It is a certainty that the AK does not rip the soul from the body, as otherwise it would have the same effect as the Dementor's kiss. But theres another whole thread devoted to that, so I'm not gonna discuss it here.

I do indeed have a very canon view of magic, as canon, and the views that can be logically extrapolated from it, are all we can base our aguements on.

EDIT: to Avitus, I think I'm understanding where you are coming from, but I still don't see how the concept of an infinite and unquantifiable magic can be reconciled with magical fatigue/exhaustion.

 

I wasn't saying that having a cannon view was bad. It's the only thing that can be backed, thus being the only source that matters.

I was just encorparating other ideas into the cannon view.

You're 100% correct on the AK soul ripping thing though, lapse of brain power and memory their.

 

You do have a very fanon view of magic. You idolise it. You lift it into being something iconic. It isn't, Magic in JKR's world is defined (well as much as you can define the infinite I suppose), most people just don't look hard enough to see it.

What you see magic as, however, is a quantifiable resource, which it is not. Sure in RPGs and Dungeons and Dragons and all the rest of these game oriented fantasy worlds, wizards rely on their "Mana" (a frustratingly retarded concept if you ask me). I simply cannot see Albus Dumbledore downing 'Mana' Potions in the middle of a battle to replenish his magic. It makes no sense unless you're looking at it from a gaming point of view, where it creates a balance between mage and fighter classes.

Edit: To Taure - You need to factor in the Physical aspect of the wizard. The wizard is using the magic which is a part of him (an infinite part), and the physical being will eventually tire, just as one becomes short of breath, or needs to slow down during a jog - the motion/action is degrading on the body. Not to a fatal or harmful extent, but as a physical warning to slow down before the body is harmed.

 

AHA! I have come up with a working theory that reconcilles our ideas somewhat:

Magic is infinite, it has no reserves, pools, cannot increase or run out. Differences in Power are due to differences in the quality of the magic, not due to the amount of magic, as magic is unquantifiable and infinite.

The quality of someones magic can change, such as Nevilles transformation form a near squib to an OK wizard, and Tonk's loss of her metamorph powers. These changes in magical quality seem to stem form emotional changes.

Magical exhaustion/fatigue is not a running out of magic, but when the quality of someones magic falls and becomes so weak that they cannot cast even the weakest spells, even though they are still imbued with this infinite magic.

Proof:

1.Neville never seems exhausted from using magic, but instead simply cannot cast spells that are above his quality of magic. Later in the books, his quality of magic rises due to a change in confidence, and he is able to master spells requiring a greater quality of magic.

2. Harry's patronus training sessions. Harry clealy does not "run out" of magic as he is able to get up and cast the spell again. But he is also feeling exhausted. This exhaustion is caused by the emotonal impact of the Dementors and temporarily weakens the quality of his magic, but when he is cheered up by Lupin ,the quality of his magic is restored and he is able to cast the spell again.

There is probably more proof, such as Tonk's loss of her metamorph ability, and neither Dumbledore or Voldemort being exhausted once their duel is over, but I won't go into detail on those.

EDIT: The magical exhaustion mentioned here is more long term in nature e.g. it took Neville a couple of years to change. An explaination to allow for short term magical exhaustion would be that it isn't caused by any change in the magic of the wizard, but by the strain on the mind of having to concentrate for prolonged periods of time. Using magic takes concentration, so if you use magic over a long period of time, this concentration will begin to slip, and will effect your spells.

 

Someone brought this up already. This is exactly the same as amount but in different words. The magic is good but the quality goes down as you use it. SOme people have better magic. Sounds the same as, Has more magic, runs out, some people have more.

The only difference is they don't get tired they just can't cast spells anymore. It's still a good theory though and actually makes sense as opposed to most of what my theories were.

And if you don't channel magic what do you do to make it happen, it has to come from somewhere and get out the wand in a more refined form somehow.

Here's a conspiracy theory, there are no wizards only magical creatures and the only way somepeople are more powerful than others are there wands. The wand is the only magical thing about people and Albus knows this and sends letters out to random people to go to Hogwarts.

That would make an interesting Short Fic actually. If done by a very good author.

 

While I agree with your magic is unquantifiable and infinite I don't quite agree with your thoughts about the "quality" of magic that makes a difference.

I happen to think that it's the amount of magic the body can handle which creates a difference in people. This is sorta like using drugs(not just illegal ones... any of them in general apply, this could also apply to any kind of stimulant).

People who take too much of it , aka overdosing, have adverse affects to their physical health. Magic could be liken to this, so when a body forces too much magic into its system, it starts to fatigue.

Also when people take a drug or stimulant a lot, they need to take more the next time to get the same effects. You could associate this with the fact that some people have the ability to use higher and more powerful magics, because they can channel more into them without the adverse effects. Although even then the more powerful people can still "overdose" on it resulting in the fatigue like symptons.



EDIT: Also the AK would be harder to use versus LW due to the emotions needed in it.

Accidental magic is the result of intense/extreme emotions which draws to magic.

 

I agree, I suppose. Dumbledore and Voldemort did not appear to use much magic in their duel, and it was cut short with the possession attempt on Harry, I would estimate the entire duel at 5-10 minutes, which is hardly enough time for such powerful wizards to begin to tire themselves. (Please note that I've said "themselves" not "their magic").

I still don't agree with the idea that an infinite magic can be of a higher quality for someone than another person, I hate to sound like a broken record, but I need to make this absolutely clear - You are either a Wizard or you Are Not. Although I guess it could be related to their emotional situation, a sort of mental block against performing at a normal level. Like the fact that i'm really bad at math, I could study at it and work to make the "quality" of my skills better... but I don't because I hate math for being a weak point in my academics.

 

Rereading everyone's posts, it becomes clear that everyone here is trying to apply logic to magic. Magic is by definition illogical and therefore beyond the reach of reasoning.

Using this, we can determine that unless something is specifically told to us by J.K., we can't make any clear conclusions on it

Any laws/theories are really just catered to someone's point of view and how they like magic to be.

So, instead of trying to come to a 'logical' conclusion on magic (which is impossible) I'm going to defend my beliefs on magic.

I never said a wizard would tire after only two minutes of spell casting - just after using many powerful spells over and over again within a short period of time.

It's ridiculous to give a wizard the power of throwing out unlimited Avada Kedavras. Everyone becomes a killing machine.

And it's not pathetic at all to have a wizard with limits- it's a more realistic approach that is far more entertaining. Having unlimited magic is like playing a game with Unlimited Ammo. It's far more entertaining to see a character plan his resources rather than throw them around haphazardly.

And I'm not saying a wizard will get tired after perfoming a levitation spell a hundred times. I figure that the drain is so low on common spells that you regenerate magic faster than you can use it.

I'm saying a wizard will get tired after casting a patronus five to ten times in a row within a five minute period.

 

Oh yeah...... umm.. It's AU, that fixes everything. heh heh.... ugh, no your right, forgot about that.

The whole Your Magic or your not is quite stupid, you can't honestly believe that if Ron practiced everyday for a 100 years he would be half as good as Dumbledore. Some wizards are just more powerful than others, that is supported by cannon.

You don't think Sirius practiced that much do you? He was a supposedly powerful wizard.

Off topic, how did Pettigrew blow up the street and kill all those muggles? He was supposed to be weak, did they say he did it by muggle means? They make a big deal about how Harry shouldn't go after Black 'cause he killed 13 people with one curse.

 

You may believe it's stupid, but it is a fact. It is canon, it was said by JKR herself. Yes some wizards are more powerful than others, because they've practised to be that powerful. Of course Sirius practised, he had to have otherwise he wouldn't have become an Animagus. Pettigrew was an animagus too, this is an advanced human to animal SELF transfiguration, how would he achieve this if he's such a horrible wizard? PRACTISE! He worked hard at it, it took them a few years to complete the transformations, that in itself shows the dedication they had to this magic.

Do everyone a favor and re-read the books. Not Fan-Fiction, you're approaching fangirl-fanatacism with this whole issue. Stop.

 

I haven't read the books in a while no but I'm definatly not approaching this with anything akin to "fangirl-fanatacism, I said some people are more powerful than others, it's said in cannon that Pettigrew was not as "good" a wizard as Sirius or James, I think it's in POA.

I also think I may have worded it slightly wrong, by "power" I meant magical ability.

Some people are just better at magic than others. Like how some kids are naturally good at drawing and some at sports. Different people are better at different kinds of magic. Not every wizard is the same.

 

This is exactly what I'm saying, they aren't as good at magic. Not because they are less "powerful" or dont have as large a "magical core", but because they don't have the mental discipline, or thought patterns that allow them to use the magic to its full extent.

 

O.K. lol, I thought you were saying all wizards are born the same it's just whoever works the hardest is the best.

I'd have to say this is the best and simplest solution that even fangirls can understand. This is definatly how magic will work in my story.

 

This is also true. You are either a Wizard or you are not. Within wizards, some do not study as hard (due to incompetence, insecurity, lack of interest or whatever) and thus are not as "good" at wizarding as others are, and herein lies the "power" difference. It really isn't a difficult concept.

 

I'm not saying it is, your obviously a wizard or not, they all access the same magic, some wizards can just use it better than others.

 

JKR contradicts herself when she says "...you either have magic or you do not."

Squibs can resist Anti-Muggle charms and use magical items, so it's not as if he simply doesn't have magic. He has some or, depending on your point of view, does not have the full predetermined ability to manipulate magic.

So, having magic doesn't make you a wizard - you must have enough of it or, depending on how whether you believe in wizards being born with a renewable source of magic or unlimited, at least be able to channel enough to use a wand.

This alone proves that some wizards are more magically able by birth.

Using the "All hard work/discipline" logic, it would be possible for Filch to study enough to become Dumbledore grade. This is obviously not possible.

So there goes that theory.

 

Like I said, he is magically exhausted after his first good patronus. The others were wisps, this one actually held off the Dementor. Also, after that one, he is too tired to do another. He offers too, but is given chocolate and sent back.

 

Why tired wizards arent able to cast spells?

Well, had you tried to write, when tired or stressed? What would happen, when you would try to cast spells in these conditions? It would go wrong. So if writing or reading can tire you, why do you think casting spells wouldnt?