But he's sorry!

 

Naruto has rarely not forgiven anyone, even when it's retarded to though.

Id still much rather him and Hokage than someone who wanted to burn it down 2 days ago though.

 

We have had confirmation now that Obito was one of the smallest cogs in a conflict that stretches back eons before his birth, fought by countless people who had no idea what the cosmic significance of their actions was.

Obito was still prepubescent (not to mention physically and emotionally crippled) when Madara came out of the woodwork to finish raping his psyche, warping him so badly that he was hardly even Obito anymore. I mean, for goodness sake, he stopped even referring to himself as Obito and became Madara jr., Madara himself having been something of a puppet in the greater scheme of history orchestrated by Black Zetsu.

Is it really so bad for Naruto to show him some compassion? It's not like Naruto said he was the greatest hero of all time or anything. All he did was acknowledge the tragedy of someone who had once been rather like himself.

 

I agree with what you're saying but I think Kishi's lesson here is that people can be redeemed and showing Obito getting something that he deserves as the antagonist would go against his whole, break the cycle of hatred thing.

To Naruto, as far as he's concerned, Obito redeemed himself and I guess that's what Kishimoto is trying to show his young readers.

You have to remember that this story is geared towards kids and teenagers. As an adult you can understand how this doesn't work, how Naruto is losing touch with reality and stuff but for the kids, I say let them have it.

 

You might even consider Naruto a bit of a mastermind in this situation. Without offering anything even resembling forgiveness or amnesty, he convinced one of the staunchest villains not only to aid his team in rather significant capacities, but to sacrifice his life in the attempt, not out of any kind of hope of total redemption, but by playing on his most primeval desires and ambitions, from before the time he was ruthlessly manipulated by the enemy.

"Hmm . . . maybe if you sacrifice yourself, you won't look like such a douche. I mean, we can't forgive you, but we'll remember how you realized you were wrong and selflessly gave your life to save ours."

He never said Obito would be forgiven or that there was some great future in store for him. He just said being Hokage meant being a shield for everyone else, and Obito took that and ran with it all the way to the benefit of . . . everyone but Obito.

Naruto basically took lemons and made lemonade.

 

@Afrojack, If only Naruto was that intelligent. I'd read the mess out of a story like that. All his power of peace rhetoric is just a master plan to take over.

@QuickBen, I think you hit on exactly why this irritates me so much. The audience is 9-14 year olds and I get that. However I will strongly state that the fiction and movies I read during those years greatly shaped my world view. My world view has changed a lot since then, but they formed a solid foundation.

Essentially what this does, is teach a generation of kids that villains can escape punishment. That no one is truly evil, they are just a product of their circumstances. It's essentially saying, "Hitler wasn't really a bad guy. His life and country just really sucked so it was okay for him to kill all those jews."

At its core, this kind of fiction trains generations of Neville Chamberlains when in reality we should be training our youth to be Winston Churchill's. Just my two cents.

 

Naruto is intelligent. Maybe he wasn't thinking about the situation the way I put it, but he saw Obito not for what he was just at that moment, but the whole being. He saw the good that was left in him, the good there could have been and once was. And to some extent, we are all a product of our circumstances. We still have free will, but life isn't that black and white or that cut and dry.

Obito was ruthlessly manipulated as a child, and he died trying to right his wrongs. No one absolved him of his crimes, and no one said that what he had done was okay. Free from Madara, he was an entirely different person. He experienced great tragedy, and someone he trusted twisted him into something he wasn't at an age when most people would agree that he wasn't ready to think or judge properly for himself. And that's in addition to all he went through. Compassion and understanding is not a bad thing to teach children, even with regard to criminals.

Hitler never turned around and gave his life in the attempt to dismantle his war machine. How does this teach anyone that no one is truly evil? Seems a bit extreme, as is the idea that Obito caused the entire war.

If anything, all it's teaching kids is that Obito wasn't purely evil. And so far as we know, considering all we now know, he wasn't. He was misguided and he committed atrocities, yes, and deserved to be punished. But purely evil? No.

 

Without Obito, none of this would have happened. Regardless of manipulation, he chose his path. Cause does not equal justification. Just as a man murdering someone because they raped his daughter is a cause, does not mean he can get out of prison. In much the same way, Obito's reasoning for doing all this cannot and should not allow him to be viewed as a good guy. He might of been manipulated and pushed, but he still had the opportunity to choose between right and wrong. Multiple times before starting this war.

And while I agree that just taking this one character in of itself is not enough to make that argument...the entirety of the Manga as a whole points to that. Obito is just the creme of the Crop since he did the worst deeds.

Edit: Weird editing instead of responding, but it's cool. I'll respond like this. I agree that compassion and such are good things to teach, but the way this is written practically absolves Obito of all wrong-doing. While the facts you state are correct...the way in which Kishimoto writes this for (using your words) people who are not at an age to think or judge properly for themselves conveys that point.

I have no problem with a villain shown to be human. The best villains are the ones that have motivations that you can identify with. Obito doesn't have that. He lost his girl. Listened to some old man he barely knew convince him to destroy the world. Carried that with him for years. Killed his own Sensei and his wife. Killed his own clan. Every person in this war who has died is because he started it all. And just because he is 'sorry' he gets to be written as a hero to the kids? Knowing Kishimoto his name will be inscribed on the Hero's monument if he doesn't somehow get resurrected.

 

The way I see it is, he isn't being pardoned so much as he is being forgiven on his deathbed. If he had lived, he wouldn't have come back to party with the rest of them, there would be consequences, but since he's dying, and dying in such a manner at that, Naruto's willing to forgive him his sins and accept that he died trying to fix what he caused. It doesn't make what he did right, but it acknowledges his chance and his desire for redemption.

 

I hadn't seen your response yet when I was editing, and I didn't want to double-post. It was also a touchy subject I was writing about in a sleepy mindset.

My apologies.

 

To be technical, Obito's name is already inscribed on the monument. They'd have to like, take it off or something.

 

I think it's fine that Obito got redemption so long as he remains dead. I don't know why you guys think it's such bullshit that Naruto still cares about his enemies -- that's why everyone who's not fucking insane wants him to be Hokage.

Look, the whole point of Naruto is that he's supposed to bring an end to the cycle of hatred: that's the prophecy. The hero you need isn't another badass, amoral shinobi like Sasuke. You need someone whose views and morality aren't the norm. Naruto has the godlike strength to make people see his way. But you know what?

He doesn't have to force anyone to do anything. He makes people love him. He makes people want to do the right thing. When have you ever met anyone that powerfully convincing? When have you ever convinced anyone in your life to change what they believe in?

Naruto does that everyday of his life. Sure it might not be up your alley, but why do you want everything in fiction and reality to be so goddamn depressing.

 

I'm cool with Naruto forgiving him. Less so with him tearing up over Obito's death and claiming that was an awesome guy.

 

Next thing you know Naruto will be calling Kaguya Baa-San and forgiving her too.

 

I'm not asking for grim-dark. I'm asking for realism and actually having a villain stay a villain and suffer the consequences of being a villain.

Naruto when it first started out was a cool show about ninjas and a desire to become Hokage. Neat. I like that. Show me more about this world.

Then it became Godlike beings and the second coming of Jesus attempting to force everyone into peace and harmony.

This is no longer about cool ninjas. It's about two God's fighting over what philosophy must be forced over the people to stop fighting. Yet what gives them the right to force their philosophies on people.

That's why Sasuke's the only hope for a realistic take on this manga. He's the only one who has been able to resist Naruto's Talk-no-jutsu. He is the only chance humanity has for freedom to make their own decisions. (This paragraph is humor btw)

 

Gai for Hokage 2014, better than Sasuke or Naruto

 

Naruto not hating Obito is staying In Character for Naruto. The thing that actually pissed me off a tad was Naruto tearing up over his death. There has been a lot of crying going on, unshed tears and so on(in the last 30 chapters or so) - and it got old really fast.

Kishi is laying it a bit thick with the emotions.

 

The ninja world is fucked up. All the strongest members of the next generation are homocidal or idiotic.

Naruto's goal was to be Hokage...but when have we ever seen him lead in any capacity? He shows up and kicks ass. He inspires with senseless words.

But he's never led. He's never been an administrator. He's a Jiraiya type if that.

*shrug*

 

Tbh Naruto's goal to be Hokage was pretty childish in that he wanted to be acknowledged; over the years it's also mutated into protecting his "precious people" (or whatever corny phrase is popular now).

He's never been into the "leading by doing" bit as much, never mind administration. He inspires. That's what the world needs, not another administrator to keep up the status quo.

Note that I'm not offering my opinion on the quality or viability of his inspiration... only what Kishimoto is trying to show.

 

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/688/3
I just don't know...