I haven't found a topic relating to it or at least couldn't find one but I'm curious as to what thoughts are about the creation of a Philosopher's Stone. In HP lore there's no information on it save that it was the only one left. There have been multiple cultures with their own spin on it but most of it comes across as, well, philosophical. It symbolized perfection, enlightenment, and more in eastern cultures had a religious fixture. In those ways it seems more like the person becomes the Philosopher's Stone, the point is to become enlightened and/or perfection.

In the world of Harry Potter however it appears more like what it sounds; it's a stone that grants what the legends say, the most well known being turning things into gold and a long life. And it's not the only one that has ever been created, there were more but apparently destroyed. Not only that but it was said to be the only copy left, which means that there is a recipe to it.

What my question is is what do you do to make the Philosopher's Stone? It seems Alchemy is different than potion making considering it's a separate class in Hogwarts but how so? It sounds like it's a more advanced version of potion making with philosophy involved from using Pottermore but what does philosophy have to do in the creation of Philosopher's Stone in this case? What ingredients are required to make one? The one that comes to mind the loudest is Full Metal Alchemist's version where it's human souls solidified in a red stone. But there's no evidence supporting that in the HP universe.

So, what is DLP's thoughts on what is needed to create the Philosopher's Stone?

 

I like the idea that in order to create life, you must take life. To create something as powerful as the Stone, you need suitable powerful ingredients, such as souls and sacrifice.

 

I like the idea that it was a complete accident, and couldn't be replicated over the years by Nicholas Flamel, because he just doesn't know what he did to make it in the first place, and all his attempts at recreating it have failed.

It becomes more significant if you can limit its number to only one. Otherwise, why not just make more and make the entire wizard world immortal and rich forever?

 

Same here; all power should come at a price.

I read a story once where the Philosopher's Stone was created out of deception. Nicholas and his wife went on a campaign to promote unity and health, and convinced a few hundred wizards who were old and already dying, to freely sacrifice their life in a ritual that would create a powerful artifact, which Nicholas and his wife would use to make many duplicates and spread throughout the world.

But what the participants didn't know, was that the ritual would take their souls and seal them into the artifact, and that Nicholas and his wife would keep the knowledge to themselves.

 

It sounds like if there was any work involving dragon's blood, it was in collaboration with Dumbledore when Flamel was well into his 300's at least.

 

Based on the rarity of bowling books in the Hogwarts library, I'd be inclined to agree.

 

The only fics that I know of that covers the topic is https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=312 Not a very good series, mind you, but I remember reading it awhile ago and some parts stick out as being okay.

 

Well, there is at least an obvious reason to not use it to produce mass quantities of gold, since that would crash the gold market and make gold worthless.

As for not making everyone immortal ... well the common counter-argument would be that mass immortality would be massively disruptive to society. Not to mention it would make whoever owns the Philosopher's Stone/controls the supply of Elixir the de-facto ruler of the wizarding world. After all, they could literally chose who lives and who dies. And as came up with Voldemort, if someone evil gets their hands on the stone it could lead to Very Bad Things.

From what little we know of him in canon, Flamel seems to have been a laid-back guy who wasn't interested in much besides a quiet life of studying alchemy. It'd make sense that he prefers keeping his quiet, comfortable life over possibly reshaping the world and risking his discovery falling into the wrong hands.

 

Gold, ok it would crash the economy. But if you could make it so that nobody would ever die from old age, how would you justify not doing so? The excuse that it would damage the society would not be one many people would be willing to hear from the person who has the ability to stop their family members from dying and chooses not to.

Also, we know almost nothing about Flamel from canon whatsoever. The 3 facts that we know about him are that he helped Dumbledore with Dragon's Blood, he lived for a long time with his wife, and he wasn't afraid of death when his stone got destroyed.

 

I think if the Stone was created in a questionable manner, it would explain why Dumbledore happily broke it and why Nicholas allowed it to be destroyed. The in universe explanation that he was done with life after about 600 years seems does seem strange, but we don't see enough of the Flamels to have a reasonable guess.

Dumbledore never seemed to begrudge the Stone, so either he didn't know how it was created or the method to make it wasn't as horror inducing as one would assume considering what it is capable of.

 

Actual alchemists often used mercury, so it isn't too outlandish to think that magical alchemists used it too.

Apart from that, maybe unicorns blood. Its effects somewhat resemble the Elixir of Life.

 

Well we never actually see the stone'a supposed magical qualities. I've long harboured the idea that it was just a horcrux that Flamel made and, wishing to avoid the negative stigma associated with such a device, constructed the ruse of the Philosopher's Stone.

We know that Dumbledore is all for second chances and there's no reason that Voldemort couldn't have just bought into the hype like everyone else.

It explains why there is only one and why he never shared the secret with anyone else.

 

In contrast to the above, I don't like the idea that immoral acts were involved in the creation of the stone. Not everything has to be "grimdark". The Philosopher's Stone acts as a good foil for Voldemort's desire for immorality. By having a legitimate and moral way to reach immortality, it demonstrates that seeking to extend your life is not evil per se. Rather, what is evil is trying to get there at the expense of others.

Further, alchemy is supposed to be a rather high-minded and abstract area of study... the making of the Philosopher's Stone should reflect that. The key shouldn't be in having some rare ingredient or being willing to perform evil acts. Rather it should be in some great insight and mastery of the subject.

Alchemy was a real thing, and I imagine that alchemy in HP is just like alchemy was in real life... only a) it works and b) wizards have developed the ideas much further than Muggles know about. As such, creation of the philosopher's stone should involve a kind of weird alternative chemistry (not potion's making) and also a spiritual element.

 

I like the idea that alchemy isn't about throwing ingredients together, but rather a philosophical understanding of the ingredients you're using and why they can create whatever you're trying to make. It requires a kind of enlightenment, and the Philosopher's Stone, as the pinnacle of the craft, requires greater understanding then most.

Though if I remember correctly, the Ripley Scroll's instructions on the creation of a Philosopher's Stone involve filtering the ingredients through a dragon's heart, or something. Possibly where Rowling got the idea for the twelve uses of dragon's blood.

And goddammit Taure, your new avatar made me spill my rum.

 

Interesting theory since it walks the line of one of the overarching themes of the series. Since he both seeks to best death (which thematically JKR punishes) but later accepts death as a natural course of events (which thematically JKR esteems).

I still prefer my idea, since there's the poetic echoes of Dumbledore, Grindlewald, Voldemort, the three brothers and Harry tied up in Flamel's story. But I see your point.

 

The simple existence of Flamel as a functionally immortal "good" guy speaks against the idea that Dumbledore's and Harry's acceptance of death is good, and Voldemorts avoidance and fear is bad. It doesn't really fit.

If Voldemort's only goal had been immortality by not dying of old age, trying to get the Stone would have been a much smarter idea. Obviously other concerns dictated that the circumstances would mean death by rebound were more probable than death by old age. If a ghostly Voldemort could break into Gringotts, surely he could have managed to get to the stone at the height of his power with a bit of preparation.

As far as the creation goes, I like the philosophical idea. There's a quote from somewhere mentionend

This would neatly fit into the idea that, once enlightened enough to make the Stone, you would also be able to do other things with Alchemy. The following success in Alchemy would then be misattributed to the stone.

Still, the idea that any such achievement also requires a sacrifice is an attractive one.