Hello. So, I'm new to this forum, and I have a few questions regarding Dumbledore. The questions I'll ask probably have been answered already, but I've searched the past forums for the last few hours and couldn't really find them. So, I'm sorry if there is something similar to this already on the site, but these questions have been bugging me for quite a while, and I'm hoping that one of you will be able to answer them.

Before I start, I'll just make it clear that I'm not a Dumbledore hater/basher and that I'm not getting confused between the canon and of all the Dumbledore!Bashing fanfiction out there. I do like Dumbledore, and I think that he is a genuinely good character that cares for Harry and for the good of Magical Britain. I also understand that Dumbledore is not perfect and is human (capable of making mistakes). But there are a few questions that I'm confused with, and I would really appreciate it if any one of you can explain them to me.

1) What's up with all the "protections" around the Philosopher's Stone that Dumbledore has on Harry's first year?
So Dumbledore's protections for the Philosopher's Stone (an incredibly rare and powerful magical artifact that could be sought after by other less-than-friendly people) consisted of a Cerberus, a magical plant, a troll, a flying key, a chess game, and a logic puzzle? All of which could be solved by a couple first years. In fact, it is as if the obstacles were planned out to fit each of Harry’s companions. The Logic Puzzle for Hermione, the chess game for Ron, and the flying key for Harry. And, by coincidence, Hagrid gives Harry a wooden flute, which just happens to be useful against the Cerberus (HP and the PS Pages 159, 217, 221). I admit that Dumbledore's use of the Mirror of Erised was genius, but was all of that necessary? Couldn't he have just put it in his drawer and put a Fidelius charm (or any other protective charm) over it?

2) "You got there? You got Hermione's owl?"
"We must have crossed in midair. No sooner had I reached London than it became clear to me that the place I should be was the one I had just left. I arrived just in time to pull Quirrell off you." (HP and the PS Page 239)
Why does Dumbledore fly to Hogwarts once he is aware of Harry’s danger (and, by extension, the Philosopher’s Stone)? Dumbledore is one of the only people who could use a portkey in or out of Hogwarts (as shown in HP and the HBP). If not, he could have used Fawkes to teleport him like Book 5, or he could have apparated to Hogsmeade and then gone to Hogwarts. So, why did he choose to fly out of all the things he could have done?
Some people said that this was because the ideas of apparition/fawkes/portkey/etc came after HP and the PS. But JKR planned out the Harry Potter world for 5-8 years before she published the first book. So, I highly doubt that she would have created a plot hole like this.

3) In the CoS, why doesn’t Dumbledore know that the Slytherin’s beast is a basilisk? Hermione, a second year muggleborn, was able to deduce this, so why didn’t Dumbledore? Dumbledore had decades of years of experience in the magical world than Hermione, and he was there for the first ‘Heir of Slytherin fiasco’. Yeah, Hermione is extremely intelligent for her age, but Dumbledore was considered one of the greatest minds in the entire Wizarding World. So, how did he miss it?

4) This is a minor one. In the GoF, after Harry’s name came out of the goblet, Dumbledore asks him, quote,
“Did you ask an older student to put it into the Goblet of Fire for you,” said Professor Dumbledore, ignoring Snape. (HP and the GoF Page 232)
Does this imply that if Harry asked an older student to do it for him, it would have actually worked?
Barty Crouch Jr., under the guise of Moody, was able to put Harry’s name in the goblet, despite the fact that 1) Harry was underage and 2) Harry did not consent to enter the tournament. So, does that mean that any students’ names could have been put in the goblet, with or without consent, after passing the age line?

5) Not exactly about Dumbledore, but about the Hogwarts faculty (which includes Dumbledore) in general. After Harry’s name came out, students start wearing “Potter Stinks” badges. Why doesn’t anybody stop them from doing so? This is blatant bullying, and should not be acceptable in a school. And yet, not a single professor or school authority stops the students from doing so.

6) “For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore’s eyes.“ (HP and the GoF Page 585)
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that this is a foreshadow to the Deathly Hallows, where Dumbledore explains that Harry’s blood in Voldemort allows him to go back and only have the horcrux in him destroyed. This means Dumbledore knew that Harry was a horcrux prior to GoF, most likely after the CoS, where Harry confirms the existence of Voldemort’s horcruxes. This also means that, as confirmed in the Prince’s Tale in the DH, Dumbledore knows that Harry must die to ensure Voldemort’s death. And I believe that Dumbledore knew that Harry would sacrifice himself, at the end, to save his friends and those he loves (anybody who knew Harry would know this, since Harry has the “saving people thing”). So, I’m confused by Dumbledore’s intentions in all this. If anyone could explain, I would appreciate it very much.

So, these are a few questions that I’ve been confused with. If anyone could answer some, or even all, of them, I would be very thankful.

 

Three threads in which Dumbledore's motivations, knowledge, abilities and character have been discussed in detail in 2015:

http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=27800
http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=27939
http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=29189

A lot of the questions have obvious out-of-book reasons, such as JKR not having invented apparition at the time she wrote PS, the Philosopher's Stone trials being as they are because the target age range of Harry Potter readers was much younger for PS than for later books, etc. In-universe rationalisations can be found for these things, but it should be remembered that this is what they are: rationalisations to render the books consistent when they were written in an inconsistent tone.

 

But JKR planned Harry potter for 5-8 years. She conceived the idea in 1990, and published it in 1997. She also had most major plot devices and ideas in her mind when she wrote the first book. So, wouldn't she have already planned out such things as apparition already? I mean, one of the first things that comes up to most people's minds when they think of magic is teleportation.
I've already looked into the three forums previously. While they somewhat answered question 6, I couldn't find answers for questions 1-5. Let's take questions 1 and 2 out, since, as you said, they could be because of JKR not planing ahead (doubtful, since she planned most things out). I'm still stuck with questions 3-5. Could you answer them separately?

 

The thing you have to remember about JKR is that she thinks in terms of character, not world. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of Pottermore material is character profiles, not details on the HP world.

When JKR said she had HP planned in advance, she meant she had the character outcomes planned in advance. With respect to worldbuilding, it's clear that she adds ad hoc elements as required, as she goes along.

 

Yeah. It's rather telling that we don't even get explanations for things like how the Ministry can detect underage magic until the last book in the series.

 

1/2) As an in-universe answer goes, my theory is that Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to know where the stone was. He knew Voldemort would go after it, and he didn't want Voldemort to tear up the school or endanger students looking for it, hence the third floor corridor. He made the challenges weak enough to not seriously endanger students, while still being time consuming to deal with, as a delaying tactic. Dumbledore knew Voldemort wouldn't make an attempt while Dumbledore was around to defend it, and was betting on his ability to distract Voldemort long enough for him to realize the trick and return to deal with him. Harry fucked that up by interfering, though Dumbledore couldn't blame him for that, because it was well intentioned.

Of course, that theory has holes, but they all do. If Rowling was so careful with world building, then how did Hagrid get to the island in the beginning of the book? I enjoy the mental image of him making like Mary Poppins, but it's unlikely.

3) Maybe he did. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any real indication otherwise, and it makes no difference to the story. Which is worse to tell people, "There's someone or something going around petrifying people; we're working on it." or "There's a huge goddamn basilisk somewhere and we have no idea what to do about it."

4) It could have, but in the book it only worked because Junior confundus'd the shit out of it, if I'm remembering correctly. Consent is unclear.

5) You're attributing modern values (in a case where most people would have told you to fuck off with them twenty years ago) to a secular society with a culture more then a hundred years out of date that teaches teenagers how to make roofies.

 

ad 3) There is plenty of ways to handwave this. Maybe there were good reasons were really surprising? Maybe there are thousands of magical creatures (Hagrid produced brand new one just as small project) and she was also lucky to encounter it earlier than Dumbledore?

 

1) It was one of the very first threads I made years ago. To put it mildly, what else could he have done? Apart from the Fidelus charm, there are no wards, or defensive spells that could protect the stone. Using canon only magic, I'd like to see you do better. Also, the mirror kicked arse, Voldemort, or 99.99% of people would never beat it.

2) He had no idea a emergency was happening, maybe he fancied a broom or animal ride to clear his head.

3) Who's to say he didnt think it was? He probably had a list of 3-4 animals capable of it as one of the guys in the books mentions several capable of petrification. But there was also the case that there was no monster, only a dark wizard. Also Hermione had information Dumbledore didnt.

4) It might of got the name in the cup, but it wouldnt have been choosen, the Goblet is obviously capable of rational thought, having someone sneak your name in through a loop hole is hardly showing the qualities of a champion.

5) Different society, different rules. Maybe Flitwick did when he saw them, but Snape sure as hell wouldnt.

6) He already knew Harry and Voldemort were bonded by the Horcrux, but by Voldemort furthering the bond even more by using Harrys blood, Dumbledore saw the seed of his downfall. Harry was never going to beat Voldemort in a fight. It was love, his soul, and his friends and family that would do it. It was Dumbledore revealing in the fact that Voldemort still after all these years, did not understand the power he knows not.

 

Or heck, he might have picked a slower method of transportation just to make all the people at the Ministry wait for him, if he thought they just needed him for some government BS he didn't want to bother with.

 

'Opens forum. Sees another thread started by someone I never heard and it has Dumbledore on the title, sighs and prepares for a shit storm. Sees that person is reasonable, doubts are reasonable and can be answered by not just saying "you're an idiot. stop being an idiot." Dies of shock'

Personally I suggest reading the threads, you will understand Dumbledore much better and will have more than complete answers.

 

I'm not implying that I'm more intelligent than Dumbledore or anything. As I admitted earlier, the mirror was a stroke of genius. However, I'm just saying that the other "protections" around the stone (the devil's snare, flying keys, chess game, etc) weren't that efficient, seeing how several first-years were able to go through them. I admit that I don't know everything about the HP World, but surely there would be better methods than a chess game?

Hogwarts, while the exact location is not known, is located in Scotland, whereas the Ministry is in London. That's around 400-600 miles, depending on where exactly Hogwarts is. Dumbledore flew 400-600 miles there and back, just because he "fancied a broom ride"? Not so sure.

On the way back, he didn't know that there was an emergency, but he did know that something was wrong.

"We must have crossed in midair. No sooner had I reached London than it
became clear to me that the place I should be was the one I had just
left. I arrived just in time to pull Quirrell off you."
"It was you."
"I feared I might be too late." (HP and the PS Page 239)

By this passage, we can see that Dumbledore knew something was off, and that he was needed at Hogwarts. So, even if he rode 400-600 miles on the way there to get fresh air, why would he fly 400-600 miles back when he knew something was wrong?

---------- Post automerged at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 PM ----------

Point taken.

I read your thread, "Understanding Dumbledore" in more detail. I think I understand Dumbledore's thoughts/intentions much more clearly. Thank you very much.

---------- Post automerged at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------

That makes sense. I was also wondering why Dumbledore would announce to everyone in the school that the third floor corridor would result in a tragic, terrible death. Your theory explains that as well. Thank you!

 

MoltenCheese, it's not that hard to figure out a possible reason Dumbledore could have had for protecting the Stone with relatively simple challenges rather than locking it in an adamantine case and dropping it in a volcano.

Dumbledore likes puzzles. He is a thinking man.

So, he has his colleagues contribute to the Stone's protections. You go from a big dog to a killer-plant, to flying keys, to a chess game, to a mountain troll, to a logic puzzle. All fun and games, right? Lulls you right into thinking what Dumbledore wants to you to think.

"This is easy, what was the old prune thinking?"

And then you hit a brick wall.

Why would you be looking for the Stone in first place? Because you want the Elixir of Life and mountains of gold, you greedy fucker. You can stare at that mirror for hours, days, years on end and the Stone will remain just as far out of your reach as it was the moment you entered the dungeon, because the truth is, Dumbledore is smarter than you and he was ahead of you every step of the way.

If Harry hadn't got himself and his friends involved, Dumbledore could've kicked back on a lawn chair on a tropical beach somewhere, sipping margaritas, not giving a single fuck, because Voldemort couldn't comprehend the solution to what is, in my opinion, the greatest puzzle in the whole series.

 

Brilliant explanation! Didn't think about it that way at all. Thank you. Can't do a thumbs up because I'm still a muggle or something. Kudos!

 

Ha. Fucking inferior muggles.

 

Early Installment Weirdness. The early books were whimsical tales for children, and Rowling simply didn't figure out most of the magic back then. I think the Doylist explanation is the only truly valid one in this case. So, the books were meant for children, and an obstacle course with giant dogs, murderous plants, giant Chess sets etc. appeals to children's imagination much more than, I don't know, some web of "wards". The broom ride, on the other hand, really has no excuse. She could have just took a minute to give Dumbledore a more viable distraction, like a meeting at the Wizengamot or a sock convention or whatever.

I also like the theory that the Stone in the mirror was just a replica, which in a way mirrors Harry and Dumbledore's excursion at the end of HBP - an obstacle course including dangerous poison with a fake MacGuffin at its end - and was meant to trap Voldemort deep beneath Hogwarts. The theory fails because it doesn't seem like Dumbledore had any trapping mechanism other than the mirror set, but it's certainly a much more reasonable explanation.

Generally, I'd advice you not to look too hard for logic in the books, because it's mostly not there.

 

Voldemort actually figured out the solution very quickly in canon. What is debatable is whether he could have found a way to execute it if Harry hadn't been there: I think given time he could have found a way to beat the mirror, either by arranging another medium or some other way.

 

Did he? Voldemort used Harry because Harry was there, but Quirrellmort had obviously been standing in front of the mirror for a while and had made no progress. Harry's presence might have clued him in that if he couldn't reach the Stone maybe someone else could, but I don't think he actually understood how Harry got the Stone. He just noticed that Harry did.

 

For question 2, it's entirely plausible that "crossing in midair" was just an expression that isn't meant to be taken literally. Because while modern wizards can travel instantaneously, they probably couldn't always, and owls definitely can't, so it could be an expression that carried over. Or maybe wizards still think of themselves as traveling through air when they apparate or use a portkey. Or maybe "We must have crossed in midair" just sounded better to Dumbledore than "I must have just missed it."

 

I suppose that could be the case. But the problem with that is, after this mention, apparition/portkey/etc never gets referred to or expressed as transportation "through air" again in the canon. If such expression did exist and was common, we would have seen it more often in the canon.

I think Taure and Atram Noctem were correct in saying that the first few books were meant for children, and that there are some plot holes because of that (as well as the other out-of-book reasons). Though I think JKR could have just put a few lines saying that Dumbledore was in a middle of a meeting or something like that and solve this little plot hole.

 

I was under the impression that Dumbledore had chosen to fly a Thestral to London in order to annoy Minister Fudge by the delay in his chosen mode of travel. Fudge had been relying on Dumbledore's opinion and influence too much and this was his way of demonstrating 'you can't always get what you want'.

So he literally was flying back when the message sent to him was on its way to London.

Can't recall why I believe that, though.