Considering that Butcher slowed down a little his writing, I would say that the beginning of 2016 is the earliest possible date.

 

Bought it and finished it today and I loved most of all of it immensely but to sum it up briefly in no particular order
Pros:
1. The Parasite being Harry and Lashs kid, never would have guessed that or that the housing he made for Bob would end up being his daughters. I can't wait to see their interaction as well as her and Maggie's interactions at some future point.
2. Grey, he and Harry's entire plan with hiring him completely took me by surprise and I loved it. A badass character that I want to see more of and an honestly shocking display foresight from Harry that was awesome. Definitely going to be rereading this to try and piece together what was said through code.
3. Mab, Marcone and Hades scale of a holy shit fuck you revenge on Nicodemus. It was masterful in the stunning extreme. There's getting back at someone but tricking him into willingly murdering his own daughter in cold blood? That's on a whole new scale.
4. Michael getting back in the action and kicking all of the ass, other Knights are cool especially Sanya but nobody but nobody screams Fist of God like Michael Carpenter in battle mode.
5. Maggie was fantastic and I loved Dresdens interactions with her in every scene, that's all I can really say about that.
More will come to me later while I process.

Cons:
1. Butters, I normally love the little guy but honestly? I didn't like him much at all this book. Polka Will Never Die > Batman/Jedi wannabe.
2. Lightsaber Sword of the Cross, honestly? I was disappointed, I never really minded the pop culture stuff when Butcher kept it to purely references and mental realms where crazy shit is completely acceptable but turning one of the holiest artifacts in existence into a Lightsaber and having an Archangel be a fan was just too over the top for me.

 

Okay, had a bit more time to think about it and some stuff bothers me a little here. I mean, on top of some of the Butters stuff that was mentioned, I'm really starting to hate Marcone? Yes, he's a smart, normal human--but he has slowly been edging into being Batman. I really hate the 'Badass Normal' bloat and stuff; look at the first book, where he was smart, cold, and intelligent--but also ignorant of a lot of stuff and aware of that. That was good. Great even. And he was even better in the second! He was outright scared of what was coming after him, as he should be, and it colored his actions in that book even with his calm and control.

But since...DM? He's been edging into this always calm, always controlled, flawless genius mastermind. I'm not talking about getting Gard--yeah, that makes sense and he was looking for a consultant even before then. But Marcone himself? He's just been getting...eh.

But more than that, the biggest issue is probably Nicodemus. Don't get me wrong, Nicodemus had some great moments in this book, just fantastic showings with so many people. But now that I've had time to mull it over? There are some issues.

The Gate of Blood was an amazing scene, but it also has a lot of problems. Essentially it worked like this: Someone died and then they had to push the lever. This led to a heart-breaking moment when Dierdre took the knife willingly. Okay.

But what about Nicodemus' legion of fanatics. None of them could have done it? I mean, we saw what they would do for him. A lot of them killed themselves before speaking to his enemies. He couldn't have any of them die instead?

And then, he left Harry alive and stuff. I mean, before the Gate of Ice, Harry went on about how he closed the gate to fuck up Nicodemus' plan since they wouldn't be able to escape without him...except, because he's smart, Nicodemus had two other ways of opening a portal. So...why keep Harry alive? Mab couldn't spy on him there and Evil Bigfoot had Harry dead to rights. Even if Grey turned on him right there, there was no way Harry could have survived that fight and then it would have been Nicodemus and Hannah vs. Michael until Ursiel took out Grey. Why not betray them then?

And then there's the other fights in question like attacking the Winter Lady's family. Why? Seems like he's a bit to smart for that.

And then there's the Master of Shadows ignorance of so much concerning how Marcone works when he's always been so smart and prepared on that front, up to now. Hell, he always seemed to have Marcone's number and understand him. So why the fuck ups, here?

There's also the rule-layering stuff, too. I mean, you'd figure it'd be a bit harder to rules-lawyer a guy with a Fallen Angel as back up, but I guess not. And apparently he forgot to save up the Barbarus Curse for this year, despite his super-huge epic-teir plan.

And so on. Essentially, it feels like Nicodemus lost here because he wasn't the main character, which seems wrong for such a strong character.

Still a good book, but fridge logic is getting to me a bit.

 

About the Dierdre or fanatics thing Im willing to put money on that being that part of Mabs plan leaking that whoever was killed had to actually mean something to him. I don't recall it being stated anywhere but that would make more sense than anything else to me, how else to get him to off her since that was clearly one of their goals from the start?

 

I think that, except for not getting the specific artifact he wanted and Dresden surviving, Nicodemus actually did everything he planned on. Bringing a spare is such an obvious miss that I doubt both Butcher and his betas made it.

More likely, there was a reason he killed Deirdre then and there and we just don't know it yet.

Like you said, I dislike the fact that Butters prevailed just because otherwise, he'd die. What was to stop Tessa from tossing a thunderbolt through his chest? Or Nicodemus to toss the shards of his sword at him, as he has already displayed an ability of doing?

I loved Butters picking up the coat. It was such an awesome moment, that it really didn't deserve to end being so goofy and silly. Someone should've died in that fight and since I really don't think it should be a Carpenter, that leaves Butters.

It really would've underlined him finally making a stand even more.

 

This book reminds me of Grave Peril in a lot of ways. I think we'll look back on this book at the end of the line and see it as the starting point for the next few major plot lines.

 

If I had one big problem with this book, it's what you just said. Though maybe Nicodemus was aware of the whole setup by Mab, Marcone and Hades against him and did it anyway because he's desperate to save the world? And depending on how you interpret his last words to Deirdre he may killed her to protect her from something even worse than whatever punishment Hades will give her.

 

I wouldn't take his words so literally. While he claims to want to save the world, it could be that he's being misled by Anduriel into believing he's the good guy. He's also claimed that he would eventually be known as a Saint, so he obviously thinks he's the hero of his own story. On top of that he and Deirdre refer to God/Angels as the Enemy so unless we've been severely misled over the true nature of the divine beings in Dresden Files, chances are Nicodemus is working with some incredibly biased information.

Especially since he's the partner of the freaking Master of Shadows.

 

skin games:

in which harry dresden in a victim of mindf*ckery by at least 3 definitions of the phrase.

on another note... *puts on tinfoil hat* we know from the 3 coins that were turned in that the Church is corrupt. now granted, there could be some currently-unknown higher tier of authority where this could be happening... but if we follow the Law of Conservation of Detail....

...is Father Forthill one of them? that would make me sad :<

 

Well, Nicodemus seems to be strongly opposed to the Black Council and their goals, whatever they may be. I wonder if Dresden ever is going to gaze him.

To be honest, this might just be a continuation of the whole issue between God and Lucifer. They both want roughly the same thing, but they've elected different paths to get there. Didn't he say in Small Favor that he'd explain it all to Harry once they'd "Cleared some of those well-intentioned fools out of his way."

And yeah, Deirdre's attitude and her sacrifice seems to suggest that there is a larger goal ahead that would be worthy of her sacrificing her life over.

 

Doesn't make much sense. I mean, the Gate works--and Nicodemus knew it worked--as follows: Someone has to die and their soul then has to pull the lever. He knew that. And Harry apparently got to him with the words that he had no one else to pull the lever and Mab's revenge was, supposedly, to make him kill his daughter, which was the worst thing she could think of doing him.

Within that context, this makes absolutely no fucking sense. I mean, there's something to be said for the Enemy bit, but even then, it's hard to imagine someone like Hades actually being a real defense against any of the people likely to be the Enemy. I mean, what's he gonna do if God or the Outsiders or whoever wants her? No much.

And if it was legitimately a way of keeping his daughter safe, somehow...well, that works. That makes sense. And it makes sense that it would still hurt Nicodemus.

But, uh, how the fuck did Harry get that much under his skin then? And how is this the best way to hurt him? I mean, it takes his daughter away from him, sure, but protects her from worse things--and, honestly, badass though he might be, if there's ever a competition to see who gets Deedee's soul and we have pissed off, motivated, resolved Papa Nicodemus in one corner with all the coins and the Holy Grail and we have Hades as his opponent?

Honestly, I'll bet on Nicodemus walking over his corpse to get his daughter's soul.

(So I suppose that I could actually change my view on this down the road, depending on how horrifically it backfires for Mab, Marcone, and Hades.)

 

Why betray them then, when you don't know what's on the other side of the door?

Don't betray them and they'll almost certainly[HD was still under obligation] assist you should there be some beast/guards inside the main vault.

Or betray them before and possibly end up with some injuries before you're 100% sure you don't have any more battles to fight.

Nic was probably 90% certain he had them dead to rights either way - leaving them alive seems like it would have given him more of an advantage walking into that vault.

But

I was definitely thinking the same thing about it being stupid to attack the Winter Lady's family residence. Was half expecting her to show up last minute and start dishing out some ass whoopin. But Nic has been shown to not really care about these things (like the time he kidnapped Ivy).

 

Except that Nicodemus almost certainly knew quite a bit more about what happens inside the vault then he let on...to the point that Harry repeatedly noted that Nicodemus almost certainly knew quite a bit more about what happens inside the vault then he let on.

Beyond which, let's think about this. Nicodemus explicitly brought Ursiel to deal with that shit. He also knew that the inside of the vault was very probably safe. He also knew from the very beginning that Harry and Michael would betray him. He faced a decision; proceed forward with two known threats he had at his mercy in a time and place where he could kill them right then and there or kill them and proceed with his allies, which included a powerful warlock, a shapeshifting badass that he thought he had, Ursiel, and his unkillable self.

But okay, let's assume that he does want to be sure that there are no more threats by walking through the door and such. Sure.

Which part of that requires letting go of the people he had at his mercy? Ursiel could carry Harry in one hand and kill him with a flex of his fingers if needed. Why does Nick need to let him go? Walk in, check for things that are gonna kill you, and if nothing pops up, crush Harry's head like a grape and murder Michael.

Regardless of what choice he makes, there's really no reason to let Harry walk around, especially not with his weapons.

When he did that, though, he always had a plan to make sure that it was actually a safe bet. Here he just charged in guns ablazing and he didn't even really do it well. I mean, take the Charity thing when he did the whole 'And I'll make you watch as I murder your children!'

That's great and all and Nicodemus would do that...if it didn't interfere with his plans. In this case, however, why not grenade it? Why not Assault Rifle the building. I mean, the flash bangs and stuff were good and all, but this is Nicodemus here--fuck, he was using Molotov Cocktails at the end, IIRC.

The Nicodemus I remembered, if he was angry enough to do so, would have murdered everyone in that house in about a minute.

 

Most grenades don't burn, they explode. Even white phosphorous grenades aren't very good for starting a house fire, they're directed charges intended to burn through a specific target. A glass bottle full of gasoline is low tech, but will burn a house down as opposed to shooting shrapnel or burning a very specific area of ground. Fragmentation grenades aren't as effective in real life as they appear to be in movies. They tear the fuck out of a couple yards and that's about it.

And assault rifles aren't going to do shit against a hardened panic room.　There is no way in hell Michael didn't splurge on a deluxe model either, protecting his children is priority #1 in his life. The whole point of the panic room is to delay any would be burglar from being able to reach you in the time it would take for the police to arrive. Even a modest panic room is going to be able to withstand an hour or so of punishment from anything short of anti-tank stuff. However hardened a panic room in a domestic residence might be, however, it is not immune to the structural damages inflicted by a fire. Burn down the support beams and it will likely collapse - crushing the occupants therein or literally cooking them alive like an cement and steel oven.

Remember that killing the children is key to his whole "twisted revenge" schtick. He's trying to get in, start a house fire, kill as many of them as are possible while they're trying to stop the building holding their children from immolating, and get out of there before swat or mystical back up shows up to make his life harder - ideally killing them all before leaving.

 

I figure that the Gate of Blood probably requires a sacrifice more specific than just a random dead person. Let's look at the information that we know about the Gate

1) Nicodemus was worried enough about Michael convincing Deidre not to go through with the plan that he created a whole production just to get him out of the way. So the Gate probably requires a willing sacrifice (duh: the sacrificed person then has to pull the lever, a murder victim is probably hard to convince to assist).

2) With everything we know about Nicodemus, if he could have it be a random person he would. Especially since it's been repeatedly shown that he cares about her. Combined with the fact that the name is the Gate of Blood, and not the Gate of Death, and the most likely outcome is that the Gate required the willing sacrifice of a blood relative.

Tessa was attempting to stop Nicodemus from sacrificing her child. Once it was done she had nothing left than to return to work with Nicodemus.

And for all intents and purposes, Nicodemus won. Yes it was a pyrrhic victory that cost him much more than he'd expected, but he walked away with the Grail. He doesn't know about the other four relics. Everything he does after the heist is a hastily thrown together assault to hurt Dresden. And walking into the fight, he has all of the advantages. If not for literal Divine Intervention via lightsaber and a Foo dog he had no idea is there, he wins this fight too.

Nicodemus got outplayed, but it's not because he made bad moves. It's because he just got beaten.

 

I've just realized that at some point, We're going to get Kincaid and Grey on the same team. That sounds all kinds of great.

Hell, throw Thomas in there too for some drama. He'll hate Kincaid for shooting Harry, and be terrified of Grey because he's a skinwalker.

 

Holy shit no. You might want to research grenades a little bit more, maybe.

1) A bunch of grenades can be used to start fires, such as, say, Incendiary Grenades.

2) I don't know where the fuck you got your measurements from, but the standard 'If your within this range, you'll die for sure' for a frag is about ten feet. The 'You'll almost certainly die or be injured enough to cease to be a threat' is about three times that. Individual fragments, however, can travel as far as 230 meters. If you're indoors, multiply those by two or three.

If you're within 'a couple yards' of a frag grenade, you'll die. If your in the same room as a frag grenade, you'll die. If you're on the same floor of a building as a frag grenade, the odds are against you.

Movies tend to undersell grenades.

Ehem.

No.

And there were a bunch of better ways of doing it then this.

We know exactly how it works. It's not about killing someone you love at all, in fact. It's about someone being willing to die to let the others through.

It could have been anyone. Nicodemus just needed them to pull the lever--which any of his fanatics would do.

No, there was a fair amount of stupid involved, too. More then Nicodemus has ever shown.

 

Don't give up hope, Erandil. This book certainly didn't kill Harry/Molly. If anything it made it even more likely. One of Harry's reasons for not trying to get together with Molly was rendered useless, Harry's id even pointed it out. Also, seems like Michael probably wouldn't be too against it or at least not enough to punch Harry for fucking his daughter...considering that Molly being Michael's daughter was another reason Harry had against being with her... Also, Michael pointed out that Harry's anger at Murphy's injury was only as much as his angry would be if any of his other friends was hurt suggests that he doesn't love her as a lover. For example, Michael would almost certainly be more angry is Charity was hurt than he would be if Harry was hurt. Harry/Murphy is a relationship that is doomed, only a matter of time for them to realize that they won't work in the long run paving the way for Harry/Molly. :awesome

/Possibly a deluded Harry/Molly shipper.