It was an (educated) guess on Dumbledore's part. He knew from Tom Riddle's memories how many Horcruxes he intended to make and that Harry's murder would have been the sacrifice for the final Horcrux. He simply guessed that as Voldemort was desperate that he would have used Nagini to ensure that he still had at least one Horcrux.

Dumbledore is not infallible, he has already shown conflicting ideas on Horcruxes by saying that there is a connection allowing for control but that the castor does not feel the destruction of the Horcrux.

 

So if Voldemort purposelessly turned someone into a horcrux (A true horcrux, not a psuedo horcrux) how much control would he have over them?

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Those aren't conflicting ideas.

 

Never been done before - to our knowledge, could have been done in the past but it is not mentioned in the books specifically - so saying anything would be guesswork at best.

How so?

 

Please try to think about what you're saying.

A guess is independent of the knowledge base used to make that guess.

I know that Ferraris cost a lot of money. If I see someone driving a Ferrari, I can guess that they are rich. I may be wrong: the driver may be a valet. But my guess being potentially wrong does not make the original knowledge base wrong ("Ferraris are expensive" is true, even if this driver isn't rich).

Similarly, Dumbledore knows that the master soul can control its horcruxes. If he sees a master soul exerting control over something, he can guess that the thing is a horcrux. He may be wrong: the thing may be controlled by another means. But his guess being wrong does not make the original knowledge base wrong ("Horcruxes can be controlled by their master" is true, even if this controlled thing is not a horcrux).

It just so happens that in this case, both Dumbledore's knowledge base and his guess were correct.

Basic logic. I shouldn't have to be making posts like this -_-

Edit:

Not possible, from what we know about horcruxes. Hermione tells us that a horcrux is identical to its container; there is no separation between the soul and the container like there is with humans. You stick a human with a sword, and the body dies by the soul isn't touched. A horcrux, on the other hand, is a piece of soul destroyed with its body.

So the method by which a horcrux occupies a container and the method by which a human soul occupies a container are fundamentally different. As far as we know, the only way to combine them is to implant a soul fragment into a person (Harry), but that person doesn't become a proper horcrux, where the body is identical to the soul fragment. The soul fragment remained distinct from Harry's body, though still tied to it.

 

You are the only one who thinks this is a conflicting idea. Being able to control it doesn't mean he is aware of what it is doing or that it is moving about by itself. It could just be limited to contact. He doesn't have to be able to control it from half way around the world.

 

Don't be so condescending, you haven't even proven your theory on the Master!Soul controlling the Horcruxes.

It was said that the connection between castor and Horcrux was what allowed the control, hence the contradiction occurs as if the castor cannot tell the status of the Horcrux through said connection how can they use the connection to exert control.

 

I have word of JKR and Dumbledore. I'm not sure what more you want. It seems to me that you're simply in denial because you're irrationally attached to your pet theory.

He doesn't even have to control it in an active sense. Merely being the same soul may be enough. Since the diary is merely a fragment of Voldemort's soul, attacking or usurping the master soul is an act of self-harm. Since Voldemort is not the suicidal type, this is not something you'd think the diary would choose to do. No active control necessary: it's simply in a horcrux's nature to seek the interests of its master soul.

Supported by JKR yet again:

So much bad logic here, some of which has already been explained.

Firstly, you're equating separate directionalities. You're using the lack of spontaneous information from the horcrux to Voldemort to say that Voldemort cannot use the connection in the other direction.

Secondly, you're equating different types of information. Just because there's no constant stream of awareness of continued existence does not mean that other types of information cannot be passed. Though Harry is not a horcrux, the connection between Harry and Voldemort is much like one, and we know that their connection, at least, can be used as a vehicle for legilimency.

Thirdly, you're equating information with other magical processes. That one type of information cannot pass through the master-horcrux connection in one direction does not mean the connection lacks other magical effects. We know of at least one such effect: the bond which ties the master soul to life.

Fourthly, you're equating one type of control with another. Control does not necessarily mean giving of orders. House Elves, for example, are under a general duty to their masters, even when not under specific orders. If the horcrux is by nature subservient to the master soul and amenable to its desires, then no active control need be passed along the connection.

For your argument to work you must demonstrate the canonicity of all four of these identities. Given that I have given several counter-examples from canon, this will be hard.

 

Proof? Please can you show me how JKR supports this.

Seeing as how Tom Riddle had already started calling himself Lord Voldemort by this time then yes, gaining a corporeal body would have made him stronger.

 

Please read up; I've quoted the passage twice in this thread already.

Clearly an unreasonable semantic dodge: the language of the question made a distinction between diary Tom Riddle and Voldemort; JKR followed that distinction.

 

If you're referring to the below then I don't see where it supports your theory. Honestly, it's 12.41am here in the UK and I might not be really looking at it (if that makes sense) so if you can see it please point it out to me.

As Tom says in CoS, Lord Voldemort is his past, present and future. If you wanna call that a semantic dodge, feel free.

 

Why couldn't a human become a horcrux in the same way a snake can? I'm not understanding this answer. I do understand that Harry was not fundamentally a true horcrux, but I do not think that means it is impossible for a human to become a true a horcrux. Existing objects and animals have been shown to become horcruxes.

 

It's been a while since I've read the books and this may be from a fanfiction but isn't the reason why Voldemort can't feel his horcruxes being destroyed because of the state his soul is in from creating so many?

 

According to Dumbledore yes.

 

Taure: Well, with you pulling JKR's Master Soul quote, it seems I have to concede. Still don't like it. And if I wanted to be a dick, I would point out that inconsistencies in HP aren't anything new and that's what led to my interpretation. But I won't

And I'm not changing the story I'm writing, because that would completely wreck the premise. Canon can be canon, I don't always stick to it.

 

RE: Taure

I have actually found a quote by JKR from PotterCast's JK Rowling Interview that implicitly supports your theory, if you had used this quote rather than the one you did then the discussion would have been over before it even started.

So from this quote we can take that each soul shard will try to re-join with the Master!Soul, explaining why each soul shard attempts to attach itself to the person currently in possession of the Horcrux containing that soul shard (as seen in CoS and DH) as it wants to be whole again.

 

Concerning the earlier discussion about Voldemort controlling Diary!Tom, would Voldemort, after Diary!Tom gets a body, not be aware the Diary now has one at first and could only control his Horcrux once he's made aware, or would he instantly know and be able to control Diary!Tom the moment he gets a body? (I assume he wouldn't be aware after it happened for the same reason he isn't aware his horcruxes are destroyed, but I could be wrong.)

Also a side question, but could Diary!Tom even try to remove the connection if he wanted to (I assume he would try if he could)?

 

I suspect he couldn't remove the connection. Diary!Tom is literally the same soul as Voldemort.
Also, I don't think he's capable of wanting to remove the connection. He is essentially Voldemort. Voldemort's interests are his interests. It would be like one of my arms deciding to betray me, simply ridiculous.

 

On topic: A key question in the matter of Diary!Tom is what would happen to the diary itself if the body it could create gained corporeality. My guess would be that the piece of soul would still reside in the diary, and the body would be subservient to the piece of soul within, despite human appearance, until the "master soul" came and possessed it. It's probably just a ready-made receptacle for possession created by the real adolescent Voldemort who wanted to make sure he still had a body ready somewhere in case he "died" and became a wraith. As much as I'd like to see Diary!Tom up to independent shenanigans, he probably doesn't have free will.