy, and there's not much else there to separate you. Thus "iffy".

If Delphine is town? High, imo.

mbond98 = MrBond on DLP's IRC channel, and he's been talking on there today.

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Delphine: Hang on, I'll grab links to my most recent scum games.

 

@Monochrome

I suppose, considering all I was asking was for him to explain a little bit more. His reasoning feels flaky but it's not so bad that I want to immediately lynch him. Although TerRaine did ask him to elaborate on why he agreed/disagreed with her scumread of me and he never did that.

It probably isn't enough to really townfirm her. Maybe I'm thinking about this incorrectly. MathBlade was so sure Titus was scum and was very clear about it near the end of yesterDay, and then Titus is shot. I know someone pointed it out, how if Titus was NK'd it would look bad for MathBlade. Maybe it was Titus? I need to keep notes on things like this. Ugh. Out of remaining active players, she doesn't strike me as scummy, tstl.

I've only played with Citrus once (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=26110). He was town, but the game's circumstances were pretty...unfortunate.

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Oh, duh. I even read over it multiple times and still asked. For some reason I thought you meant a different post from earlier.

Not really. Hence my apprehensiveness.

Weren't you doing the same thing?

Around what page? I didn't notice that.

Your example is he thinks one (1) of us is scum, so if you were to flip scum I should also be lynched? Also I thought that was something people did all the time with what appears to be unaligned pairs. Take one out or leave them be depending on the flip of the other. (Not immediately, though.)

That's really annoying.

 

Recent town games: Brass & Tax Mafia, WIFOM City: The Spirit Tunnels, Mini 1535

Recent DLP scum games: WitchHunt 3, TinyHunt3

Recent MafiaScum scum games (I've been lurking a lot in my MS games lately so I'm not sure how useful these are):
Imaginary Fights, Left 4 Dead Mafia, Mean Girls Mafia (replaced into scummy slot), Doctor Who Mafia (older but I'm proud of it)

My town game is worlds better than my scum game at the moment. I don't personally think I'm capable of playing the way I have in this game as scum - I decided to deliberately be obvtown when Titus started tunneling me.

Snow: He said that in #1348. Unaligned pairs are two players who aren't knowingly aligned i.e. on the same scum team. I get suspicious when players set up dichotomies of "if X is town, Y is scum and vice versa" unless there's something like a counterclaim involved, because it looks like an attempt to lead into later mislynches when I flip town. That said, this is the weakest reason to think Citrus is scum and I'd think he were scum even if he'd never said it - I only brought it up as an interaction between you two.

--

I'm going to bed now. I'll respond to whatever standard scum bullshit Citrus posts in the morning.

Everyone else should take a position on me and him. And if you're going to vote one of us, explain why as clearly as possible. Own your votes.

 

Scum bullshit my ass

Bad news, my Internet went out (fuck comcast) and my Internet connection is spotty enough where I am that it's a miracle this post uploaded after multiple copy paste attempts. If it's not up tmrw I'll log in from a public access point and be here as much as I'm able / make the posts I promised

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I'm intrigued by the fact that you say your scum game is that bad Rubicon, and I'll try to look through the posted games as soon as I have the ability

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FUCK YES

Internet came back right as I was going to call it quits. I shall post soon enough

 

...so I just reread Day 2 and I'm confused why Rubicon was suddenly pretty certain of Citrus !wolf w/ like no reasoning, whereas I pretty much follow Citrus's D2 stance.

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no stated reasoning*

 

Quick note, Riley recruited me to replace Dermon, who had RL issues to deal with.

I've been waiting to catch up, but thats taking forever, so I figured I should hurry up and post something.

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On the experience front, I've played some Mafia and Werewolf in IRC, but never PbP. PbP has a lot more intrique, its an excellent step up.

Those of you who don't hang out on IRC probably don't know remember me, I was active on the forum a few years ago, and now mostly keep to IRC.