@Luckylee: Not strong enough to shut down assassins the way they should be able to, which means they don't matter as much as they should.

Zed and Yasuo in particular need to be shat on. SHAT on. Riot needs to olaf BOTH of them.

Hyper super mobile ultra bursty assassins who also happen to have good poke? NO.

@Hugplx: Yeah, LB too. She's OP as shit. I spent a few games playing as her. Her hyper super mobility, chainable (heh) CC and retarded burst are all just as super stupid as AD assassins.

Can't think of a single assassin who isn't retarded in some fashion. Maybe Talon, but he already got nerfsticked.

And yes, if a champion is SHUT DOWN they should STAY that way barring incredible luck and skill.

Not like, for instance, katarina. Who only needs one or two kills to suddenly be un-fucking-stoppable.

Not like, for instance, Zed, who only needs one or two kills to become the god of goddamn death.

Not like, for instance, Yasuo, who can still assassinate people who are fed even if he's 0/4/2 and has 60 cs at 20 minutes (I've seen it, more than once).

Not like, for instance, LB, who only needs the tiniest lead to become a monster who can fuck ANYONE at ANY TIME.

Not like, say, Yi, who is quite possibly the most scary hypercarry in the game when he's fed.

Not like, say, Rengar, who you don't get to see coming who can delete any non-tank despite REPEATED nerfs.

Not like, say, Khazix, who can leap around your entire team, getting himself triple and quadra kills with retarded ease if he gets even a bit ahead.

Not like, say, Akali, who will fuck your entire team while bouncing from carry to carry like an unstoppable dervish of death.

Together, all these champs mean that you may as well not even BOTHER playing squishy, immobile APCs, because there will nearly ALWAYS be one or two in your game with their stupidly shitty OP eyes set on you.

All of them need to be tuned down. All of them.

 

Assassins snowball well. Something easy to do in soloq, where people don't do the teamwork/ ward thing.

I mean, I don't need an assassin champ to do that. I can't have the same amount of juketastic fun though.

 

The problem is that it's too easy for them to snowball. The nerfs that need to happen are to two things. Mobility, and Base Damage. That way, it's harder for them to snowball, but if they do get ahead through NOT being an OP fuck and actually earning it, they still scale really damn well.

The juketastic fun is part of what makes then beyond stupid. Take Zed for instance. Played well, he can basically engage for free and nearly always get away. His hyper scaling means that even if he doesn't get FED, he'll still be a late game monster, and his Ult allows him to fuck people without even /being there/ anymore.

Also, he's got good poke and farm and wave clear. DUMB. No assassin should be able to poke you from that far away, that reliably, that often. He should have to /engage/ if he wants to do good damage.

 

I'm not sure if we're just watching different stuff, but I see Bruisers played all the time. Unless you consider Irelia, Gnar, Rek'Sai, Jarvan, Wukong, Jax and Xin Zhao not Bruisers, which have all seen strong play in solo que and have been represented in the Challenger and Chinese series I've watched.

Come now. There's obviously great hyperbole going on here. If these champions were as grossly unbalanced as you say, it would be reflected at least somewhat in their win ratios. Most Assassins used at the moment hover around 48%-52% depending on the region and length of measurement. While there can indeed be frustrating moments playing against them, there is obviously paths to victory against them.

I don't agree that Assassins cannot be shut down. There are certain comps where they are dangerous no matter what (those that lack both tankiness and hard CC) but that's hardly just the Assassin's fault. Despite what people would have you believe, not even Zed can one shot squishies with no items. There is time to crap on their day. That being said, it shouldn't take a miracle for a comeback. It just needs misplays by the enemy team that can be exploited, as is usually the case.

Now I don't disagree that some of them have tools they should not have. Zed's early game wave clear is absurd for an energy based champ, which allows him to force traditional mages to expend precious mana or let him roam. Akali gains absurd sustain for building core items and is compounded by pseudo resets and low cooldowns, which allows her to have incredible staying power in team fights.

Mobility is a trickier issue. I do feel that mobility is under budgeted on many classes, but Assassin's are the most natural place for it. What else would you give them? Range? Tankiness? Hard CC? God no. Mobility affords counter play on both sides.

Assassin's are frustrating to play against. There are times where there was nothing you can do. This is part of the fantasy. It has been this way in pretty much every game with the archetype. But they are not the unstoppable monsters League players would have you believe.

 

Dunno, I struggle more against fed Sions tbh, lol

 

Fen's double stack Akali would like a word with you.

 

That's because Sion is the best.

 

I actually agree. One of the reasons I drifted away from Assassin champs over time. Screw that tanky bastard.

 

Except I've seen Fed assassins RIP through fed versions of all of these, repeatedly. If a Fed Zed comes up vs a Fed Irelia, I'm generally gonna see the zed win.

Don't even get me started on Akali (or LB). The only champ on that list I haven't seen her absolutely destroy, no matter how fed, is Rek'Sai, and that's because Rek'Sai has most of the problems all assassins have, but is ALSO a bruiser. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, you CAN win against them, but generally because their team isn't good enough to work around the advantage they give. A fed Akali may not carry her team to victory, but that's most often because her team fails to capitalize properly. That doesn't make her any less retardedly unfun to play against.

You used Zed as an example in this one, and I find that funny. Mostly because he's both ridiculously difficult to gank in lane (FUCK YOUR SHADOWS) and because he's one of the most forgiving to misplays (See: Fuck Your Shadows). The same can be said of LB. Often enough, they screw up and they still survive because 'LOL I'M MORE MOBILE THAN A FUCKIN' FIGHTER JET, MORE DAMAGE, TOO'.

Heh, yup. +1.

Nothing. Just take it away. Mobility Creep in this game is getting pretty damned stupid. It really bones anyone who isn't mobile.

The fantasy is ass, it's toxic, anti-fun for their opponents, and generally shitty design. 'LOL, lets make a character DESIGNED to frustrate and piss off everyone else through their ridiculous mobility and damage, hahahaha. man, that'll be great!'

No, they're not unstoppable monsters, but they are way too powerful compared to other archtypes. They lose generally because an Assassin, no matter how unfun they are, is rarely a true Carry. They just don't have the sustained damage output (most of the time) to truly carry a game. It's the same problem my favorite champion, Viktor, has. They're still stupidly powerful and stupidly dangerous and stupidly mobile.

If they weren't such incredible threats to be dealt with, you'd see a lot more champions like Brand or Lux or Viktor. But you don't, because all you need to ruin someone's day on one of those champs is to pick an assassin, and the difficulty spike for the player on the immobile APC (and the ADC, and the non-tanky support) goes way, way the fuck up.

Assassins are anti-fun for everyone who isn't playing an assassin or on their team. That's their problem. I much preferred League of Bruisers.

I play a lot of soloqueue, mostly because I tend to rage and don't like to inflict that on people I'm on friendly or cordial terms with, my favorite lane is mid (though I can also Top and ADC), let me tell you the most common champions I see, by FAR.

Zed, Yasuo.

Over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Zed, Yasuo, Zed, Yasuo, Zed, Yasuo. Invariably, they don't give a crap when I push their lane and take their tower, they're down bottom getting a double kill (nice job listening to MIA pings, botlane). They don't care when I harass them very well during their weak level 1-2, when 3 hits, they start shitting all over me. They don't care that I shut them down for the first ten minutes, all it takes is one mistake and then they're snowballing.


It's different, in high ranked challenger games and in the LCS. Because an assassin's counter is Teamwork. But LCS and Challenger (and Diamond/Master) games are a tiny, tiny percentage of all the games out there being played. People can be dismissive all they want, but fucking over anyone who ISN'T in one of those categories of play is not good game design, and it's going to remain that way in my eyes until Assassins aren't stupidly popular because of their stupid power.

Edit: This is especially true in normal blind pick, be it Team Builder or non. When you say 'hey, I feel like playing some Lux/Viktor/Anivia/Brand/Xerath/Ashe Mid/AP Trist Mid', the second thought is immediately 'Do I feel like risking running into Zed/Yasuo/LB/Katarina'? Because you will. A lot. And if you pick one of those champs into them your options are three (or four):

1) Get Raped, Son. Enjoy being outdamaged by someone who is far more mobile than you are, too.
2) Snoozefest farm lane while they roam and get kills around the map. Yaaay for mobility creep. I can't keep up when they roam!
3) A bad player, now you have a chance at having a fair matchup against that champion.
4) Please Mr. Jungler, can I have more ganks? Please? PLEASE? I promise I'll be good, I won't ask for blue buff or anything, just please more ganks. (This option is risky, because the best time to gank most assassins is early, but that's generally when the bruisers and tanks of the jungle are squishiest, meaning often enough they just get killed anyway).

 

I struggle with having this debate, because I invariably get to the point where I want to say ' don't feed them' and ' don't let them farm' and feel like one of those annoying 'get better scrub' aholes.

Frankly though, that's what you need to do. Your jungler needs to gank, their opponent needs to win in lane, if they can't, you need to help them.

The game isn't balanced around 1v1, otherwise tank ww would be unstoppable. Assassins are there for picks. They only get those if you're out of position or you don't ward.

Oh, and Zhonyas > Zed :3

 

Don't feed them? They Roam Bot/Top.

Don't let them farm? To do that you have to deny them, and to deny them you have to get dangerously close to them. Or They Roam Bot/Top.

Asking a jungler for ganks is similarly unreliable. Often enough they gank at the wrong time, or give them a kill, or just don't gank your lane because bottom looks more juicy.

Zhonyas > Zed, but that means you have to A. Rush it and B. Deal with him until you get it and C. He just roams Bot/Top and wrecks them, instead.

Saying what amounts to 'get better at the game' is not a valid argument. Everyone wants to get better at the game. But skill is only one factor in a matchup.

 

If your teammates are unreliable and you overextended without wards, you'll struggle no matter what the champion.

And you should always rush Zhonyas vs AD mid if you're ap. Unless you get a few early kills.

 

I think WD needs to be introduced to the doublestacks.

 

I can't FORCE my teammates to buy wards.

Also, yeah, but being forced to rush an item with no mana regen and no cdr can really screw several champs over.

I know what it is. It's abusing Akali's already OP stats. It's as stupid as the rest of Akali is.

 

No, you can't unfortunately. It's the reason why those assassins are fed though.

 

Play Mordekaiser and watch Akali transform from a dangerous assassin into a tasty treat that just keeps coming back to you.

 

Just Poppy it up.

 

And get constant-ganked again and again and again. No thanks.

Horrible early game scaling, the time most dangerous in soloque, nothx.

Which doesn't make them any less shitty of a champion class. For instance, I just lost a game because I was too busy destroying Vlad top to keep my teammates from constantly feeding a Talon, after some nooblord picked fucking ANNIE INTO TALON.

I even warned bottom 'Ward up, he'll roam, you're slow and squishy'. Of course, they didn't. I reminded them again. They still didn't.

By the time I could leave lane and tank reliably, he already had seven kills. So the fact that I smashed Vlad's face in, repeatedly, even after Yi gave him a free damn kill, didn't matter. Talon could delete half my team before I could tank long enough for them to put out any damage.

I lost the game before that because our mid riven went 6/16. I crushed the hell out of Teemo, but after laning was over he still got an assload of kills on my dumbass team.

Lost the game before that because I had a Xin last picked top despite the fact that I picked it way before he did. Of course, I had troubles connecting, and when I got back he refused to give up lane. Oh, and the Mid Leblanc who got CRUSHED by Mid Riven. LEBLANC. CRUSHED BY RIVEN. WHAT THE FLYING DUCKDICKS.

So I went bot to support draven, and xin started feeding Jax.

I CANNOT CARRY THESE NOOBS.

I would LIKE to get better at the game. But that requires playing against players who are of a higher class than the ones I'm playing now. I'm better than they are pretty reliably, but not good enough to carry teams full of moron feeders.

 

Bye 1 ward on each back. Place one on each side of the river, slightly in enemy jungle, and be gank-free forever.

 

Eh, I do that, and they come from the little paths on the side of the river. Warwick especially.