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Where is Magic?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Andrela, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    I think this one deserves its own thread, as we have no official statement from Rowling or Books/Pottermore.

    Where is magic 'located'? I get that in the Potterverse, magic is conceptual and not quantifiable but it must come from somewhere.

    Is it like the Force from Star Wars in that it exists everywhere?

    Is it in another dimension which magical beings/creatures and objects have the ability to tap into?

    I'm sure it doesn't exist inside wizards and witches, because there are lots of magical animals and naturally-magical objects that would disprove that.

    I seem to recall an explanation somewhere from the depths of the internet where someone argued that the source of magic is inside the Earth's core and that some planets are magical while others are not.

    I myself prefer to think of it like the Force, except you can't run out of it as it is an infinite resource.
     
  2. Radmar

    Radmar Disappeared

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    Where is love? Or hate? I don't know. I am not a doctor. I also think that it doesn't really matter. But since you're asking... I like to think that magic is result of normal brain activity, but only in wizards and witches, not muggles. As I see it, there is some switch inside of wizard's brain that turns magic on.

    This is the reason why I don't like Star Wars as much as I could have. I like Harry Potter world because it is filled with people that can do pretty much anything that strikes their fancy. It's that little place that I can retreat to from reality, to be superior person without lowly 'human' troubles. But when someone says that magic is everywhere, this whole concept of wizards and magic looses much of its fancy to me, because when it's everywhere, it also means that everyone has it, including us, but is accessible only to wizards. That seems like wizards are not so special now. Yes, wizards have magic, but I have it too, only I can't access it. That's like giving me false hope, or something. It's stupid. When only wizards have magic, they are special and interesting. Let's keep it that way, please.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  3. Clerith

    Clerith Ahegao Emperor ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    This is one of the core issues of magical theory, and it's been discussed before, and a fair bit at that.

    That said, since there are magical creatures and phenomena such as prophesies, I don't quite agree that magic is something generated by brain activity.

    I consider it quite something akin to the Force as well.
     
  4. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Magic comes from that place where extra stuff comes from a la Banach-Tarski.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I don't think speaking of magic as having a location makes much sense, even though you see instances of magic at work in the world.

    It's like asking where the number 4 is.
     
  6. Nauro

    Nauro Headmaster

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  7. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Where is magic?

    It's right behind you - don't look!

    Darn. You scared it away.

    More topic-related: how do they know which creatures are magical? I mean, it's easy when you see a dragon or a Demiguise (or rather, you don't see one), but where was the line drawn to mark 'Kneazle = yes, Narwhal = no'?
     
  8. Odran

    Odran Fourth Champion

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    A big ole magical core, naturally, that is actually the Earth itself.

    Or, yknow, between 3 and 5.

    And now seriously... from where do the various magical creatures come? It would sort of tie into this question, wouldn't it?
     
  9. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    This issue is addressed in detail in Fantastic Beasts.
     
  10. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    This issue was mentioned as occupying the attention of committees for several weeks back in 1692, but the actual requirements for inclusion aren't laid out.
     
  11. mknote

    mknote 1/3 of the Note Bros. DLP Supporter

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    I'll present a little of my own theory, but the long and short of it is that it is very much like the Force of Star Wars. I won't present any details because, frankly, I haven't fleshed out the theory to have any.

    Essentially, there is a field that permeates the entire universe. This field can be manipulated by certain beings to create a wide variety of effects. These effects vary by just how the field is manipulated: twist it this way and anyone touched by the effect dies; twist it that way and they're merely knocked out. The manipulation of the field and the effects caused by such are what is known as magic.

    I'll admit, a lot of this comes from my need to have magic and science to be related in some way. In my interpretation, this field could be studied by non-magicals and perhaps even manipulated to a limited degree, and the field would act in a way that makes sense, insofar that outcomes could be determined by knowing the initial conditions; i.e., it can be tested. However, such an interpretation isn't integral to the base theory itself, so it could be adapted by people who don't share my more advanced ideas of magic.

    But yes, magic would be the manipulation and effect of a universal field that only some people are capable of manipulating for... reasons. It's a lot like the Force in that regard, though without midi-chlorians. I haven't fleshed it out any further, but for the purposes of my story, I probably have more than enough of it understood.
     
  12. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    We know that magic, when it is used by wizards, is responsive to a number of concepts, abstract or otherwise, that we would describe as being 'human.' When it is used by something like Goblins or Centaurs, however, it is different.

    I would say that when it comes to Magical Beings (as opposed to Magical Creatures), the magic used by a particular being, however that being is capable of using it (genetics, etc), is responsive to consciousness. The quality or nature of consciousness possessed or experienced by that being determines the nature of its magic. In that sense, for beings endowed with the ability to use magic, magic comes from consciousness.

    What that means, however, is that there is no one, pervasive, unified thing called magic. Rather, there are different types of magic utilized by beings with differing forms of consciousness. 'Magics,' if you will.
     
  13. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    In my mind, magic is not a unified force/energy/anything. Rather, what is referred to as "magical power" is actually a massively diverse set of natures/properties/relationships.

    Under this reading, absolutely everything in the universe has magical significance. There's magic in a smile, in music, in love, in words, in substances, in celestial events... everything. Magic isn't something of which other things are composed, nor that other things use or generate or manipulate. It's a mode which all things possess.

    The world can be seen as having different modes, or aspects of being. In the physical mode, a chair is a structure composed and ruled by natural laws. In the conceptual mode, a chair is an object for sitting on. In the physical mode, a laugh is a sound wave. In the conceptual mode, a laugh is a communication of joy.

    The magical mode is a third mode, a third aspect that all things have as well as a physical and conceptual aspect. Unfortunately because magic is fictional we can't imagine that aspect or its details. It would be like trying to imagine a new colour.

    Even Muggles have magical properties in this view, it's just that their magical properties do not allow them to use wizardry.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  14. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    I like the term 'magical power' as something that can, unlike the various manifestations of magic that different creatures and beings use, be classified in a more unified sense. It fits with the idea that all living things, to some extent, survive by manipulating the environment to their advantage, and that 'magical power' is simply a more advanced method of doing so, developed according or in response to a creature's specific needs, allowing for virtually infinite variation.

    The idea that all things possess some magical properties is also extremely useful, as it explains the occurrence not only of things like magical plants and animals that only other magical beings can perceive, but of things which magical entities cannot easily manipulate or reproduce as well.

    Hence, while the consciousness of magical beings and creatures would allow them to manipulate anything 'mundane,' and most things 'magical,' (rocks, plants, animal parts, what have you), it would also be limited by the complexities of whatever the properties of the thing in question are. If the magical creature or being using magic can understand or perceive an aspect of the environment and its magical properties in a way that it can utilize or take advantage of, that thing and its properties will respond to it.

    So Muggles, if they do indeed have some magical properties, can extend their will in various ways, and have various magical experiences, which, in comparison to beings like full-blown wizards, only seem to lack magic. Muggles can still imagine various magical realities (novels), still have methods for making things respond to them in ways that seem beyond their immediate purpose (technology), find beauty and meaning in things that would not have such significance unless it was invested in them as a consequence of different conscious processes specific to Muggle consciousness. This would explain why some Muggles perceive magical realities in ways they are unable to process, and why wizards can apply various forms of their magic to Muggles. The genetic disadvantage of Muggles is that they cannot perceive the same realities in the same way (why the Knight Bus is incomprehensible to them, etc.). But because wizards have a more developed property of 'magical power,' or, in the metaphor of consciousness, 'perception,' they are able to extend their will in ways Muggles cannot, making Muggle-like use of a wider array of things (wands, cars, etc.).

    Going even beyond that though, there are things whose magical properties are incomprehensible even to wizards, which neatly explains things like the exceptions to Gamp's Law. So because Death, Souls, Love, and so forth are too complex even for the vast majority of wizards to understand, they remain unable to perceive such things in a way that would make those realities and their magical properties accessible to them. Death, even though it is experienced by wizards, is experienced in the same way that Muggles experience the Knight Bus. It is simply beyond their cognitive powers, and so it remains inaccessible to them and their magic in much the same way that wizardry is inaccessible to Muggles.

    tl;dr: Magic is not something that is everywhere, but something living beings with 'magical power' (an aspect of conscious perception) are able to derive from anything they are able to consciously perceive and comprehend? Magical consciousness, because it has the power to invest mundane reality with magic, has power over mundane reality.

    The problem I encounter with this is that the existence of magical substances, plants, animals, etc. implies that existence itself is magical. In this sense, there is nothing that is truly 'mundane,' only things 'less magical' . . . Anything with magical properties beyond the understanding of the magical being is then an exception to that being's capacity to manipulate reality with its magical power. So all things have 'magical properties,' but the ability to make use of said properties, or 'magical power,' I suppose, is a function of consciousness.

    This makes sense with physics being subject to the laws of magic, rather than magic being subject to the laws of physics, I guess?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  15. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    I think magic is actually the body's physical ability to create something through an extra-ordinary creation of energy from the inner core of a person's being.

    At least, that's what I get after reading all of Taure's posts on the subject through the last few years.
     
  16. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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  17. Otters

    Otters Groundskeeper ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I've checked, and it turns out that magic was under the sofa all along.
     
  18. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Magic is a cackling guy with a magnifying glass who observes everything and snaps his fingers whenever someones "casts" a spell. Sometimes he screws around with people and that's how you get AKs rebounding off babies and shit.
     
  19. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Magic is actually an invisible house elf that exists in all places at once. He's the one that casts the magic.
     
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